EV Charger Installation

[Crumpet]

We’re currently charging our iX3 with the granny charger and, while it’s all working fine, we think a proper charger install is needed.

I spoke to my usual electrician who is coming out in a couple of weeks to do a bit of work and he said if I get the charger he’ll install it for me all in the same day. So a half day of work would become a full day and the install of the charger will be £120 plus ‘a few bits’.

My question is whether this is something a general electrician should find easy? He says he’s fitted a couple but it’s not something he routinely does. I’ve since been researching and it seems like applications to the DNO are required for an install and I’m not sure whether he’ll be doing that. The charger is going to be directly next to the meter box so I’m hoping it’s pretty simple but are there any other items need fitting that he might omit?

I don’t really fancy questioning him about how he’s going to do it so I’m tempted to just say we’ve decided against one and get one through the electricity supplier who should fully know what they’re doing. Unless it really is as simple as running a 32amp feed from the meter box to the charger and calling it job done.

[ashenfie]

I would suggest talking though the installation with him. It not really that complicated to install a charger, bus as you say there are prerequisites . If you’re happy with his work, he might be a better bet than some random., but asking questions is the only way to know.

[SteBrown91]

You will also need to connect the charger to the main incoming feed with a CT clamp so the charger is aware of the load coming into the house.

I have an iX3 and went for a Zappi as I am with Octopus. Switched to Intelligent Octopus Go which I have linked to the Zappi rather than the car. The only issue I have had is you have to tell the charger the % to charge. The car was on 20% battery and I added 80% and the car stopped charging at 97%. I assume its not calulating the charging losses as part of the % to add. So I just make sure now I add +10% than the car needs and its worked fine.

[chrisch77]

SteBrown91 said:

You will also need to connect the charger to the main incoming feed with a CT clamp so the charger is aware of the load coming into the house.

.

A Zappi has the CT clamp (option) as it is part of a range of home energy products that allows it to be used alongside PV generation and storage. Many (most?) EV chargers don’t have any CT capability as they don’t need to see what is going on with the rest of the domestic supply, they simply operate on a timed basis according to the readiness of the plugged in car (and/or can be linked to smart charge scheduling links Octopus IOG).

For the OP, be aware that IF you plan to have solar PV generation and/or home battery storage at any time in the future then this may have an influence on both the choice of EV charger and the way the charger is connected to your electricity supply. For instance, a Zappi charger is quite clever and could sense if solar energy is being exported and then start charging the car. However a dumber charger wired into an existing consumer unit in the house (not its own isolator wired from the meter) could lead to a home battery being emptied without the PV/Battery inverter being able to differentiate between household loads and the car charger load. If this is direction you are the thinking of going then it may be better to have a proper review with a green energy specialist rather than just get a general electrician to wire in the cheapest charger by the cheapest method.

[Mikehig]

Crumpet said:

We’re currently charging our iX3 with the granny charger and, while it’s all working fine, we think a proper charger install is needed.

I spoke to my usual electrician who is coming out in a couple of weeks to do a bit of work and he said if I get the charger he’ll install it for me all in the same day. So a half day of work would become a full day and the install of the charger will be £120 plus ‘a few bits’.

My question is whether this is something a general electrician should find easy? He says he’s fitted a couple but it’s not something he routinely does. I’ve since been researching and it seems like applications to the DNO are required for an install and I’m not sure whether he’ll be doing that. The charger is going to be directly next to the meter box so I’m hoping it’s pretty simple but are there any other items need fitting that he might omit?

I don’t really fancy questioning him about how he’s going to do it so I’m tempted to just say we’ve decided against one and get one through the electricity supplier who should fully know what they’re doing. Unless it really is as simple as running a 32amp feed from the meter box to the charger and calling it job done.

Are there any chargers which enable export to the grid?
If so - and depending on cost - might be worth considering to have the option in future?

[Crumpet]

Thanks all.

