Charge pricing on the way down?
Discussion
Noticed that rates are seeming to be on the way down for public charging. Only the likes of Instavolt are staying at the peak pricing by the look of it,
Plenty around the 65p mark now, and discounting available by subscribing. think tesla's cheapest rate at the trafford centre is 22p now, albeit in the middle of the night.
hopefully the supermarkets wading in to the market will bring prices down further.
Plenty around the 65p mark now, and discounting available by subscribing. think tesla's cheapest rate at the trafford centre is 22p now, albeit in the middle of the night.
hopefully the supermarkets wading in to the market will bring prices down further.
I cannot see any reason why en-route high speed charging prices will drop much lower.
Whilst the commodity price of the energy will drop - the business case for the CPO’s is challenging at best and any opportunity to create a wider margin will be gratefully received I suspect.
The cost of putting charging in the ground is high with land leases, hardware, and grid connections all very costly and payback is only possible from a margin per kWh sold.
And with utilisation still very low - likely 30 - 40% - it is a difficult gig.
Whilst the commodity price of the energy will drop - the business case for the CPO’s is challenging at best and any opportunity to create a wider margin will be gratefully received I suspect.
The cost of putting charging in the ground is high with land leases, hardware, and grid connections all very costly and payback is only possible from a margin per kWh sold.
And with utilisation still very low - likely 30 - 40% - it is a difficult gig.
Rarely use them, but just looked at Zapp Map and the ones I tend to go to when I do (Gridserve and Ionity don't seem to have moved downwards yet).
Make prices too high and people will find alternatives, so they won't get the pay back anyway.
Personally, if they were much more sensibly priced I'd think about journey planning less. Though they're unlikely to make much cash out of me anyway as I rarely use them....that might change a little over the next 12mths as I make a more regular long journey. Though if that stretches beyond the next 12mths it might actually make sense to get a destination charger installed.
GAVGOLF said:
I cannot see any reason why en-route high speed charging prices will drop much lower.
Whilst the commodity price of the energy will drop - the business case for the CPO’s is challenging at best and any opportunity to create a wider margin will be gratefully received I suspect.
The cost of putting charging in the ground is high with land leases, hardware, and grid connections all very costly and payback is only possible from a margin per kWh sold.
And with utilisation still very low - likely 30 - 40% - it is a difficult gig.
Double edged sword...Whilst the commodity price of the energy will drop - the business case for the CPO’s is challenging at best and any opportunity to create a wider margin will be gratefully received I suspect.
The cost of putting charging in the ground is high with land leases, hardware, and grid connections all very costly and payback is only possible from a margin per kWh sold.
And with utilisation still very low - likely 30 - 40% - it is a difficult gig.
Make prices too high and people will find alternatives, so they won't get the pay back anyway.
Personally, if they were much more sensibly priced I'd think about journey planning less. Though they're unlikely to make much cash out of me anyway as I rarely use them....that might change a little over the next 12mths as I make a more regular long journey. Though if that stretches beyond the next 12mths it might actually make sense to get a destination charger installed.
tamore said:
Noticed that rates are seeming to be on the way down for public charging.
Are they?BP: 85p
Instavolt: 85p
Shell: 89p
Fastned: 69p
Ionity: 74p
Tesla: 52p peak - 41p off peak
Gridserve: 70p
I'm not sure what they were 6 months ago, but I don't think they have moved much.
The new local chargers which have gone in at the shops near us (short stay 7kW
) are 50p per kWhTheRainMaker said:
tamore said:
Noticed that rates are seeming to be on the way down for public charging.
Are they?BP: 85p
Instavolt: 85p
Shell: 89p
Fastned: 69p
Ionity: 74p
Tesla: 52p peak - 41p off peak
Gridserve: 70p
I'm not sure what they were 6 months ago, but I don't think they have moved much.
The new local chargers which have gone in at the shops near us (short stay 7kW
) are 50p per kWhinstavolt are an outlier from the charging only companies. gridserve giving 20% off for the summer. swarco 64p. the trajectory is down.
