Rivian Factory Fire

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Discussion

dvs_dave

Original Poster:

9,040 posts

232 months

Monday 26th August
quotequote all
Looks like 50 odd Rivians were destroyed over the weekend in factory parking lot fire.

Will be interesting to find out the cause. Was it a high voltage battery fault, or something else?

{Inside EV’s} Over 50 Rivian EVs Damaged In Factory Parking Lot Fire. Here’s What Happened


TheDeuce

25,227 posts

73 months

Monday 26th August
quotequote all
Are we just posting random stories about car park fires now?

OK: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f5889c7ba9b3...

I'll swing by in a few weeks time with some more stories. I hope they're all as interesting as the OP's smile

PetrolHeadInRecovery

152 posts

22 months

Monday 26th August
quotequote all
I guess it is unavoidable topic of discussion - especially considering the name of the town this happened. smile

Maybe an opportunity to spread the word about the solutions that exist already (like water mist) that prevent the spread of fire and seem to work also for ICE fires? Probably not relevant for open lots (increasing the space between the vehicles might be enough?), but for the more challenging underground garage/ship settings.

BTW, anyone remember this fire making the global news?

dvs_dave

Original Poster:

9,040 posts

232 months

Tuesday 27th August
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Are we just posting random stories about car park fires now?

OK: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f5889c7ba9b3...

I'll swing by in a few weeks time with some more stories. I hope they're all as interesting as the OP's smile
Random car park fire….seriously? New EV’s stored in the dispatch lot of a 100% EV manufacturer means that the fire started with at least one EV. Possible causes are worthy of discussion.

Fact is that whilst very unlikely, EV’s catching fire due to battery failures is a thing that shouldn’t just be waved through as no big deal because other types of cars catch fire more often. It’s still not ‘ok’.

Or must we stifle discussion about it because you don’t want to talk about it and pretend it’s not something that needs to be improved?

dapprman

2,465 posts

274 months

Tuesday 27th August
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Now if it were Fissler I would be rather suspicious ... (though having said that rumour is Rivian are only surviving due to their partnerships with VW).

TheDeuce

25,227 posts

73 months

Tuesday 27th August
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
TheDeuce said:
Are we just posting random stories about car park fires now?

OK: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f5889c7ba9b3...

I'll swing by in a few weeks time with some more stories. I hope they're all as interesting as the OP's smile
Random car park fire….seriously? New EV’s stored in the dispatch lot of a 100% EV manufacturer means that the fire started with at least one EV. Possible causes are worthy of discussion.

Fact is that whilst very unlikely, EV’s catching fire due to battery failures is a thing that shouldn’t just be waved through as no big deal because other types of cars catch fire more often. It’s still not ‘ok’.

Or must we stifle discussion about it because you don’t want to talk about it and pretend it’s not something that needs to be improved?
But all the other car park fires that involve ICE cars don't get a thread each time - not unless there's a suspicion it could have been an EV in the mix...

Even if it was an EV that caused it, admittedly likely this time, what does a renewed discussion achieve? We all already know that when they go up, they go up big and are tricky to deal with..


Zero Fuchs

1,537 posts

25 months

Tuesday 27th August
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
TheDeuce said:
Are we just posting random stories about car park fires now?

OK: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f5889c7ba9b3...

I'll swing by in a few weeks time with some more stories. I hope they're all as interesting as the OP's smile
Random car park fire….seriously? New EV’s stored in the dispatch lot of a 100% EV manufacturer means that the fire started with at least one EV. Possible causes are worthy of discussion.

Fact is that whilst very unlikely, EV’s catching fire due to battery failures is a thing that shouldn’t just be waved through as no big deal because other types of cars catch fire more often. It’s still not ‘ok’.

Or must we stifle discussion about it because you don’t want to talk about it and pretend it’s not something that needs to be improved?
I'm not sure that there is to discuss? EV fires happen. Definitely not ideal but I don't ever discuss ICE fires despite driving them since the 1990's.

Like everything else, engineers continuously strive to improve everything to the n'th degree. I'm in aerospace as opposed to automotive but rest assured that auto engineers/companies are doing everything they can to improve upon all aspects of battery/car safety, including risk of fire.