I’m in a conservation area so that coupled with being east facing means solar isn’t likely to be an option. I did consider battery storage and charging them over night on the cheap rate but, from my research, it seems that the payback time is uneconomical.

The only reason for batteries was to cover for the ever increasing number of power cuts that we have, but I’m not overly bothered.

Therefore the assumption is that it’s a simple EV charger, I wasn’t even planning on the intelligent Octopus and was just going to set the car system to charge itself between the low-tariff hours. Nothing fancy really.

Aesthetics are important and the cable needs to stow away neatly so I was looking at the Hypervolt 3 and Andersen A?.

So questions is need to ask my electrician are:

- Whether he’s going to contact the DNO
- Whether he will fit it’s own consumer unit
- Whether he’s fitting a CT clamp

Anything else? I have a deep mistrust of trades so it may be better the devil I know with my electrician. I don’t know.

[Crumpet]

Mikehig said:

Are there any chargers which enable export to the grid?
If so - and depending on cost - might be worth considering to have the option in future?

Do you mean like in the future when the car batteries themselves can export to the grid? That would actually be quite useful.

[VeeReihenmotor6]

Half a day sounds good. Octopus took 2 days over 3 months to install mine and there was nothing wrong with my house electrics, only something wrong with the test machine the first fitter used so he couldn't sign it off and I had to wait for the next available slot.

Install is pretty straightforward now I see what they do. I have a standalone fuse box tied into my exisitng setup. The fuse box has a fuse that allows 2 way transfer of electricity i.e. to the car but also from the car to power the house. I don't think the latter part is turned on but it's there should anything change in the future.

[Rough101]

The DNO notification, assuming it’s not on a looped or small supply, can be done within 28 days of installation via ENA connect direct.

If it’s fitted with a CT and set to no more than 60A and everything else being OK, it’s either an automatic or 10 day review and approval.

I’ve no idea how he can quote as he doesn’t know what he needs to connect it and if it needs surge protection etc., unless he knows your place well and it’s just an RCBO into a decent existing consumer unit. Price climbs if you need tails, Henleys, a new consumer with SPD etc.

Ditto, does it need wired back to your hub, does the EVC have a SIM or indeed if you are going to use WiFi, is it strong enough.

And I wouldn’t install without an SPD, you can do this within regs, but you have to get the customer to agree to the risk.

Thankfully the DC sensitive RCD and PEN fault detection are built into most chargers these days.

[Mammasaid]

Watch this, it covers what needs to be done;

[Crumpet]

Rough101 said:

The DNO notification, assuming it’s not on a looped or small supply, can be done within 28 days of installation via ENA connect direct.

If it’s fitted with a CT and set to no more than 60A and everything else being OK, it’s either an automatic or 10 day review and approval.

I’ve no idea how he can quote as he doesn’t know what he needs to connect it and if it needs surge protection etc., unless he knows your place well and it’s just an RCBO into a decent existing consumer unit. Price climbs if you need tails, Henleys, a new consumer with SPD etc.

Ditto, does it need wired back to your hub, does the EVC have a SIM or indeed if you are going to use WiFi, is it strong enough.

And I wouldn’t install without an SPD, you can do this within regs, but you have to get the customer to agree to the risk.

Thankfully the DC sensitive RCD and PEN fault detection are built into most chargers these days.

It doesn’t look to be a looped connection and is running a 100amp fuse. The meter box is about 12 years old now, externally mounted and has a smart meter.

He installed this meter box and the two consumer units running off it so he’s familiar with the layout.

I assumed he would run a new connection from the meter to inside the garage (an easy job as it’s 2m max) then through an SPD to a new mini consumer unit. Then from the new consumer unit back out to the space next to the meter where he’d install the charger.

The only thing I’m clueless about is the CT stuff? Where are they fitted, what do they do and will it be obvious to any electrician?

Here’s a picture of the box….

[Crumpet]

Mammasaid said:

Watch this, it covers what needs to be done;

Excellent video, thank!