Factually for me it has an impact. I simply don’t bother taking the EV on any longer drive that involves public charging. I used to when prices were reasonable but no reason to do it now. I’m even looking at PHEVs with the larger batteries, for fairly obvious reasons. So yeah, good luck with the extortionate public charger pricing.
DMZ said:
Factually for me it has an impact. I simply don’t bother taking the EV on any longer drive that involves public charging. I used to when prices were reasonable but no reason to do it now. I’m even looking at PHEVs with the larger batteries, for fairly obvious reasons. So yeah, good luck with the extortionate public charger pricing.
that's fair enough. the prices are nuts. fortunately in 18000 miles i reckon i've had to charge on one of these less than 10 times. TheRainMaker said:
Are they?
BP: 85p
Instavolt: 85p
Shell: 89p
Fastned: 69p
Ionity: 74p
Tesla: 52p peak - 41p off peak
Gridserve: 70p
I'm not sure what they were 6 months ago, but I don't think they have moved much.
The new local chargers which have gone in at the shops near us (short stay 7kW ) are 50p per kWh
Gridserve are offering 20% off charging until 30th Sep when you initiate the charge via the app. BP: 85p
Instavolt: 85p
Shell: 89p
Fastned: 69p
Ionity: 74p
Tesla: 52p peak - 41p off peak
Gridserve: 70p
I'm not sure what they were 6 months ago, but I don't think they have moved much.
The new local chargers which have gone in at the shops near us (short stay 7kW
) are 50p per kWhone of the biggest holdbacks for ev adoption apart from the initial purchase price is the cost of charging if you can't charge at home. in Norwich there's a tesla open to all charger that costs 34-43p p/kwh (depending on time of day) a 30 sec drive from them on the opposite side of the road are some mfg chargers costing 79p p/kwh. a lot of people won't realise they could charge at tesla then use mfg and complain about how expensive running an ev is. other than to protect their oil interests there is no reason for the likes of shell and bp to rip people off they way they do.
Edited by Screechmr2 on Sunday 4th August 11:59
The supermarket rapid chargers are great, and are starting to compete on price, which is really great.
I always try and use supermarket rapid charger on a longer trip, it's a no brainer. The chargers are all new, almost always seem to work with my octopus electroverse tap and go card, and perhaps most importantly, they tank ZERO time to charge...
By zero time, I mean that whatever time it actually takes, I can spend food shopping (wine/steak mostly
) that I would need to do anyway. As such, it's zero time. The chargers are also typically 150kw, so even if you only need a quick shop or a pee and coffee, you're picking up 100+ miles of range.
Looking to the short term future, I can easily imagine the supermarkets extending their (often already generous) number of chargers and aggressively pushing down the per kw price to attract shoppers. That's bound to have a knock on effect on non supermarket charging hubs too.
I always try and use supermarket rapid charger on a longer trip, it's a no brainer. The chargers are all new, almost always seem to work with my octopus electroverse tap and go card, and perhaps most importantly, they tank ZERO time to charge...
By zero time, I mean that whatever time it actually takes, I can spend food shopping (wine/steak mostly
) that I would need to do anyway. As such, it's zero time. The chargers are also typically 150kw, so even if you only need a quick shop or a pee and coffee, you're picking up 100+ miles of range.Looking to the short term future, I can easily imagine the supermarkets extending their (often already generous) number of chargers and aggressively pushing down the per kw price to attract shoppers. That's bound to have a knock on effect on non supermarket charging hubs too.
TheRainMaker said:
tamore said:
Noticed that rates are seeming to be on the way down for public charging.
Are they?BP: 85p
Instavolt: 85p
Shell: 89p
Fastned: 69p
Ionity: 74p
Tesla: 52p peak - 41p off peak
Gridserve: 70p
I'm not sure what they were 6 months ago, but I don't think they have moved much.
The new local chargers which have gone in at the shops near us (short stay 7kW
) are 50p per kWhP675 said:
Is there any easy way to calculate a long journey cost? It's not like petrol where you just need the average mpg and how long it is. You need the initial charge from home which is a different cost to public chargers, which can also be different prices..
