EVs are the spawn of the devil!
Discussion
Latest complete nonsense.
https://www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/type-air...
Two sentences from "James" the research fellow.
"Unfortunately, while the switch to electric vehicles (EVs) will eliminate exhaust emissions, which include toxic gases as well as dust, it will not eliminate road, tyre and brake dust. Studies indicate that, because they tend to be heavier, electric vehicles can generate more non-exhaust dust than petrol or diesel vehicles – the zero-emission label is clearly not accurate.
Some EVs are fitted with regenerative braking systems that allow the engine to act as a generator, slowing the car".
SOME? anyone know an EV without regenerative braking?
I wonder who funded this study?
https://www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/type-air...
Two sentences from "James" the research fellow.
"Unfortunately, while the switch to electric vehicles (EVs) will eliminate exhaust emissions, which include toxic gases as well as dust, it will not eliminate road, tyre and brake dust. Studies indicate that, because they tend to be heavier, electric vehicles can generate more non-exhaust dust than petrol or diesel vehicles – the zero-emission label is clearly not accurate.
Some EVs are fitted with regenerative braking systems that allow the engine to act as a generator, slowing the car".
SOME? anyone know an EV without regenerative braking?
I wonder who funded this study?
The levels of journalism on-line are shocking, claims rarely backed up by scientific fact, or just plain guess work when a few moments of research would turn up the truth anyway. These articles are merely designed as click bait . Where many ring true to some extent , there is never any real like for like comparisons
So , EV` create dust particles , ice cars create dust particles , but which group creates the most and are there any clear winners and losers when it comes to overall pollution, never stated , as they do not know, or care .
Of course we know EV`s are not entirely pollution free when the manufacturing side is factored in , neither are ICE vehicles ,but again, which group creates the most pollution and/or environmental damage ,not clear .
Of course the fuel source for ICE vehicles is a well established system, hardly likely to get too much worse over the coming years as the infrastructure is well in place, ie, drilling, shipping ,refining & marketing is not going to kick over that many rocks in the grand scheme .
For EV`s , it is very different, the power source being electricity , which is generated in many different ways ,changing all the time, little of which will ever be without issues due to manufacturing and maintenance , but the storage of that power is an issue which gets raised , glossed over ,goes away ,comes back ,with no real answers.
There is no doubt the investment in mining metals for battery manufacture globally is immense, it may even outstrip the investment in oil drilling/exploration.
Those investors are the real movers behind EV`s (my guess, prove me wrong) and are steering government policy around the World
As long as there are greedy barstewards around , they truth may not surface easily .
Anyway , shoot me down, lot of this has been said before . I am not nay saying EV`s just that it`s not about being green, but `how much money can I save ` by owning one.
So , EV` create dust particles , ice cars create dust particles , but which group creates the most and are there any clear winners and losers when it comes to overall pollution, never stated , as they do not know, or care .
Of course we know EV`s are not entirely pollution free when the manufacturing side is factored in , neither are ICE vehicles ,but again, which group creates the most pollution and/or environmental damage ,not clear .
Of course the fuel source for ICE vehicles is a well established system, hardly likely to get too much worse over the coming years as the infrastructure is well in place, ie, drilling, shipping ,refining & marketing is not going to kick over that many rocks in the grand scheme .
For EV`s , it is very different, the power source being electricity , which is generated in many different ways ,changing all the time, little of which will ever be without issues due to manufacturing and maintenance , but the storage of that power is an issue which gets raised , glossed over ,goes away ,comes back ,with no real answers.
There is no doubt the investment in mining metals for battery manufacture globally is immense, it may even outstrip the investment in oil drilling/exploration.
Those investors are the real movers behind EV`s (my guess, prove me wrong) and are steering government policy around the World
As long as there are greedy barstewards around , they truth may not surface easily .
Anyway , shoot me down, lot of this has been said before . I am not nay saying EV`s just that it`s not about being green, but `how much money can I save ` by owning one.
hot metal said:
There is no doubt the investment in mining metals for battery manufacture globally is immense, it may even outstrip the investment in oil drilling/exploration.
