Will BMW regret compromising the i5 tomorrow?

[plfrench]

With the launch of the A6 e-tron tomorrow, will BMW regret their decision to compromise the i5 by platform sharing with ICE5 series? Judging by the very good reviews the Macan and Q6 are getting, this should be pretty good!

[raspy]

I doubt it. BMW outsold both MB and Audi combined when it comes to EVs this year.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/07/27/bmw-leads-in-el...

[plfrench]

That was without much competition for the i4 though. The 5 / A6 / E class space has always been pretty popular with company car drivers - I can see this taking a huge percentage of that market which in the UK will mainly be EV due to company policies these days.

Times are moving on and I think this A6 is going to be so well received that the tables will quickly turn.

In my opinion BMW took a gamble on getting to market quick with shared platforms, but now the true EV-first competition is arriving, I think it will leave them floundering. Great times for the consumer though - competition should drive many benefits.

[PSRG]

The MB EQE is on a dedicated platform, and outside of taxis in London you see very few of them on the road. The i5, which was designed to be on a shared platform, does seem to be selling better to the company car market, so I am not sure the dedicated platform alone is what will make the difference for Audi. The EQEs lack of success might however be down to the fact that it looks a little odd!! The Audi should look much better. But, in single motor form will it be RWD? Does that that make it the first RWD Audi? Or is there no single motor version?

[Uncle boshy]

Looking at the specs I’m not seeing a significant compromise by bmw or indeed advantage offered by Audi.

Biggest differences to me is body style. If you want an suv you’ll buy the Audi, if you want a saloon or estate you’ll buy the bmw.

More importantly for me is both firms starting to advance their ev products

[ZesPak]

PSRG said:

Does that that make it the first RWD Audi? Or is there no single motor version?

Iirc there's a RWD R8

plfrench said:

In my opinion BMW took a gamble on getting to market quick with shared platforms, but now the true EV-first competition is arriving, I think it will leave them floundering. Great times for the consumer though - competition should drive many benefits.

We also have to aknowledge that VAG and BMW have to scale differently. VAG has got platform sharing down. The Q4, ID4, Enyaq for example.
They can easily afford a platform like this as it could be used by the next Passat and Superb.

BMW has to share mainly within their own stable, hence a shared platform between 5-series and i5 makes more sense to them.
Being first to market was indeed important to offset the compromises.

I've always liked the look of the non-Q Audi's, but I never got on with how they drove. I could be tempted by an electric A6 if it rides better than the ICE version.

[kambites]

It kinda feels like swings and roundabouts at the moment. Yes a dedicated EV platform is going to make for a better EV, but running two platforms in parallel is expensive and inevitably results in spending less on fine-tuning each product. Just look at the extent to which the perceived quality of both the ID3 and the Golf mk8 dropped compared to the mk7 Golf; one has to imagine that's due to what was previously "the Golf budget" being split between the two cars.

Obviously VAG have enormous economies of scale to ultimately make up for the extra platform, BMW don't.

[plfrench]

Uncle boshy said:

Looking at the specs I’m not seeing a significant compromise by bmw or indeed advantage offered by Audi.

Biggest differences to me is body style. If you want an suv you’ll buy the Audi, if you want a saloon or estate you’ll buy the bmw.

More importantly for me is both firms starting to advance their ev products

This is a saloon (actually hatch I think) or estate.

[Uncle boshy]

Your quite right, was looking at the q6

[TheDeuce]

The BMW platform is designed for ICE and EV, so while it's still a compromise it's better than some early EV's that had to shoe-horn the powertrain into a platform not really intended for it.

And the resulting cars are very good, BMW has done a great job so far imo.

Their upcoming EV only platform is expected to be a significant leap forward too. The fact they put out the i4 and i5 ahead of that being ready... that's not a bad thing or a mistake. The cars are good, it made sense.

[Paul Drawmer]

I wonder how many 5 series buyers actually care/understand about a ground up EV platform. Not the majority would be my guess.

[JonnyVTEC]

Exactly. They are all sat on batteries at the end of the day.

[Tiglon]

Paul Drawmer said:

I wonder how many 5 series buyers actually care/understand about a ground up EV platform. Not the majority would be my guess.

99% won't have a clue what that means, most of the other 1% won't care. They'll pick the one they "like" the most, or the one they think looks most impressive on their driveway...

[TheDeuce]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Paul Drawmer said:

I wonder how many 5 series buyers actually care/understand about a ground up EV platform. Not the majority would be my guess.

That’s been BMW’s brilliant idea. “I want a 5 series”. Great, you can have a diesel, a petrol or an electric. They all look the same, and have the same features.

“I want a 4 series”. Repeat.

“I want a X series”. Repeat.

It’ll be the same with the new 3 series.

They’re not trying to sell an electric car. They’re selling a BMW. The opposite is the reason why VW aren’t selling. If they’d just made a Golf and a Passat with an electric drivetrain, yes it wouldn’t be the perfect EV design, but it would have been a much easier sell than the ID range.

