PHEV to EV - Charging
Discussion
Hi all
I currently have a PHEV which for various reasons don’t charge that much, so don’t have too much knowledge of the charging network.
As a company car, I have various options, including a Tesla 3 or Y. Other options include Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV3, Ford Explorer, Volkswagen ID7, Volvo EC3.
For various reasons, mainly related to wanting to sit higher in a car, I am not keen on a Tesla.
I have some questions if I may:
1. My perception is that Tesla has a superior charging network. However, I also have heard that their network is open to non-Tesla cars. Is this correct?
2. Do Tesla have a standard rate per kWh? If so, what is it, and is the rate higher for non-Tesla’s?
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
Many thanks
G.
I currently have a PHEV which for various reasons don’t charge that much, so don’t have too much knowledge of the charging network.
As a company car, I have various options, including a Tesla 3 or Y. Other options include Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV3, Ford Explorer, Volkswagen ID7, Volvo EC3.
For various reasons, mainly related to wanting to sit higher in a car, I am not keen on a Tesla.
I have some questions if I may:
1. My perception is that Tesla has a superior charging network. However, I also have heard that their network is open to non-Tesla cars. Is this correct?
2. Do Tesla have a standard rate per kWh? If so, what is it, and is the rate higher for non-Tesla’s?
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
Many thanks
G.
I have a Hyundai Kona
The Tesla charging network is PARTIALLY open, I used public charging for 6 months (2 over night options near me) then bought a 7kw "granny" type charger to plug into a 32A socket at home.
<edited to add> - yes, range -20% in winter months. But we have got > 300 miles on a charge around Surrey/London.
The Tesla charging network is PARTIALLY open, I used public charging for 6 months (2 over night options near me) then bought a 7kw "granny" type charger to plug into a 32A socket at home.
<edited to add> - yes, range -20% in winter months. But we have got > 300 miles on a charge around Surrey/London.
Edited by daveor8v8 on Tuesday 19th November 12:24
Edited by daveor8v8 on Tuesday 19th November 12:27
gsr121 said:
Hi all
I currently have a PHEV which for various reasons don’t charge that much, so don’t have too much knowledge of the charging network.
As a company car, I have various options, including a Tesla 3 or Y. Other options include Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV3, Ford Explorer, Volkswagen ID7, Volvo EC3.
For various reasons, mainly related to wanting to sit higher in a car, I am not keen on a Tesla.
I have some questions if I may:
1. My perception is that Tesla has a superior charging network. However, I also have heard that their network is open to non-Tesla cars. Is this correct?
2. Do Tesla have a standard rate per kWh? If so, what is it, and is the rate higher for non-Tesla’s?
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
Many thanks
G.
1) Not sure about your definition of superior but they're pretty prolific, however, there are black spots. If you check the coverage map for 'open to all' superchargers you'll see what I mean. - https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=54.566...I currently have a PHEV which for various reasons don’t charge that much, so don’t have too much knowledge of the charging network.
As a company car, I have various options, including a Tesla 3 or Y. Other options include Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV3, Ford Explorer, Volkswagen ID7, Volvo EC3.
For various reasons, mainly related to wanting to sit higher in a car, I am not keen on a Tesla.
I have some questions if I may:
1. My perception is that Tesla has a superior charging network. However, I also have heard that their network is open to non-Tesla cars. Is this correct?
2. Do Tesla have a standard rate per kWh? If so, what is it, and is the rate higher for non-Tesla’s?
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
Many thanks
G.
2) You can see the costs per kwh in the app, they vary depending on how busy the location and the time of day. eg the one closest to me is currently 37p off peak and 45p between 4-8PM. You'll need to pay a monthly subscription for a non Tesla ~ £9pcm
3) Not sure what the published range is/was for my 2019 Model 3LR but to give you an idea of consumption over appric 50k miles I'm averaging just under 3.3 mi/kwh. FWIW there's usually 2 people in the car and the boot is fully loaded on most occasions with work equipment, so it's hauling a bit more weight around, plus I don't baby it, I drive it as I have any other car.
I'll agree, the M3 sits pretty low, the MY is a decent option, considerably higher driving position. Worth a test drive.
gsr121 said:
Hi all
I currently have a PHEV which for various reasons don’t charge that much, so don’t have too much knowledge of the charging network.
As a company car, I have various options, including a Tesla 3 or Y. Other options include Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV3, Ford Explorer, Volkswagen ID7, Volvo EC3.
For various reasons, mainly related to wanting to sit higher in a car, I am not keen on a Tesla.
I have some questions if I may:
1. My perception is that Tesla has a superior charging network. However, I also have heard that their network is open to non-Tesla cars. Is this correct?
