Range goes down faster than actual mileage covered
Discussion
Hi all,
We've just recently got a new to us e-golf (2020). Love the car, aware the range is not the greatest (130 miles on 80% charge) but that's not a problem as it's just for short journeys around us here.
However, the wife mentioned that she set off to York from Wetherby with 85 miles range showing on the dashboard. By the time she got there the range was showing 40 miles left for a journey that's around 15 miles on generally flat land along b-roads. She didn't have the air/con on either but felt that she wouldn't be able to make the journey back home and so had to find somewhere to charge.
Is this normal? Is there something we should be checking, or is there a way to understand how much range we actually have. The power range shows full all the time but the range is the most descriptive indicator we have.
Thanks in advance,
EDIT: or point to any resources/threads we can use to understand this in more detail. Thanks,
We've just recently got a new to us e-golf (2020). Love the car, aware the range is not the greatest (130 miles on 80% charge) but that's not a problem as it's just for short journeys around us here.
However, the wife mentioned that she set off to York from Wetherby with 85 miles range showing on the dashboard. By the time she got there the range was showing 40 miles left for a journey that's around 15 miles on generally flat land along b-roads. She didn't have the air/con on either but felt that she wouldn't be able to make the journey back home and so had to find somewhere to charge.
Is this normal? Is there something we should be checking, or is there a way to understand how much range we actually have. The power range shows full all the time but the range is the most descriptive indicator we have.
Thanks in advance,
EDIT: or point to any resources/threads we can use to understand this in more detail. Thanks,
130 miles on 80% charge is going some! Ours was nearer that on a full charge.
Probably all you're seeing is that is is basing that estimate on recent use. So trundling around town etc then that's probably reasonable. As soon as you start using in a way where it is using more power, so fast cruising on country lanes / motorways etc, it will then reassess how much distance you'll be able to cover if you continue using in that way.
I've found EV database to be quite a useful estimate of real world range.
As you can see, depending on use and temperature, the e-Golf could be expected to give between 80-175 miles on a full charge.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-G...
Probably all you're seeing is that is is basing that estimate on recent use. So trundling around town etc then that's probably reasonable. As soon as you start using in a way where it is using more power, so fast cruising on country lanes / motorways etc, it will then reassess how much distance you'll be able to cover if you continue using in that way.
I've found EV database to be quite a useful estimate of real world range.
As you can see, depending on use and temperature, the e-Golf could be expected to give between 80-175 miles on a full charge.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-G...
The other thing that doesn't help on the e-Golf if I recall correctly, is that it doesn't have a % charge display, only a range in miles. You could use the gauge to estimate 'fullness', and this might be easier to help mentally estimate how far you'll be able to go with a given driving style and use.
On most EVs the 'range' indication or GOM (Guess-o-Meter) displays a calculation based on recent driving. Which is fine if your driving style and roads used don't vary much.
However, if you use a full charge to just potter about in mostly open urban roads with low speeds an little starting and stopping, and then recharge; the GOM is going to show a really optimistic figure. Now take that car and join the motorway and start cruising at higher speeds, then the range display will fall really quickly, much faster than the actual miles covered.
Conversely, I've arrived home after a 'spirited' motorway blast, recharged overnight and had a correspondingly low range showing the next morning. In this case, by driving slowly, the range will initially increase.
The range indication is only a guess based on recent usage.
However, if you use a full charge to just potter about in mostly open urban roads with low speeds an little starting and stopping, and then recharge; the GOM is going to show a really optimistic figure. Now take that car and join the motorway and start cruising at higher speeds, then the range display will fall really quickly, much faster than the actual miles covered.
Conversely, I've arrived home after a 'spirited' motorway blast, recharged overnight and had a correspondingly low range showing the next morning. In this case, by driving slowly, the range will initially increase.
The range indication is only a guess based on recent usage.
plfrench said:
130 miles on 80% charge is going some! Ours was nearer that on a full charge.
