non-Tesla EV charging
Discussion
Hi,
I've had a Model Y for a couple of weeks and am just back from a road trip to the Scottish Highlands from the south of England. I wanted to see what life was like on a road trip with an EV and tbh, with the Tesla network and the integration with the cars computer it was, frankly a piece of cake. At most the car wanted 20 mins, sometimes only 7 mins on 3 stops over 540 miles each way. My family and I needed longer at each stop than the car so we charged more than was required.
I'm interested in what it is like with non-Tesla EVs, prompted by a couple of things:
1) Tesla updates the mapping frequently and the car pre conditions the battery when stopping over at both Tesla and non-Tesla charging spots. How does this work in non-Tesla EVs, do you have to plan yourself where you are going to stop? Does it calculation how long you need to charge?
2) I noticed when I pulled into a supercharger spot with 10% left and the car requiring a 20 min stop (I over charged to 80%) that a couple of BMWs and an ID Buzz were plugged in before I got there and still there after I had to move to save idle fees as I was still eating lunch, and they were still there when I left the car park 50mins after I arrived. Are they really that slow to charge? Surely all 3 owners wouldn't have just left them there incurring idle fees?
One day I'd like to try another brand once settled as am enjoying the EV experience. I also have a model 3 since January but have only used it for local trips.
Pic of the Tesla in the highlands becuase I thought it looked cool with the salt, dirt and backdrop
I have a funeral to attend tomorrow that requires 12 hours of driving (plus charging) to get there are back in day and plan to take the model 3 (standard range LFP).
I've had a Model Y for a couple of weeks and am just back from a road trip to the Scottish Highlands from the south of England. I wanted to see what life was like on a road trip with an EV and tbh, with the Tesla network and the integration with the cars computer it was, frankly a piece of cake. At most the car wanted 20 mins, sometimes only 7 mins on 3 stops over 540 miles each way. My family and I needed longer at each stop than the car so we charged more than was required.
I'm interested in what it is like with non-Tesla EVs, prompted by a couple of things:
1) Tesla updates the mapping frequently and the car pre conditions the battery when stopping over at both Tesla and non-Tesla charging spots. How does this work in non-Tesla EVs, do you have to plan yourself where you are going to stop? Does it calculation how long you need to charge?
2) I noticed when I pulled into a supercharger spot with 10% left and the car requiring a 20 min stop (I over charged to 80%) that a couple of BMWs and an ID Buzz were plugged in before I got there and still there after I had to move to save idle fees as I was still eating lunch, and they were still there when I left the car park 50mins after I arrived. Are they really that slow to charge? Surely all 3 owners wouldn't have just left them there incurring idle fees?
One day I'd like to try another brand once settled as am enjoying the EV experience. I also have a model 3 since January but have only used it for local trips.
Pic of the Tesla in the highlands becuase I thought it looked cool with the salt, dirt and backdrop
I have a funeral to attend tomorrow that requires 12 hours of driving (plus charging) to get there are back in day and plan to take the model 3 (standard range LFP).
My ID3 does choose a charger to stop at and tells you how long you'll need to stop for - I have rarely used it, but when I did it seems to work fine. If anything, it's a bit cautious about how much charge it suggests you put in, but I guess it's better to err on the safe side.
However, being a '23 MY car, it didn't have pre-conditioning, so the charging speed isn't the best. 106kW is the most I've seen it pull when it was a warm day and was at 11% SOC. Later ones do this as part of their navigation system and proposed planning destinations.
However, being a '23 MY car, it didn't have pre-conditioning, so the charging speed isn't the best. 106kW is the most I've seen it pull when it was a warm day and was at 11% SOC. Later ones do this as part of their navigation system and proposed planning destinations.
Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 25th February 17:18
We drove from the South West up to Edinburgh and back (roughly 500 miles each way) early December 2024 in our BMW i4 M50,
Like you we let the car sort everything out and much like your Tesla it told us where to stop and how much charge to add as well as pre conditioning the battery before we arrived at the charging stops,
It was all very easy and stress free with no waiting or issues with broken charges at any of the stops so I would happily do the same again
as far as charging speeds go,
so far I've not found any public charger (even the ultra rapid ones) that get near to the charging speeds our car will accept, so can't really say why you're seeing a difference there,
perhaps they'd all decided to order a big meal while waiting and didn't want to leave until they were finished.
