Granny charger - Can I get an EV tariff still?
Discussion
Morning
Looking to pick up an EV for my wife. Around 10k, so probably a Hyundai Ioniq or something.
I'm aware that most use an EV tariff to charge cheaply overnight - Is a dedicated car charger required for these?
Mileage is low so a granny charger off of a proper external socket would suffice - Just looking to see if I can avoid needing to get a charger installed and still take advantage of the cheap nightly rates.
I'm guessing the choice of car dictates whether this is available too?
Very confusing this EV stuff
Cheers
Looking to pick up an EV for my wife. Around 10k, so probably a Hyundai Ioniq or something.
I'm aware that most use an EV tariff to charge cheaply overnight - Is a dedicated car charger required for these?
Mileage is low so a granny charger off of a proper external socket would suffice - Just looking to see if I can avoid needing to get a charger installed and still take advantage of the cheap nightly rates.
I'm guessing the choice of car dictates whether this is available too?
Very confusing this EV stuff
CheersDo the sums on the tarrif. I have not checked recently, but the daytime tarrifs were higher than non-EV tarrifs when I was looking a while back. We are very low mileage users, so the potential saving on cheap rate charging were not enough to offset the higher daytime p per kwh for all your other electrical usage. Far various reasons we do not want to run dishwasher and washing machine overnight, so when you do the sums on how much your everyday consumption would cost, the saving on the car charging was eaten up. I roughly calculated I would need to do 8k miles a year before it broke even.
I moved to Octopus Go when I got my DS9 PHEV. Using a granny charger which just plugs into a normal 3 pin socket as it's only a 11.9KWh battery. That gives 00:00 - 05:30 at 8.5p with other times at 22.8p .
Intelligent Octopus is even cheaper and more flexible with times but that would have meant installing a proper charger, so not really worth it in my case.
Intelligent Octopus is even cheaper and more flexible with times but that would have meant installing a proper charger, so not really worth it in my case.
'Normal' EV tariffs are just cheaper rate for a fixed time period overnight, and are fine with a three-pin charger. You need a smart meter (to measure the time that energy is used).
Any EV is fine, however if your chosen car lacks the ability to set start and end times for charging (not all can do the latter) then you might want a smart plug (eg Tapo P105) to plug the charger into to activate it only during the cheap rate hours.
There are a couple of 'special' EV tariffs from Octopus and OVO that require either a compatible hard-wired charger or a compatible EV, which may be 'even better' than a standard cheap overnight rate tariff, but on a relatively low mileage it's unlikely to be a big deal.
You can use a granny charger with Octopus Intelligent Go, as long as your EV or PHEV is on their compatibility list of vehicles. They then control when the car charges using access via the cars app for which they have your login details to turn charging on and off on the car.
However I just charge my PHEV using the 6 hour overnight cheap rate slot using an Alexa enabled in-cable switch as the continual login to the car to start and stop charging (sometimes for sequential time slots) just drained the 12V battery so the car then started the ICE the following morning. Octopus support failed to get to the bottom of it, especially why a continuous charging period would be split into several discrete charge periods.
However I just charge my PHEV using the 6 hour overnight cheap rate slot using an Alexa enabled in-cable switch as the continual login to the car to start and stop charging (sometimes for sequential time slots) just drained the 12V battery so the car then started the ICE the following morning. Octopus support failed to get to the bottom of it, especially why a continuous charging period would be split into several discrete charge periods.
One more note, granny charging is often less efficient (so more loss).
There's not that much documentation on it, but it can differ big time.
Of course fully dependent on car and charger, but in general the granny charger is going to have the biggest losses.
In the Zoe they recorded losses of up to 25% on a granny charger
, and this went down to a slightly more acceptable 10 percent on an 11kw wallbox.
https://insideevs.com/features/711659/ev-charger-e...
Some man maths there can maybe justify a wall box, making it easier to schedule within the cheapest hours and just overall faster charging if ever needed.
There's not that much documentation on it, but it can differ big time.
Of course fully dependent on car and charger, but in general the granny charger is going to have the biggest losses.
In the Zoe they recorded losses of up to 25% on a granny charger
, and this went down to a slightly more acceptable 10 percent on an 11kw wallbox.https://insideevs.com/features/711659/ev-charger-e...
Some man maths there can maybe justify a wall box, making it easier to schedule within the cheapest hours and just overall faster charging if ever needed.
Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 13th August 08:46
kambites said:
Yes you can get an EV tariff, but probably not the cheapest of them.
For example with Octopus, you can get "Octopus Go" without a compatible charger but you can't get "Intelligent Octopus Go" which is slightly cheaper.