I think this is fairly unlikely for two reasons. Firstly, it's looking increasingly likely that Lithium will soon be replaced with Sodium as the main element in the electrolyte of traction batteries and Sodium is obviously abundantly available without mining. Secondly, even if the industry sticks with Lithium, there will presumably come a point where mining starts to tail off or at least flat-line as recycling existing spent batteries provides more and more of the Lithium required for new cars. I've read around the subject a lot, and whilst obviously the only "green" car is one that doesn't exist, there is little doubt amongst proper researchers (ie those not paid to reach a particular conclusion) that EVs are considerably less environmentally damaging overall than ICE vehicles both on a micro- and macro- scale.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 20th February 08:17
Alex Z said:
Higher levels of particulates from tyres is a fair observation, though far less of an environmental concern than everything being produced by fossil fuel cars.
Brake discs is nonsense as most of the time they aren’t used.
Is it? I've heard some people claim their tyres wear quicker but mine last just as long, or longer than my ICE vehicles. Manufacturers are producing EV specific tyres nowadays so they shouldn't be producing any more particulates.Brake discs is nonsense as most of the time they aren’t used.
Zero Fuchs said:
Alex Z said:
Higher levels of particulates from tyres is a fair observation, though far less of an environmental concern than everything being produced by fossil fuel cars.
Brake discs is nonsense as most of the time they aren’t used.
Is it? I've heard some people claim their tyres wear quicker but mine last just as long, or longer than my ICE vehicles. Manufacturers are producing EV specific tyres nowadays so they shouldn't be producing any more particulates.Brake discs is nonsense as most of the time they aren’t used.
My tyre wear seems not dissimilar to my previous ICE.
Nomme de Plum said:
Zero Fuchs said:
Alex Z said:
Higher levels of particulates from tyres is a fair observation, though far less of an environmental concern than everything being produced by fossil fuel cars.
Brake discs is nonsense as most of the time they aren’t used.
Is it? I've heard some people claim their tyres wear quicker but mine last just as long, or longer than my ICE vehicles. Manufacturers are producing EV specific tyres nowadays so they shouldn't be producing any more particulates.Brake discs is nonsense as most of the time they aren’t used.
My tyre wear seems not dissimilar to my previous ICE.
I find that a lot of tyres I've previously bought (and still do( for my ICE cars have quite soft compounds. So typically I'll get 10-12k on the driven wheels. My i3s tyres seem to do 15k at least and have got up to 18k before. That's with me not worrying about hard acceleration out of junctions.
It's the anti car lobby/click baiters all over. Not content with zero emissions from the power source they now have to focus on tyres and brakes.
How realistic is it to remove brakes totally and let the motors slow or stop the car? From the heady days of my electric R/C cars I remember that throwing them into reverse could easily lock the wheels.
I guess tyres could be improved to reduce, but not eliminate, particulates.
How realistic is it to remove brakes totally and let the motors slow or stop the car? From the heady days of my electric R/C cars I remember that throwing them into reverse could easily lock the wheels.
I guess tyres could be improved to reduce, but not eliminate, particulates.
Zero Fuchs said:
Oh for sure and appreciate the huge caveat with my post is driving style. However despite this I've found that my i3s tyres last pretty well, even with a lot of hard acceleration. The regen must make a lot of difference though.
I find that a lot of tyres I've previously bought (and still do( for my ICE cars have quite soft compounds. So typically I'll get 10-12k on the driven wheels. My i3s tyres seem to do 15k at least and have got up to 18k before. That's with me not worrying about hard acceleration out of junctions.
I'm driving an i3S also here in the UK and have just changed the rear tyres due to sidewall puncture which was a bit annoying as they still had about 50% tread available. Goodyear Efficiency grip 195/55/R20 so slightly higher profile. I'll see how long they last. I find that a lot of tyres I've previously bought (and still do( for my ICE cars have quite soft compounds. So typically I'll get 10-12k on the driven wheels. My i3s tyres seem to do 15k at least and have got up to 18k before. That's with me not worrying about hard acceleration out of junctions.