Probably all you're seeing is that is is basing that estimate on recent use. So trundling around town etc then that's probably reasonable. As soon as you start using in a way where it is using more power, so fast cruising on country lanes / motorways etc, it will then reassess how much distance you'll be able to cover if you continue using in that way.
I've found EV database to be quite a useful estimate of real world range.
As you can see, depending on use and temperature, the e-Golf could be expected to give between 80-175 miles on a full charge.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-G...
Yes, that might be closer to 100% it was overnight but I wasn't measuring.Probably all you're seeing is that is is basing that estimate on recent use. So trundling around town etc then that's probably reasonable. As soon as you start using in a way where it is using more power, so fast cruising on country lanes / motorways etc, it will then reassess how much distance you'll be able to cover if you continue using in that way.
I've found EV database to be quite a useful estimate of real world range.
As you can see, depending on use and temperature, the e-Golf could be expected to give between 80-175 miles on a full charge.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-G...
That link is useful, thanks
plfrench said:
The other thing that doesn't help on the e-Golf if I recall correctly, is that it doesn't have a % charge display, only a range in miles. You could use the gauge to estimate 'fullness', and this might be easier to help mentally estimate how far you'll be able to go with a given driving style and use.
There is a power gauge, which shows the amount of power available. When the range is low then my understanding is that the engine won't deliver the top power:So, the thing is, the range was really low, but the power available was still pointing at the top available. So it's something we have to understand, how far can we actually go baring in mind that the dashboard is telling us.
Paul Drawmer said:
On most EVs the 'range' indication or GOM (Guess-o-Meter) displays a calculation based on recent driving. Which is fine if your driving style and roads used don't vary much.
However, if you use a full charge to just potter about in mostly open urban roads with low speeds an little starting and stopping, and then recharge; the GOM is going to show a really optimistic figure. Now take that car and join the motorway and start cruising at higher speeds, then the range display will fall really quickly, much faster than the actual miles covered.
Conversely, I've arrived home after a 'spirited' motorway blast, recharged overnight and had a correspondingly low range showing the next morning. In this case, by driving slowly, the range will initially increase.
The range indication is only a guess based on recent usage.
That is also interesting, we were pottering around I'll have a look into that.However, if you use a full charge to just potter about in mostly open urban roads with low speeds an little starting and stopping, and then recharge; the GOM is going to show a really optimistic figure. Now take that car and join the motorway and start cruising at higher speeds, then the range display will fall really quickly, much faster than the actual miles covered.
Conversely, I've arrived home after a 'spirited' motorway blast, recharged overnight and had a correspondingly low range showing the next morning. In this case, by driving slowly, the range will initially increase.
The range indication is only a guess based on recent usage.
SpanishTony said:
Hi all,
We've just recently got a new to us e-golf (2020). Love the car, aware the range is not the greatest (130 miles on 80% charge) but that's not a problem as it's just for short journeys around us here.
However, the wife mentioned that she set off to York from Wetherby with 85 miles range showing on the dashboard. By the time she got there the range was showing 40 miles left for a journey that's around 15 miles on generally flat land along b-roads. She didn't have the air/con on either but felt that she wouldn't be able to make the journey back home and so had to find somewhere to charge.
This is a common issue reported by new EV drivers, it takes some thought and experience to get to grips with.We've just recently got a new to us e-golf (2020). Love the car, aware the range is not the greatest (130 miles on 80% charge) but that's not a problem as it's just for short journeys around us here.
However, the wife mentioned that she set off to York from Wetherby with 85 miles range showing on the dashboard. By the time she got there the range was showing 40 miles left for a journey that's around 15 miles on generally flat land along b-roads. She didn't have the air/con on either but felt that she wouldn't be able to make the journey back home and so had to find somewhere to charge.