I'm not entirely sure random people on PH are going to drive industry standards by talking about it on the internet.


dvs_dave

Original Poster:

9,040 posts

232 months

Wednesday 28th August
quotequote all

MightyBadger

2,809 posts

57 months

Wednesday 28th August
quotequote all
One American news company mentioned they were all ready to be scrapped, another reports they were all ready to be repaired.

off_again

13,079 posts

241 months

Wednesday 28th August
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
Random car park fire….seriously? New EV’s stored in the dispatch lot of a 100% EV manufacturer means that the fire started with at least one EV. Possible causes are worthy of discussion.

Fact is that whilst very unlikely, EV’s catching fire due to battery failures is a thing that shouldn’t just be waved through as no big deal because other types of cars catch fire more often. It’s still not ‘ok’.

Or must we stifle discussion about it because you don’t want to talk about it and pretend it’s not something that needs to be improved?
What is the purpose of this discussion though? Is this because you wish to have a fair and balanced discussion about manufacturing, safety in the workplace, how EV's are produced and stored and the overall safety aspect of battery packs?

Or, and stick with me on this, this is an attempt to push a narrative that EV's are inherently dangerous and should never be on the roads because of the fire risk?

I dont know, you tell me?

It currently looks like EV's are involved in significantly less fires than ICE or hybrid cars:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicl...

And the narrative that they are exploding nightmare balls of fire isnt accurate. When an EV fire does happen though, it can be more serious. It doesnt mean it always burns hotter than sun and melts everything in a 100 meter radius, only stopping when it reaches the center of the earth.

From what we are told, EV's will crush our roads into gravel because they are too heavy. Will destroy our bridges because they were never engineered to cope with 2 - 3 tonne vehicles. Will burn down all of our houses because they just burst into flame constantly. Will fail instantly in cold weather. Have battery packs that will destroy themselves in 3 years, necessitating a complete replacement. Will cause our multi-storey car parks to collapse because of the excessive weight and now they will burn down all of our factories because of 'reasons'.

That about accurate?

DMZ

1,566 posts

167 months

Wednesday 28th August
quotequote all
It could be a good solution to those car parks full of unwanted Chinese EVs, mind you. You never know, this could have been an insurance job. Oopsie they all went on fire.

dvs_dave

Original Poster:

9,040 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
off_again said:
What is the purpose of this discussion though? Is this because you wish to have a fair and balanced discussion about manufacturing, safety in the workplace, how EV's are produced and stored and the overall safety aspect of battery packs?

Or, and stick with me on this, this is an attempt to push a narrative that EV's are inherently dangerous and should never be on the roads because of the fire risk?

I dont know, you tell me?

It currently looks like EV's are involved in significantly less fires than ICE or hybrid cars:

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-electric-vehicl...

And the narrative that they are exploding nightmare balls of fire isnt accurate. When an EV fire does happen though, it can be more serious. It doesnt mean it always burns hotter than sun and melts everything in a 100 meter radius, only stopping when it reaches the center of the earth.

From what we are told, EV's will crush our roads into gravel because they are too heavy. Will destroy our bridges because they were never engineered to cope with 2 - 3 tonne vehicles. Will burn down all of our houses because they just burst into flame constantly. Will fail instantly in cold weather. Have battery packs that will destroy themselves in 3 years, necessitating a complete replacement. Will cause our multi-storey car parks to collapse because of the excessive weight and now they will burn down all of our factories because of 'reasons'.

That about accurate?
Quick you and others are with the condescension. I’ve owned an EV for 5+ years, and will probably go full EV daily fleet before too long. So I’m not some anti-EV moron who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

An observation worth pointing out is that in this instance where it’s absolutely certain that the fire was started by a factory fresh EV, and all anyone is interested in doing is waving it on as an irrelevance. If it had been a normal car park, or a car transport ship, for example, containing a variety of vehicles, and there was a tiny hint that it was started by an EV, this thread would be taking a very different path with everyone leaping into action to ‘defend’ the honor of the EV.

An interesting contrast in response.