And this is why Audi are ‘just’ building an electric A6.

Very well put.

Why delay if they can already produce the cars to the standard people expect? I know full well the next generation of my i4 will be lighter, lower CoG, better packaged and so on. But the one I have today is very already and totally deserved to be produced.

[kambites]

Paul Drawmer said:

I wonder how many 5 series buyers actually care/understand about a ground up EV platform. Not the majority would be my guess.

I don't think anyone knows or cares about the platform as such, any more than the average Audi A3 buyer cares that it's built on the same platform as the Octavia. The question is whether the fact it's built on a platform designed to take an internal combustion engine will have any effect on things they do care about such as interior space, ride comfort, NVH, range and performance.

I guess group tests will reveal that to some extent but regardless, it's a well known fact that many people buy a new car just because it has the same badge as their old car, rather than because they've driven the alternatives and picked the car they liked best. The easiest way to give a petrol 5-series owner a warm and fuzzy feeling about swapping to an EV is to let them buy an electric 5-series.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 31st July 11:44

[TheDeuce]

kambites said:

Paul Drawmer said:

I wonder how many 5 series buyers actually care/understand about a ground up EV platform. Not the majority would be my guess.

I don't think anyone knows or cares about the platform as such, any more than the average Audi A3 buyer cares that it's built on the same platform as the Octavia. The question is whether the fact it's built on a platform designed to take an internal combustion engine will have any effect on things they do care about such as interior space, ride comfort and NVH.

I guess group tests will reveal that to some extent but regardless, it's a well known fact that many people buy a new car just because it has the same badge as their old car, rather than because they've driven the alternatives and picked the car they liked best.

I look at it as this being a first 4 and 5 series, and the buyers that will look at it are also almost all going to be coming from cars that have ICE characteristics such as a transmission tunnel bump in the rear - and they're frankly not going to care, they won't notice anything different or anything they ever really questioned.

The electric cars, for anyone who doesn't need huge regular range (virtually nobody) are going to be a great step up from the ICE variants in several important areas, and with no compromise in terms of practicality etc, from what the same drivers have had previously. They'll just get a nice surprise in another few years when they change car again and suddenly the new ones feel even better to drive, better packaged and go further.

[JonnyVTEC]

Oh look the new A6 on PPE has the same fat sill issue all BEV Estates and saloons have and people wonder why SUVs are being made first.

BMW have advantage to flex the 5 series now to suite the demand of powertrain choice on CLAR - i cant see why they would regret that.

[plfrench]

JonnyVTEC said:

Oh look the new A6 on PPE has the same fat sill issue all BEV Estates and saloons have and people wonder why SUVs are being made first.

BMW have advantage to flex the 5 series now to suite the demand of powertrain choice on CLAR - i cant see why they would regret that.

Because I don’t think they’ll sell many 5 series at all after today. ICE was always a bit pointless for this class of car in the UK due to most being fleet purchases (hence why they ditched Diesel completely). Audi have now launched something that is cheaper, better looking, better packaging and has greater range. What does that leave the i5 with?

[ZesPak]

JonnyVTEC said:

Oh look the new A6 on PPE has the same fat sill issue all BEV Estates and saloons have and people wonder why SUVs are being made first.

BMW have advantage to flex the 5 series now to suite the demand of powertrain choice on CLAR - i cant see why they would regret that.

It'll be tbd when Audi brings out the numbers.
The main thing is packaging I'd say, if people cross shop both cars and they manage to vastly improve the packaging.
Aside from the quality difference, just cross shop an ID3 with a Golf. Sitting inside both they are in a different class in terms of interior space.
Another good example is the boot space of a Tesla Model S vs it's 5m long rivals.

As others said, it doesn't matter if you sell a 5 series and people buy a 5 series, but it might be that putting the two next to each other will paint a very different image. Even the lack of a central tunnel in the back can give the impression of a lot more space.

[patch5674]

Coming at this with a bit of inherent bias in that I have ordered an i5 touring, but I am really a fan of Audi A6's avants and estates generally. But for me on looks alone this one doesn't do it for me particularly side on (Personal opinion)

I watched the Autogefuhl video on YouTube and don't see anything in the Audi that makes me regret my choice. The interior doesn't look great to me but I understand that people might say the same about the i5.

The A6 looks seriously cramped in the back (As did/does the Q6 in his video on that). I also think that the BMW should have more room in the back given it's size but the Audi is ridiculous.

Lots of people including on this thread keep harping on about how the i5 is compromised in myriad ways, but don't actually demonstrate how, but Audi has a ground up EV platform in PPE and seems to have come away with a worse product from a passenger comfort perspective. I also really don't think real customers actually care about a transmission tunnel in the middle of the back or frunks.

I do concede that the Audi has a bigger battery breaking the 90Kwh mark whereas the BMW's is 84 (82 useable). This may be a benefit of PPE.