2. Do Tesla have a standard rate per kWh? If so, what is it, and is the rate higher for non-Tesla’s?
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
Many thanks
G.
1. You can check https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to see what the charging needs and options are for the different routes. On the continent, Tesla doesn't seem to be superior (judging from the Teslas charging next to me at IONITY stations across a supercharger). For Hyundai, https://chargemyhyundai.com/ would have a map showing the chargers accessible with the RFID card you can order. These stations are also used by the in-car navigation (that makes the usual suggestions of where to charge, makes estimates of remaining charge on arrival, etc.). KIA should use the same system.I currently have a PHEV which for various reasons don’t charge that much, so don’t have too much knowledge of the charging network.
As a company car, I have various options, including a Tesla 3 or Y. Other options include Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV3, Ford Explorer, Volkswagen ID7, Volvo EC3.
For various reasons, mainly related to wanting to sit higher in a car, I am not keen on a Tesla.
I have some questions if I may:
1. My perception is that Tesla has a superior charging network. However, I also have heard that their network is open to non-Tesla cars. Is this correct?
2. Do Tesla have a standard rate per kWh? If so, what is it, and is the rate higher for non-Tesla’s?
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
Many thanks
G.
2. No first hand experience, but my understanding is "no, yes"
3. I'd check https://ev-database.org/ for realistic range estimates. B roads (and smaller/slower) tend to offer pleasant surprises, snowstorms on motorways less so.
If you download the Tesla app (free)
With no Tesla car associated with it.
You can use the ones which you can see..
The prices are easily seen in the app.
No subscription required.
But the prices are a bit lower if you subscribe. Depends if you use enough!
Eg a local charger to me:-
With no Tesla car associated with it.
You can use the ones which you can see..
The prices are easily seen in the app.
No subscription required.
But the prices are a bit lower if you subscribe. Depends if you use enough!
Eg a local charger to me:-
Edited by James6112 on Tuesday 19th November 13:35
gsr121 said:
3. Is it reasonable to deduct 20% from the published range to get a real life estimate of actual range?
'actual range' depends on speed, it's a lot less at higher speeds. Generally you care about range on long trips, and generally long trips are done mostly on motorways or other 70mph roads.Take my 2021 Citroen e-C4 as an example. WLTP range is 216 miles. Actual motorway range? Barely half that:
https://www.citroen.co.uk/electric-for-all/range-o...
in my experience the 123 miles is pretty accurate in those conditions.
Some other cars hang onto a higher proportion of their WLTP range in real world motorway use, but the gap between WLTP and 70mph motorway in British weather is generally bigger than 20% and can be getting on for half, as in this case.
My Taycan has a range of 280 miles from 100% to 0%. To get that I would drive at 70mph. If I go to 80 it drops slightly. If I go to 125 it drops off a cliff. (Not UK and not actual numbers. Just an example your honor).
But, driving an EV is different to driving a petrol car. It’s more like using a mobile phone. I charge mine over night and use the car. For most use you only charge it to 80-85%. It helps the battery. (Some research says it isn’t necessary). When I do that I get 210 miles.
Then Winter comes along. Heating a car by electricity is about the worst use of energy possible. I get about 180 miles range. Nice thing is that heat comes through immediately as you don’t have to wait for the engine to warm up.
Even in road trips you approach the trip differently. Instead of going from 100% to empty, you can be more strategic on your charges to maximize charge rates and lost time stood by the charger. My car will charge 15% to 85% in under 20 minutes. The last 15% of stuffing energy in the battery might take another 20 minutes. This may sound like an added layer of ball ache. But, my car’s navigation takes car of everything. Plans the route, warms the battery and knows your charge status. You just tell it how much battery you want when you get to your destination.
I’m suspicious about ABRP with no real evidence so want to listen to others. The one time I used it I ended up at a charge station that was not convenient and was packed with other ABRP users. I’m convinced the petrol station paid to be recommended. The reason I’m suspicious is that ABRP had recommended it both ways from NYC to Washington DC. On the way down I over ruled and went to a more continent station with faster chargers.
Also, Porsche have integrated with Apple Maps but I haven’t tried the EV intelligent route planning yet. I see the battery SOC is in the Apple Maps app though. More experimental road trips needed.
But, driving an EV is different to driving a petrol car. It’s more like using a mobile phone. I charge mine over night and use the car. For most use you only charge it to 80-85%. It helps the battery. (Some research says it isn’t necessary). When I do that I get 210 miles.
Then Winter comes along. Heating a car by electricity is about the worst use of energy possible. I get about 180 miles range. Nice thing is that heat comes through immediately as you don’t have to wait for the engine to warm up.