[Rough101]

Crumpet said:

It doesn’t look to be a looped connection and is running a 100amp fuse. The meter box is about 12 years old now, externally mounted and has a smart meter.

He installed this meter box and the two consumer units running off it so he’s familiar with the layout.

I assumed he would run a new connection from the meter to inside the garage (an easy job as it’s 2m max) then through an SPD to a new mini consumer unit. Then from the new consumer unit back out to the space next to the meter where he’d install the charger.

The only thing I’m clueless about is the CT stuff? Where are they fitted, what do they do and will it be obvious to any electrician?

Here’s a picture of the box….

CT goes in the meter box, round the main live cable.

Though if he threw that twin and earth that’s in the middle of the box in, I’d get someone else, that’s as rough as a badgers.

[Crumpet]

Rough101 said:

CT goes in the meter box, round the main live cable.

Though if he threw that twin and earth that’s in the middle of the box in, I’d get someone else, that’s as rough as a badgers.

Cheers! Just had a Google and I see what they do now.

Yes, he did do the T&E and I know it doesn’t look great. It was an additional consumer unit and he had to run the cable for it upwards into the loft and across the house. It’s not my line of work so I don’t know how it would be done neatly, I think it would always be a bit of a bodge without major upheaval. I see your point, though - hence me being wary of trades and hence me questioning whether it needed someone with more EV charger experience! At least I know what I’m getting with this one and by the sounds of that video there are plenty of charger installers out there doing it wrong as well.

[Mikehig]

Crumpet said:

Mikehig said:

Are there any chargers which enable export to the grid?
If so - and depending on cost - might be worth considering to have the option in future?

Do you mean like in the future when the car batteries themselves can export to the grid? That would actually be quite useful.

Yes. It's been talked about for many years as a way to back up the grid when wind and solar are running at low outputs. There doesn't seem to be much happening so maybe there's too much devilry in the details? Aiui some cars are equipped for it (V2G) but they need "reversible" wall boxes in order to feed the grid.
Maybe someone who knows more about it can shed some light?

[RichB]

As an aside, my garage is detached and has its own consumer unit which is connected to the main CU in the house. Could the EV charger be connected to the CU in the garage (ideal) or would the cable have to be connected directly to the smart meter?

Edited by RichB on Wednesday 12th March 18:20

[Rough101]

RichB said:

As an aside, my garage is detached and has its own consumer unit which is connected to the main CU in the house The supply and smart meter. Could the EV charger be connected to the CU in the garage (ideal) or would the cable have to be connected directly to the smart meter?

Highly unlikely that the garage CU’s feeder cable is large enough for an extra 32A, plus the CT wiring needs to go the meter unless you want all sorts of DNO Malarkey, so you’re going back there anyway. You need to think about WiFi or data cable too.

[RichB]

Rough101 said:

<clip> You need to think about WiFi or data cable too.

I didn't know about that aspect but it seems it can be fitted with a SIM only card?

Edited by RichB on Wednesday 12th March 18:47

[Rough101]

RichB said:

I didn't know about that aspect. In what respect does an EV charger need WiFi or data cable?

They are controlled through an app to schedule your charging for off peak, or just to turn it on and off to prevent misuse.

Some will also tariff link and if there is grid overcapacity, top the car up when it’s even cheaper.

The CT link is there to make sure you don’t overload your connection to the power company, it monitors the total load and if gets into the upper zone, limits the charge current via the comms to the car.

[Mammasaid]

Rough101 said:

RichB said:

As an aside, my garage is detached and has its own consumer unit which is connected to the main CU in the house The supply and smart meter. Could the EV charger be connected to the CU in the garage (ideal) or would the cable have to be connected directly to the smart meter?

Highly unlikely that the garage CU’s feeder cable is large enough for an extra 32A, plus the CT wiring needs to go the meter unless you want all sorts of DNO Malarkey, so you’re going back there anyway. You need to think about WiFi or data cable too.

Yep, that's what happened to us, we've got a separate CU in the shed, but the charger had to be ran directly from the meter box.