On the continent, things are pretty easy. Chargers everywhere, and on a Hyundai the preconditioning happens either fully automatically (you let the car pick the chargers) or when you add a DC charger as a destination or a tour point. On 2025 models you can also trigger it manually. You can filter the chargers based on the vendor and/or speed. In general, no advance planning is needed inside the Lecce-Savonlinna-The Hague triangle.
The Hyundai charging card works with close to 900,000 chargers in Europe (some of them in the UK). If money is not an object, you could probably just use the card (stings a bit in Italy). IONITY passport covers more than 95% of charging on the road.
Picture from the nearest place from Geneva (Bosnia Herzegovina) where you need to plan charging a bit (for now):
With a bit of political will, UK should catch up soon (the difference in charger density is not massive, at least compared to the US).
The Hyundai charging card works with close to 900,000 chargers in Europe (some of them in the UK). If money is not an object, you could probably just use the card (stings a bit in Italy). IONITY passport covers more than 95% of charging on the road.
Picture from the nearest place from Geneva (Bosnia Herzegovina) where you need to plan charging a bit (for now):
With a bit of political will, UK should catch up soon (the difference in charger density is not massive, at least compared to the US).
That is great to know it all works the same. My 600 mile trip in one day in the standard range model 3 was no issue at all. I used Tesla superchargers and 1 Gridserve at Reading. Apart from the cost the Gridserve site was nicely laid out, lots of chargers and offered decent speends and contactless payment. A tiny little bit more faff that Tesla but it did work fine.
Re the maps and preconditioning on, say, the BMW, as I like the i4s, and well any other brand as new cars are coming out all the time that peak my interest, do the maps get updated so the car knows where the all the chargers are as new ones are popping up all the time.
Cheers
Re the maps and preconditioning on, say, the BMW, as I like the i4s, and well any other brand as new cars are coming out all the time that peak my interest, do the maps get updated so the car knows where the all the chargers are as new ones are popping up all the time.
Cheers
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
That is great to know it all works the same. My 600 mile trip in one day in the standard range model 3 was no issue at all. I used Tesla superchargers and 1 Gridserve at Reading. Apart from the cost the Gridserve site was nicely laid out, lots of chargers and offered decent speends and contactless payment. A tiny little bit more faff that Tesla but it did work fine.
Re the maps and preconditioning on, say, the BMW, as I like the i4s, and well any other brand as new cars are coming out all the time that peak my interest, do the maps get updated so the car knows where the all the chargers are as new ones are popping up all the time.
Cheers
Even my ID3's maps are continually updated for charger locations, so I'd hope any other manufacturer did the same. Plus, you've always got Carplay / Android Auto to fall back on if you found the native nav systems to be not up to scratch.Re the maps and preconditioning on, say, the BMW, as I like the i4s, and well any other brand as new cars are coming out all the time that peak my interest, do the maps get updated so the car knows where the all the chargers are as new ones are popping up all the time.
Cheers
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Hi,
I've had a Model Y for a couple of weeks and am just back from a road trip to the Scottish Highlands from the south of England. I wanted to see what life was like on a road trip with an EV and tbh, with the Tesla network and the integration with the cars computer it was, frankly a piece of cake. At most the car wanted 20 mins, sometimes only 7 mins on 3 stops over 540 miles each way. My family and I needed longer at each stop than the car so we charged more than was required.
I'm interested in what it is like with non-Tesla EVs, prompted by a couple of things:
I did much the same trip as you in October in a Polestar.I've had a Model Y for a couple of weeks and am just back from a road trip to the Scottish Highlands from the south of England. I wanted to see what life was like on a road trip with an EV and tbh, with the Tesla network and the integration with the cars computer it was, frankly a piece of cake. At most the car wanted 20 mins, sometimes only 7 mins on 3 stops over 540 miles each way. My family and I needed longer at each stop than the car so we charged more than was required.
I'm interested in what it is like with non-Tesla EVs, prompted by a couple of things:
The trip was much the same as you on the way back; I also used the Tesla chargers, but the charging time was much longer as the car wasn't as efficient, and we had a roof box fitted
Tesla chargers caught us out at Trentham as the Tesla app and car showed three available, but they were blocked by two ICE and an EV not charging, which meant a 15-minute wait before we could start to charge.
We never had the car stop charging at 80%, I don't know if that is a Tesla thing or not, but at the first stop, we had lunch and walked around the shops, which was around an hour & 15 minutes and the car was almost fully charged at 98%, this was down to us not the car, before any shouts at me there were a load of chargers free (over 10), no one was waiting.