I don’t suppose Rivian will ever release any details on the cause of this fire, but I wonder how prevalent this may be going forward industry wide, and if any different handling/storage practices will result given the difficulties containing battery fires. Especially in car storage setups where blocks of vehicles are closely packed in together with no easy access to the vehicles in the middle. It’s low-risk, but not no-risk. Maybe I should drop our YouTube mates “Geoff Buys Cars” and “Auto Expert John Cadogan” a line for some enlightenment.

rodericb

7,269 posts

133 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
Quick you and others are with the condescension. I’ve owned an EV for 5+ years, and will probably go full EV daily fleet before too long. So I’m not some anti-EV moron who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

An observation worth pointing out is that in this instance where it’s absolutely certain that the fire was started by a factory fresh EV, and all anyone is interested in doing is waving it on as an irrelevance. If it had been a normal car park, or a car transport ship, for example, containing a variety of vehicles, and there was a tiny hint that it was started by an EV, this thread would be taking a very different path with everyone leaping into action to ‘defend’ the honor of the EV.

An interesting contrast in response.

I don’t suppose Rivian will ever release any details on the cause of this fire, but I wonder how prevalent this may be going forward industry wide, and if any different handling/storage practices will result given the difficulties containing battery fires. Especially in car storage setups where blocks of vehicles are closely packed in together with no easy access to the vehicles in the middle. It’s low-risk, but not no-risk. Maybe I should drop our YouTube mates “Geoff Buys Cars” and “Auto Expert John Cadogan” a line for some enlightenment.
One could also give the examples of the Mercedes Benz EQE and the Kiva EV6 fires in underground garages in South Korea in the recent weeks. The EQE fire resulted in 160 cars being destroyed, the EV6 was found when it was off-gassing, subsequently ignited and the fire brigade towed it out of the garage and onto the street where it could happily burn on its own. The Lisbon airport fire has gone all quiet.....

Cadogan refers to a New Zealand study from 2007 of car park fires (obviously no EV's in the sample) and found the majority of cars were around ten years old and around half the fires were caused by electrical problems or arson. EV's have low voltage systems just like internal combustion engine cars, they may be subject to arson but there's not many at all which are anywhere near ten years old and will thus not be subject to age-related defects which can arise - be they through materials or manufacturing defects or damage through operation. The one fact is that the HV battery can contain a very potent fuel source which requires a significant change in fire mitigation and management processes to minimize the impacts if one does go up. Like the EQE and the EV6 examples I just mentioned - luckily the EV6 was spotted off-gassing and was still able to be removed from the garage (while on fire!).


Edited by rodericb on Thursday 29th August 05:26

Zero Fuchs

1,537 posts

25 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
Quick you and others are with the condescension. I’ve owned an EV for 5+ years, and will probably go full EV daily fleet before too long. So I’m not some anti-EV moron who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

An observation worth pointing out is that in this instance where it’s absolutely certain that the fire was started by a factory fresh EV, and all anyone is interested in doing is waving it on as an irrelevance. If it had been a normal car park, or a car transport ship, for example, containing a variety of vehicles, and there was a tiny hint that it was started by an EV, this thread would be taking a very different path with everyone leaping into action to ‘defend’ the honor of the EV.

An interesting contrast in response.

I don’t suppose Rivian will ever release any details on the cause of this fire, but I wonder how prevalent this may be going forward industry wide, and if any different handling/storage practices will result given the difficulties containing battery fires. Especially in car storage setups where blocks of vehicles are closely packed in together with no easy access to the vehicles in the middle. It’s low-risk, but not no-risk. Maybe I should drop our YouTube mates “Geoff Buys Cars” and “Auto Expert John Cadogan” a line for some enlightenment.
Apologies. It's not particularly pleasant to be shut down, which is what seems to have been done to you. Although I think you're misinterpreting that people don't think it's a big deal. It definitely is. But my feeling is, there really isn't much to talk about. IMHO of course.

We won't know the exact cause of this for a while, if at all. Till then, all you're going to get is a lot of guff, as per the Luton airport fire with loads of speculation.

In terms of the cause, who knows. A huge number of ICE fires are down to arson. This could've been the case, given the hate towards EV.

But I guess the next issue is the spread of fire and I'm not sure what there is to discuss there. Fires spread. Even a row of cars with no battery all would all catch fire if one had gone up in flames. Sure burning batteries and containing fire is a hot topic (excuse the pun) but clearly something the industry is already looking at. I very much doubt many on PH will be able to say or do anything that will improve the industry in any meaningful way.