No this is wrong. Intelligent Go, and standard Go just need either a compatible charger or a compatible car. There's a quick question set on the Octopus website.For example with Octopus, you can get "Octopus Go" without a compatible charger but you can't get "Intelligent Octopus Go" which is slightly cheaper.
If anything the granny-only case is better on Intelligent Go because there is potentially a greater time to charge at the relatively slow rate the Granny can manage, and you consequently get more cheap rate.
Been using a granny charger for my wife’s Kuga Phev for nearly a year, although just got a proper charger fitted for incoming EV.
Was using EDF (7p kwh 0000-0500) and also run the appliances during that period.
Used the Ford Pass timer, it’s a rubbish app though, absolutely hopeless
Recently discovered the cause of an ongoing problem. Set it to 0000-0500, sometimes it started charging straight away.
Found that it throws an undocumented wobbler if the car doesn’t think it can charge within the set time.
So set it from 0000-0600.
It fires up at 0000 & does finish before 0500.
Hopeless software.
POS.
Next will try to wipe that (not as easy as it sounds) & rely on the proper charger to decide.
Was using EDF (7p kwh 0000-0500) and also run the appliances during that period.
Used the Ford Pass timer, it’s a rubbish app though, absolutely hopeless
Recently discovered the cause of an ongoing problem. Set it to 0000-0500, sometimes it started charging straight away.
Found that it throws an undocumented wobbler if the car doesn’t think it can charge within the set time.
So set it from 0000-0600.
It fires up at 0000 & does finish before 0500.
Hopeless software.
POS.
Next will try to wipe that (not as easy as it sounds) & rely on the proper charger to decide.
GT6k said:
kambites said:
Yes you can get an EV tariff, but probably not the cheapest of them.
For example with Octopus, you can get "Octopus Go" without a compatible charger but you can't get "Intelligent Octopus Go" which is slightly cheaper.
No this is wrong. Intelligent Go, and standard Go just need either a compatible charger or a compatible car. There's a quick question set on the Octopus website.For example with Octopus, you can get "Octopus Go" without a compatible charger but you can't get "Intelligent Octopus Go" which is slightly cheaper.
I’m with EDF and just swapped to an EV style tariff (5 hours a night from midnight at 9p including VAT). Maybe not the cheapest but it was convenient as I’m with them and just required a phone call. Was looking in to get a wall charger until I realised that a Granny should give me around 35 miles a night and I only do 200 a week so dropped the wall charger idea and saving the £900.
Not got the car yet (Honda e:Ny1 on the recent mad deal) but it has scheduled recharge timing built in so should be able to cope. I also heat my hot water via an immersion heater so that will go on at midnight too. Hoping that all in all there won’t be a significant rise in energy cost and my petrol bill will be zero :-)
Not got the car yet (Honda e:Ny1 on the recent mad deal) but it has scheduled recharge timing built in so should be able to cope. I also heat my hot water via an immersion heater so that will go on at midnight too. Hoping that all in all there won’t be a significant rise in energy cost and my petrol bill will be zero :-)
kambites said:
Yeah but the Ioniq the OP is considering isn't a compatible car. Are there compatible granny chargers? I guess there's no fundamental reason why there shouldn't be but most of them are pretty dumb.
Any granny charger is compatible, they’re not ‘clever’, you just need a three pin plug and the cable that came with the car. You tell the Octopus app the throughput (choice of 2?) so when the car says it’s 20% full it knows how long to setup the charge sequences for.
Or turn off smart charging and just let it charge in the 11:30 to 5:30 low rate window.
I charge our Mini SE on 3 pin with Octopus Intelligent Go tariff. Got our average rate for whole house and car down to 14p per kWh.
https://share.octopus.energy/red-rain-518
https://share.octopus.energy/red-rain-518
Edited by Mark-ri571 on Wednesday 14th August 07:57
Edited by Mark-ri571 on Wednesday 14th August 07:58
I have no need for an electric car charger but did change elec suppliers last month.
Utility warehouse at the time had off peak at 6.2p I think and after the cap rise jobby it's up to 6.7p/ 6.8p or something. The peak is in the 30s though.
Good for us because we have economy 7 using about 75% of our total.
It isn't marketed as a elec car tariff.
By the way UW is top rated on Which? magazine.
Utility warehouse at the time had off peak at 6.2p I think and after the cap rise jobby it's up to 6.7p/ 6.8p or something. The peak is in the 30s though.
Good for us because we have economy 7 using about 75% of our total.
It isn't marketed as a elec car tariff.
By the way UW is top rated on Which? magazine.
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