Tesla charges £8.50 for a single month of usage of the network at the same rate as Tesla owners (37p a kWh for this trip), which is perfect for a holiday,
Without the roof box, I think the Polestar would have been exactly the same experience as using the Tesla, TBH, without having to drive a Tesla
Edited by TheRainMaker on Thursday 27th February 09:50
Actually re Tesla chargers, I too was also almost caught out. The chargers at Sarn Park at Bridgend, Wales, said there were c10 available but when I got there workers were digging up the site and only 4 were active, at 3 were taken! I couldn't see anywhere on the app to notify of an issue.
There were some gridserve and others available though so it would have been ok. I was on 8% at the time. I did have to share a stall so it took double the time to charge and we did have a light concern we'd not make it for the funeral, but we did with plenty of time in the end.
There were some gridserve and others available though so it would have been ok. I was on 8% at the time. I did have to share a stall so it took double the time to charge and we did have a light concern we'd not make it for the funeral, but we did with plenty of time in the end.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
That is great to know it all works the same. My 600 mile trip in one day in the standard range model 3 was no issue at all. I used Tesla superchargers and 1 Gridserve at Reading. Apart from the cost the Gridserve site was nicely laid out, lots of chargers and offered decent speends and contactless payment. A tiny little bit more faff that Tesla but it did work fine.
Re the maps and preconditioning on, say, the BMW, as I like the i4s, and well any other brand as new cars are coming out all the time that peak my interest, do the maps get updated so the car knows where the all the chargers are as new ones are popping up all the time.
Cheers
The maps on my i4 get updated when new chargers are added,Re the maps and preconditioning on, say, the BMW, as I like the i4s, and well any other brand as new cars are coming out all the time that peak my interest, do the maps get updated so the car knows where the all the chargers are as new ones are popping up all the time.
Cheers
it also shows real time traffic info which can be useful when trying to avoid any congestion etc
Its simply not a problem.
We made the move from Tesla after nearly 10 years and you search for chargers of any make, and the car preconditions if needed. The later cars also have the identification thing that once registered with a lot of third party chargers you just plug in, it authenticates, charges and bills you behind the scenes.
The Tesla preconditioning was, in my opinion, so barly executed that I would only ever put a supercharger in when about 15 mins away. It would happily heat your battery for charging 2 hours before you get to the charger and in doing so hurt your efficiency, it would then get all its calculations wrong and tell you that you needed a higher state of charge. They hmay have fixed it since, but it was a typical case of Tesla trying to be clever and getting it very wrong.
We made the move from Tesla after nearly 10 years and you search for chargers of any make, and the car preconditions if needed. The later cars also have the identification thing that once registered with a lot of third party chargers you just plug in, it authenticates, charges and bills you behind the scenes.
The Tesla preconditioning was, in my opinion, so barly executed that I would only ever put a supercharger in when about 15 mins away. It would happily heat your battery for charging 2 hours before you get to the charger and in doing so hurt your efficiency, it would then get all its calculations wrong and tell you that you needed a higher state of charge. They hmay have fixed it since, but it was a typical case of Tesla trying to be clever and getting it very wrong.
My i4 (and I assume other recent BMW's too) will plan a route as per the Tesla by mapping out an optimal charging schedule. It will dynamically update the plan if some chargers are particularly busy and it will also pre-condition the battery. It does this for all chargers, I'm not sure if the Tesla only maps to Tesla chargers...?
Tbh I've only ever loosely followed the plan once, I normally just use google maps via Android Auto so I have spotify and whatsapp on the screen too, I don't even bother thinking about where I might charge, I just stop whenever I'm hungry or need a coffee at the nearest services and plug it in for 10-15 minutes, which is another 2 hours of driving until I need to think about it again. If I did a particularly long trip and needed to do it in the most time efficient way, I'm confident the system would do a great job if I followed it.
The only other difference I can think of is that when I get to the services, I normally drive past the Tesla chargers which are in a separate area and to the non-Tesla rapid chargers which at most services are right next to the entrance, which I quite like
So far as I can work out the only remaining USP of the Tesla charging network is it's cheaper, which for occasional users probably isn't on their list of things to worry about. But if using frequently, most Tesla sites can now charge other EV's in anycase. I guess the Tesla's also have 'plug and go' or whatever it's called, instead of needing to tap a payment card. Apparently other cars now have this but I just tap my Octopus Electroverse card which works on pretty much all rapid chargers and bills the charge straight to my home energy account.