My only real disappointment is the Regen is not particularly strong. I see BMW are targeting 98% for future cars.
Regarding tyre wear, my i3s goes through rear tyres every 13k miles. But, they are only have 6mm tread depth from new. If they were 8mm this is equivalent to about 17k which is about the same as my old Cayman.
Brakes though, I've done 62k miles in the 2 i3 cars I've owned and not even come close to changing pads let alone discs. My Cayman went through a full set of front pads and discs about very 25k miles.
I know they're not really comparable cars, but with regard to particulate pollution generation it looks like the EV is equal on tyres but much better on brakes.
Brakes though, I've done 62k miles in the 2 i3 cars I've owned and not even come close to changing pads let alone discs. My Cayman went through a full set of front pads and discs about very 25k miles.
I know they're not really comparable cars, but with regard to particulate pollution generation it looks like the EV is equal on tyres but much better on brakes.
uknick said:
Regarding tyre wear, my i3s goes through rear tyres every 13k miles. But, they are only have 6mm tread depth from new. If they were 8mm this is equivalent to about 17k which is about the same as my old Cayman.
Brakes though, I've done 62k miles in the 2 i3 cars I've owned and not even come close to changing pads let alone discs. My Cayman went through a full set of front pads and discs about very 25k miles.
I know they're not really comparable cars, but with regard to particulate pollution generation it looks like the EV is equal on tyres but much better on brakes.
And your driving style was the same in the Cayman? Brakes though, I've done 62k miles in the 2 i3 cars I've owned and not even come close to changing pads let alone discs. My Cayman went through a full set of front pads and discs about very 25k miles.
I know they're not really comparable cars, but with regard to particulate pollution generation it looks like the EV is equal on tyres but much better on brakes.
TheDrownedApe said:
Some EVs are fitted with regenerative braking systems that allow the engine to act as a generator, slowing the car".
SOME? anyone know an EV without regenerative braking?
Watched Harrys Garage last night on the new Renault 5 EV. That doesnt have regen braking. Maybe thats a new trend for cheaper smaller cars? SOME? anyone know an EV without regenerative braking?
Frimley111R said:
It's the anti car lobby/click baiters all over. Not content with zero emissions from the power source they now have to focus on tyres and brakes.
How realistic is it to remove brakes totally and let the motors slow or stop the car? From the heady days of my electric R/C cars I remember that throwing them into reverse could easily lock the wheels.
I guess tyres could be improved to reduce, but not eliminate, particulates.
I think there is quite a bit of investment in changing tyre compound mix to reduce particulates. It's a bit of a conundrum as better grip tends to come with faster wear. How realistic is it to remove brakes totally and let the motors slow or stop the car? From the heady days of my electric R/C cars I remember that throwing them into reverse could easily lock the wheels.
I guess tyres could be improved to reduce, but not eliminate, particulates.
Hopefully regeneration will develop so that normal braking will be largely unnecessary. It won't overcome drivers with poor anticipation though or those on off accelerate/ brake drivers we oft see.
andyb28 said:
TheDrownedApe said:
Some EVs are fitted with regenerative braking systems that allow the engine to act as a generator, slowing the car".
SOME? anyone know an EV without regenerative braking?
Watched Harrys Garage last night on the new Renault 5 EV. That doesnt have regen braking. Maybe thats a new trend for cheaper smaller cars? SOME? anyone know an EV without regenerative braking?
From Renault's own website
"The energy recovery system allows the battery to recharge during deceleration or when you press the brake pedal. The B mode, which enhances regenerative braking, adjusts to your driving style and extends Renault 5's range."
https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/r5-e-t...
JonnyVTEC said:
andyb28 said:
Watched Harrys Garage last night on the new Renault 5 EV. That doesnt have regen braking. Maybe thats a new trend for cheaper smaller cars?
Please drive the cars before you come out with stuff like this. Just watching a video to make statements like that are a farce. Do people not have an internal BS antenna that signals when something doesn't sound quite right?
I'm not saying that the video was deliberately misleading btw.
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