A Better Route Planner will advise on a sequence of stops and predict how much charge you'll need at each and the rate, and add it up for a total cost for the en-route charging.This doesn't include the cost of charging your own EV to 100% on your domestic electricity, but that's pretty much a constant you can easily work out on the basis of usable capacity times rate paid (it's a bit under £4 for me).
P675 said:
Is there any easy way to calculate a long journey cost? It's not like petrol where you just need the average mpg and how long it is. You need the initial charge from home which is a different cost to public chargers, which can also be different prices..
Unless you charge exclusively using public chargers, does it matter...?Most drivers will only use public chargers a handful of times per year, most of the time they won't even pay attention to what the rate is.
I'm sure there is a reasonably straightforward way to calculate the true cost. I just don't think most people will care.
TheDeuce said:
Unless you charge exclusively using public chargers, does it matter...?
Most drivers will only use public chargers a handful of times per year, most of the time they won't even pay attention to what the rate is.
I'm sure there is a reasonably straightforward way to calculate the true cost. I just don't think most people will care.
Yes if I want to budget for a trip I want to know how much it will cost to drive there. Most drivers will only use public chargers a handful of times per year, most of the time they won't even pay attention to what the rate is.
I'm sure there is a reasonably straightforward way to calculate the true cost. I just don't think most people will care.
P675 said:
TheDeuce said:
Unless you charge exclusively using public chargers, does it matter...?
Most drivers will only use public chargers a handful of times per year, most of the time they won't even pay attention to what the rate is.
I'm sure there is a reasonably straightforward way to calculate the true cost. I just don't think most people will care.
Yes if I want to budget for a trip I want to know how much it will cost to drive there. Most drivers will only use public chargers a handful of times per year, most of the time they won't even pay attention to what the rate is.
I'm sure there is a reasonably straightforward way to calculate the true cost. I just don't think most people will care.
But I expect it's as accurate as any similar attempt to calculate refuelling costs on a long trip. Did you give that any more thought beyond assumed mpg and 'typical' fuel costs?
The answer to the question is 'yes' BTW, regardless of how important a question it is, just go here https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
An issue which will factor into the pricing by the commercial chargers is people being able to charge at home - and I don't mean the EV owner's home but other people's homes that they are visiting.
When visiting relatives where the distance is too far to complete on a single charge then previously for me that did require using commercial chargers. However now a few of those relatives have bought EVs themselves and have home chargers, so when visiting them or them us, the car is simply charged on the home charger. And I cannot be in a unique situation, and I can see that being replicated over many (most?) households.
That does put pressure on the commercial charger operators as to who their customer group is, as can they just rely on business travellers who don't give a damn about price and the few long journeys that some people make each year to a hotel or similar?
But then you have the issue of those who cannot charge at home because they don't have a drive - now for those chargers there is no real incentive to bring down prices as those customers have no option.
Thus I can see that there will be a narrowing of the price difference between the DC high speed chargers and the AC overnight chargers with the price of the AC charger (and VAT at 20% not the domestic 5%) being the floor and effectively a price supplement for the faster charging with the DC chargers.
When visiting relatives where the distance is too far to complete on a single charge then previously for me that did require using commercial chargers. However now a few of those relatives have bought EVs themselves and have home chargers, so when visiting them or them us, the car is simply charged on the home charger. And I cannot be in a unique situation, and I can see that being replicated over many (most?) households.
That does put pressure on the commercial charger operators as to who their customer group is, as can they just rely on business travellers who don't give a damn about price and the few long journeys that some people make each year to a hotel or similar?
But then you have the issue of those who cannot charge at home because they don't have a drive - now for those chargers there is no real incentive to bring down prices as those customers have no option.
Thus I can see that there will be a narrowing of the price difference between the DC high speed chargers and the AC overnight chargers with the price of the AC charger (and VAT at 20% not the domestic 5%) being the floor and effectively a price supplement for the faster charging with the DC chargers.
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