I think the general assumption charging is easier in a Tesla is at this stage just a hangover from the past when for a long time, it was genuinely true. These days though, there's nothing in it really.
Tbh I've only ever loosely followed the plan once, I normally just use google maps via Android Auto so I have spotify and whatsapp on the screen too, I don't even bother thinking about where I might charge, I just stop whenever I'm hungry or need a coffee at the nearest services and plug it in for 10-15 minutes, which is another 2 hours of driving until I need to think about it again. If I did a particularly long trip and needed to do it in the most time efficient way, I'm confident the system would do a great job if I followed it.
The only other difference I can think of is that when I get to the services, I normally drive past the Tesla chargers which are in a separate area and to the non-Tesla rapid chargers which at most services are right next to the entrance, which I quite like
So far as I can work out the only remaining USP of the Tesla charging network is it's cheaper, which for occasional users probably isn't on their list of things to worry about. But if using frequently, most Tesla sites can now charge other EV's in anycase. I guess the Tesla's also have 'plug and go' or whatever it's called, instead of needing to tap a payment card. Apparently other cars now have this but I just tap my Octopus Electroverse card which works on pretty much all rapid chargers and bills the charge straight to my home energy account.
I think the general assumption charging is easier in a Tesla is at this stage just a hangover from the past when for a long time, it was genuinely true. These days though, there's nothing in it really.
I agree, I needed a public charge on Saturday and the car (I was in the wife’s Born) chose a Tesla charger. Was surprised how cheap it was - 48p/kWh. Just tapped contactless payment and off I went. Couldn’t have been easier, 6 or 7 spare chargers and at a pretty nice pub just off the A1.
Good to hear, whilst I like my car, i know in 3 years I will want to try something else as I currently have 2 Tesla and it is a bit "Truman Show". They have been great as an introduction to switch to EVs though.
Re the mapping does this all get updated regularly then, Tesla maps are updated all the time for road changes. They do also list non tesla chargers and the car pre-conditions for them as well following a recent update, however on cost grounds they are not a priority to use over Tesla chargers. Are we now at a stage where gone are the days where you had to pay the manufacturer for pricey map updates to keep the sat nav up to date for, now charger availability as well as road changes?
Re the mapping does this all get updated regularly then, Tesla maps are updated all the time for road changes. They do also list non tesla chargers and the car pre-conditions for them as well following a recent update, however on cost grounds they are not a priority to use over Tesla chargers. Are we now at a stage where gone are the days where you had to pay the manufacturer for pricey map updates to keep the sat nav up to date for, now charger availability as well as road changes?
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Good to hear, whilst I like my car, i know in 3 years I will want to try something else as I currently have 2 Tesla and it is a bit "Truman Show". They have been great as an introduction to switch to EVs though.
Re the mapping does this all get updated regularly then, Tesla maps are updated all the time for road changes. They do also list non tesla chargers and the car pre-conditions for them as well following a recent update, however on cost grounds they are not a priority to use over Tesla chargers. Are we now at a stage where gone are the days where you had to pay the manufacturer for pricey map updates to keep the sat nav up to date for, now charger availability as well as road changes?
My BMW and before that my Jag iPace both had fully updated 'live' maps. I'm assuming they get the map data from Google because it shows the same sort of traffic accuracy etc, and live updates on charger availability. Re the mapping does this all get updated regularly then, Tesla maps are updated all the time for road changes. They do also list non tesla chargers and the car pre-conditions for them as well following a recent update, however on cost grounds they are not a priority to use over Tesla chargers. Are we now at a stage where gone are the days where you had to pay the manufacturer for pricey map updates to keep the sat nav up to date for, now charger availability as well as road changes?
It's been over a decade since I even thought about updating a cars mapping software, your post is the the only thing that reminded me that used to be a thing
Tbh the biggest difference you'll notice when you swap the Tesla is that the new car will have an interior
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
Good to hear, whilst I like my car, i know in 3 years I will want to try something else as I currently have 2 Tesla and it is a bit "Truman Show". They have been great as an introduction to switch to EVs though.
Re the mapping does this all get updated regularly then, Tesla maps are updated all the time for road changes. They do also list non tesla chargers and the car pre-conditions for them as well following a recent update, however on cost grounds they are not a priority to use over Tesla chargers. Are we now at a stage where gone are the days where you had to pay the manufacturer for pricey map updates to keep the sat nav up to date for, now charger availability as well as road changes?