Even in road trips you approach the trip differently. Instead of going from 100% to empty, you can be more strategic on your charges to maximize charge rates and lost time stood by the charger. My car will charge 15% to 85% in under 20 minutes. The last 15% of stuffing energy in the battery might take another 20 minutes. This may sound like an added layer of ball ache. But, my car’s navigation takes car of everything. Plans the route, warms the battery and knows your charge status. You just tell it how much battery you want when you get to your destination.
I’m suspicious about ABRP with no real evidence so want to listen to others. The one time I used it I ended up at a charge station that was not convenient and was packed with other ABRP users. I’m convinced the petrol station paid to be recommended. The reason I’m suspicious is that ABRP had recommended it both ways from NYC to Washington DC. On the way down I over ruled and went to a more continent station with faster chargers.
Also, Porsche have integrated with Apple Maps but I haven’t tried the EV intelligent route planning yet. I see the battery SOC is in the Apple Maps app though. More experimental road trips needed.
Oh yes, Tesla chargers.
I’m in the US so your experience may vary.
I can charge my car at waaaay faster rates than Tesla can offer.
But, and it’s a big one. I’d take the Tesla experience and settle for “slower charge rates”. Those slower charge rates are still very fast and consistent. If you pull up to a Tesla charge station, they all charge at the same rate and are not impacted by load based on how many chargers are being used.
All other chargers are.
I can pull up at a 450 charger and my car can be charged too quickly. This has happened. I paid for occupying a bay on two occasions because the car reached the set point too quick. But, if I plug in and get blistering charge speeds, and then my fellow EV driver plugs in, I’m dragged down. This happens all the time and my kids watch the charge speed go all over the place while the Tesla owner just gets a solid charge rate.
Oh boy there’s more… I turned up at a charge station and see there’s many options. It’s like going to a petrol station and seeing many positions but each one has a different sized nozzle. These can vary by 7-10x speed. But there’s a problem. Let’s say I’m driving a nice little Zoe. My highest charge rate is low. I know this and I will take the slow charger. Oh no, there’s only the 450 open so I’m going to take that. Then, some guy in a Porsche pulls up and the slow charger is now open. What do you do? Well I asked the slow charging car to move. This might make me a dick. That might already be evident by turning up in a Porsche. But, my car can suck on those electric hoses 7 times quicker.
Another charge experience was for a guy towing. We all agreed he could have the charger at the end as that was the only one that he could park at. Another charger came free so I pulled in. Some obnoxious American kid shouted “Hey Mom. That Porsche just jumped the line”. I was stood right next to him! I just said “Porscha”. I couldn’t help myself. (If not obvious, I hadn’t jumped the line.
I’ve only charge 4 times in the public network and I have all this experience. It’s a learning curve and I’m confident I can survive. I kept my ICE car just in case but, ironically, it’s on a battery tender/charger.
I’m in the US so your experience may vary.
I can charge my car at waaaay faster rates than Tesla can offer.
But, and it’s a big one. I’d take the Tesla experience and settle for “slower charge rates”. Those slower charge rates are still very fast and consistent. If you pull up to a Tesla charge station, they all charge at the same rate and are not impacted by load based on how many chargers are being used.
All other chargers are.
I can pull up at a 450 charger and my car can be charged too quickly. This has happened. I paid for occupying a bay on two occasions because the car reached the set point too quick. But, if I plug in and get blistering charge speeds, and then my fellow EV driver plugs in, I’m dragged down. This happens all the time and my kids watch the charge speed go all over the place while the Tesla owner just gets a solid charge rate.
Oh boy there’s more… I turned up at a charge station and see there’s many options. It’s like going to a petrol station and seeing many positions but each one has a different sized nozzle. These can vary by 7-10x speed. But there’s a problem. Let’s say I’m driving a nice little Zoe. My highest charge rate is low. I know this and I will take the slow charger. Oh no, there’s only the 450 open so I’m going to take that. Then, some guy in a Porsche pulls up and the slow charger is now open. What do you do? Well I asked the slow charging car to move. This might make me a dick. That might already be evident by turning up in a Porsche. But, my car can suck on those electric hoses 7 times quicker.
Another charge experience was for a guy towing. We all agreed he could have the charger at the end as that was the only one that he could park at. Another charger came free so I pulled in. Some obnoxious American kid shouted “Hey Mom. That Porsche just jumped the line”. I was stood right next to him! I just said “Porscha”. I couldn’t help myself. (If not obvious, I hadn’t jumped the line.
I’ve only charge 4 times in the public network and I have all this experience. It’s a learning curve and I’m confident I can survive. I kept my ICE car just in case but, ironically, it’s on a battery tender/charger.
Edited by h0b0 on Wednesday 20th November 01:55
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