So we end up going full circle. It's kind of a pointless conversation unfortunately.

Terminator X

16,357 posts

211 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
I'm not a big fan of EV wink I do like the look of that smallest Rivian though.

TX.

Terminator X

16,357 posts

211 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Are we just posting random stories about car park fires now?

OK: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f5889c7ba9b3...

I'll swing by in a few weeks time with some more stories. I hope they're all as interesting as the OP's smile
Just trying to think why there might be less EV fires than petrol in 2024. Nah can't imagine why wink

Will you concede that an EV fire is hard to extinguish though?

TX.

FMOB

1,994 posts

19 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
Definitely a fire sale now.

PetrolHeadInRecovery

152 posts

22 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
TheDeuce said:
Are we just posting random stories about car park fires now?

OK: https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=f5889c7ba9b3...

I'll swing by in a few weeks time with some more stories. I hope they're all as interesting as the OP's smile
Just trying to think why there might be less EV fires than petrol in 2024. Nah can't imagine why wink

Will you concede that an EV fire is hard to extinguish though?

TX.
This Guy Martin clip might be of interest, demonstrates 2 ways of putting out an EV fire: youtube.

The conclusion (from MIRA, paraphrased from the end of clip): EVs are not more dangerous than traditional cars. They're just dangerous in a different way.

N.B. The hydrogen cyanide mentioned is an issue in pretty much all fires when nitrogen-containing material (wool, silk, nylon, polyurethane,...) burns.

N.B2: The "explosions" on the video seem less violent than ones of tyres bursting in fires or burning magnesium car components reacting with water.

TheDeuce

25,227 posts

73 months

Thursday 29th August
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
Quick you and others are with the condescension. I’ve owned an EV for 5+ years, and will probably go full EV daily fleet before too long. So I’m not some anti-EV moron who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

An observation worth pointing out is that in this instance where it’s absolutely certain that the fire was started by a factory fresh EV, and all anyone is interested in doing is waving it on as an irrelevance. If it had been a normal car park, or a car transport ship, for example, containing a variety of vehicles, and there was a tiny hint that it was started by an EV, this thread would be taking a very different path with everyone leaping into action to ‘defend’ the honor of the EV.

An interesting contrast in response.

I don’t suppose Rivian will ever release any details on the cause of this fire, but I wonder how prevalent this may be going forward industry wide, and if any different handling/storage practices will result given the difficulties containing battery fires. Especially in car storage setups where blocks of vehicles are closely packed in together with no easy access to the vehicles in the middle. It’s low-risk, but not no-risk. Maybe I should drop our YouTube mates “Geoff Buys Cars” and “Auto Expert John Cadogan” a line for some enlightenment.
I disagree with that bit. There have been several threads and all I have seen from the EV side is logic and reason - yes, such incidents containing mixed cars 'could' be an EV fire, but its far more likely it was not. That's statistical fact, also a valid reason to question why, for instance, the Luton car park fire ended up in the EV forum just because there happened to be some EV's in the car park.

It's the desperate desire to point to all incidents of EV fires, and to openly hope that more incidents are down to EV than is the reality that rankles. That's not about 'defending the honour' of EV's, which would be stupid, it's about defending intelligent and reasonable conversation.

In all the fire threads I haven't seen anyone claiming EV's can't start fires. They obviously can..

ashenfie

846 posts

53 months

Sunday 1st September
quotequote all
dvs_dave said:
Random car park fire….seriously? New EV’s stored in the dispatch lot of a 100% EV manufacturer means that the fire started with at least one EV. Possible causes are worthy of discussion.

Fact is that whilst very unlikely, EV’s catching fire due to battery failures is a thing that shouldn’t just be waved through as no big deal because other types of cars catch fire more often. It’s still not ‘ok’.

Or must we stifle discussion about it because you don’t want to talk about it and pretend it’s not something that needs to be improved?
Not sure you could produce statistics of your claims. The
Fact that 50 EVs went up shows that even a car manufacture can’t put them out. A ICE car can be put out in seconds. Sadly it a problem without any satisfactory solution.