Tesla maps get updated once or twice a year, you may be mistaking the Google backcloth as always being updated, but that’s not used by the Nav at all. The nav is mapboxRe the mapping does this all get updated regularly then, Tesla maps are updated all the time for road changes. They do also list non tesla chargers and the car pre-conditions for them as well following a recent update, however on cost grounds they are not a priority to use over Tesla chargers. Are we now at a stage where gone are the days where you had to pay the manufacturer for pricey map updates to keep the sat nav up to date for, now charger availability as well as road changes?
BMW, and I imagine others, send quarterly increments to the nav to keep it up to date. So Tesla are actually generally behind others
But irrespective, they both can revert to a live lookup, typically Google, and/or have a destination sent to the car from a map.
No no no. This is PH, you're doing it all wrong.
You're supposed to have to stop every 50 miles, wait an hour for a charger to become free, only to find out it's got the wrong type of connector. Then, once you've found another one, there's no mobile phone signal to download a new app to make it work. At the third attempt, you do get it to start charging but it takes two hours and costs £300. Once you finally get to your destination, 2 days late, you notice a small stone chip and the car is written off as they can't be repaired.
We'll have none of this 'I drove where I was going and even though it was a long journey, it wasn't really much different to driving a petrol car, the car was comfy, quiet and fast, and it was quite a lot cheaper'.
You're supposed to have to stop every 50 miles, wait an hour for a charger to become free, only to find out it's got the wrong type of connector. Then, once you've found another one, there's no mobile phone signal to download a new app to make it work. At the third attempt, you do get it to start charging but it takes two hours and costs £300. Once you finally get to your destination, 2 days late, you notice a small stone chip and the car is written off as they can't be repaired.
We'll have none of this 'I drove where I was going and even though it was a long journey, it wasn't really much different to driving a petrol car, the car was comfy, quiet and fast, and it was quite a lot cheaper'.
mikey_b said:
No no no. This is PH, you're doing it all wrong.
You're supposed to have to stop every 50 miles, wait an hour for a charger to become free, only to find out it's got the wrong type of connector. Then, once you've found another one, there's no mobile phone signal to download a new app to make it work. At the third attempt, you do get it to start charging but it takes two hours and costs £300. Once you finally get to your destination, 2 days late, you notice a small stone chip and the car is written off as they can't be repaired.
We'll have none of this 'I drove where I was going and even though it was a long journey, it wasn't really much different to driving a petrol car, the car was comfy, quiet and fast, and it was quite a lot cheaper'.
You should make an anti MacMaster youtube channelYou're supposed to have to stop every 50 miles, wait an hour for a charger to become free, only to find out it's got the wrong type of connector. Then, once you've found another one, there's no mobile phone signal to download a new app to make it work. At the third attempt, you do get it to start charging but it takes two hours and costs £300. Once you finally get to your destination, 2 days late, you notice a small stone chip and the car is written off as they can't be repaired.
We'll have none of this 'I drove where I was going and even though it was a long journey, it wasn't really much different to driving a petrol car, the car was comfy, quiet and fast, and it was quite a lot cheaper'.
You can use this picture (Friday rush hour just off the M4 J16)
mikey_b said:
No no no. This is PH, you're doing it all wrong.
You're supposed to have to stop every 50 miles, wait an hour for a charger to become free, only to find out it's got the wrong type of connector. Then, once you've found another one, there's no mobile phone signal to download a new app to make it work. At the third attempt, you do get it to start charging but it takes two hours and costs £300. Once you finally get to your destination, 2 days late, you notice a small stone chip and the car is written off as they can't be repaired.
We'll have none of this 'I drove where I was going and even though it was a long journey, it wasn't really much different to driving a petrol car, the car was comfy, quiet and fast, and it was quite a lot cheaper'.
haha true!You're supposed to have to stop every 50 miles, wait an hour for a charger to become free, only to find out it's got the wrong type of connector. Then, once you've found another one, there's no mobile phone signal to download a new app to make it work. At the third attempt, you do get it to start charging but it takes two hours and costs £300. Once you finally get to your destination, 2 days late, you notice a small stone chip and the car is written off as they can't be repaired.
We'll have none of this 'I drove where I was going and even though it was a long journey, it wasn't really much different to driving a petrol car, the car was comfy, quiet and fast, and it was quite a lot cheaper'.
And tbh the poster above with the picture of empty chargers was broadly how it was for me. Excecpt in Bridgend Sarn Park where they had dug up and only left 4 chargers operational. My palms were sweating as I had to park next to another car on charge and halve their charging speed!
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