The first thing is that the range on the dashboard is an estimate, taken by measuring the remaining energy in the battery (in kWh) and multiplying it by the expected efficiency (in miles per kWh). The battery energy is a fact, whereas the expected efficiency is just a guess, and it's based on what efficiency has been achieved recently.
The second thing is that efficiency in an EV varies depending how you drive, being much better in low speed traffic than at sustained high speeds. So if you drive around urban roads at an average of 30mph you might get 4.5 miles per kWh, whereas at a sustained 60mph or 70mph you might only get 3 miles per kWh.
The whole battery is around 24 kWh, so at 4.5 m/kWh you would have a range of 108 miles, whereas at 3 m/kWh that would give you a full range of 72 miles.
Now for your case. If for example the car had been used for slow local driving for a while, it might have run at an efficiency of 4.5 m/kWh. Lets assume the battery had 19 kWh in it (approx 80% of 24 kWh full capacity). Your wife looks at the dash before setting off, the car multiplies 19 x 4.5 and gets 85.5 miles, so that's what it shows on the dash.
Your wife then drives the 15 miles into York, doing mostly 60mph or so and getting 3 miles/kWh. The energy consumed is therefore 15 / 3 = 5 kWh used. The remaining energy in the battery is thus 19 - 5 = 14 kWh left.
Arriving in York, your wife looks at the dashboard again. The recent efficiency is now 3 miles/kWh, the car multiplies the remaining charge by this to get 14 x 3 = 42 miles remaining, so this is (about) what it shows on the dash.
The driver naturally looks at this and thinks "I've used more than half of my range getting here, so I can't get back without charging".
However in reality the 40 miles showing is valid for the current efficiency of 3 miles/kWh, so the car would in fact do the return trip of 15 miles without an issue, with ~25 miles to spare.
Hence why the range display in EVs is generally known as the 'Guessometer', as it's based on estimated efficiency which varies with driving conditions, and hence can swing unpredictably.
What I do in my e-C4 is to get the trip efficiency up on the dashboard in miles/kWh, as well as the battery charge meter which shows me roughly what fraction of the full battery capacity I have left.
I know the full battery capacity in kWh, so I can work out from the dial about how many kWh I have left. I then multiply that by the trip efficiency (miles/kWh) to get my remaining range available.
So in your wife's case, on arriving in York the battery dial was probably showing a bit over half (14/24 kWh = 58%). I'd estimate half to be on the safe side, half of 24 is 12 kWh left, 12 x 3 = 36 miles remaining range that I'd be confident of doing.
Generally the same as ICE cars. Rarely will I look at the 'miles to empty' but instead look at the fuel gauge. The GOM is a guide, but the battery charge state % is a better guide. Wait till you get to winter, the GOM will be even more out.
I don't know the Golf but have you found the miles per KWH figure, which might be for that trip or since the counter was reset? Can be useful to understand how heavy footed (or not) you are.
I don't know the Golf but have you found the miles per KWH figure, which might be for that trip or since the counter was reset? Can be useful to understand how heavy footed (or not) you are.
samoht said:
This is a common issue reported by new EV drivers, it takes some thought and experience to get to grips with.
The first thing is that the range on the dashboard is an estimate, taken by measuring the remaining energy in the battery (in kWh) and multiplying it by the expected efficiency (in miles per kWh). The battery energy is a fact, whereas the expected efficiency is just a guess, and it's based on what efficiency has been achieved recently.
The second thing is that efficiency in an EV varies depending how you drive, being much better in low speed traffic than at sustained high speeds. So if you drive around urban roads at an average of 30mph you might get 4.5 miles per kWh, whereas at a sustained 60mph or 70mph you might only get 3 miles per kWh.
The whole battery is around 24 kWh, so at 4.5 m/kWh you would have a range of 108 miles, whereas at 3 m/kWh that would give you a full range of 72 miles.
Now for your case. If for example the car had been used for slow local driving for a while, it might have run at an efficiency of 4.5 m/kWh. Lets assume the battery had 19 kWh in it (approx 80% of 24 kWh full capacity). Your wife looks at the dash before setting off, the car multiplies 19 x 4.5 and gets 85.5 miles, so that's what it shows on the dash.
Your wife then drives the 15 miles into York, doing mostly 60mph or so and getting 3 miles/kWh. The energy consumed is therefore 15 / 3 = 5 kWh used. The remaining energy in the battery is thus 19 - 5 = 14 kWh left.
Arriving in York, your wife looks at the dashboard again. The recent efficiency is now 3 miles/kWh, the car multiplies the remaining charge by this to get 14 x 3 = 42 miles remaining, so this is (about) what it shows on the dash.
The driver naturally looks at this and thinks "I've used more than half of my range getting here, so I can't get back without charging".
However in reality the 40 miles showing is valid for the current efficiency of 3 miles/kWh, so the car would in fact do the return trip of 15 miles without an issue, with ~25 miles to spare.
Hence why the range display in EVs is generally known as the 'Guessometer', as it's based on estimated efficiency which varies with driving conditions, and hence can swing unpredictably.
What I do in my e-C4 is to get the trip efficiency up on the dashboard in miles/kWh, as well as the battery charge meter which shows me roughly what fraction of the full battery capacity I have left.
I know the full battery capacity in kWh, so I can work out from the dial about how many kWh I have left. I then multiply that by the trip efficiency (miles/kWh) to get my remaining range available.
So in your wife's case, on arriving in York the battery dial was probably showing a bit over half (14/24 kWh = 58%). I'd estimate half to be on the safe side, half of 24 is 12 kWh left, 12 x 3 = 36 miles remaining range that I'd be confident of doing.
Thanks for that Tom! I think that we're both going down the same route since I got rid of the CLK AMG55 as well, V8 itch well and truly scratched.The first thing is that the range on the dashboard is an estimate, taken by measuring the remaining energy in the battery (in kWh) and multiplying it by the expected efficiency (in miles per kWh). The battery energy is a fact, whereas the expected efficiency is just a guess, and it's based on what efficiency has been achieved recently.
The second thing is that efficiency in an EV varies depending how you drive, being much better in low speed traffic than at sustained high speeds. So if you drive around urban roads at an average of 30mph you might get 4.5 miles per kWh, whereas at a sustained 60mph or 70mph you might only get 3 miles per kWh.
The whole battery is around 24 kWh, so at 4.5 m/kWh you would have a range of 108 miles, whereas at 3 m/kWh that would give you a full range of 72 miles.
Now for your case. If for example the car had been used for slow local driving for a while, it might have run at an efficiency of 4.5 m/kWh. Lets assume the battery had 19 kWh in it (approx 80% of 24 kWh full capacity). Your wife looks at the dash before setting off, the car multiplies 19 x 4.5 and gets 85.5 miles, so that's what it shows on the dash.
Your wife then drives the 15 miles into York, doing mostly 60mph or so and getting 3 miles/kWh. The energy consumed is therefore 15 / 3 = 5 kWh used. The remaining energy in the battery is thus 19 - 5 = 14 kWh left.
Arriving in York, your wife looks at the dashboard again. The recent efficiency is now 3 miles/kWh, the car multiplies the remaining charge by this to get 14 x 3 = 42 miles remaining, so this is (about) what it shows on the dash.
The driver naturally looks at this and thinks "I've used more than half of my range getting here, so I can't get back without charging".
However in reality the 40 miles showing is valid for the current efficiency of 3 miles/kWh, so the car would in fact do the return trip of 15 miles without an issue, with ~25 miles to spare.
Hence why the range display in EVs is generally known as the 'Guessometer', as it's based on estimated efficiency which varies with driving conditions, and hence can swing unpredictably.
What I do in my e-C4 is to get the trip efficiency up on the dashboard in miles/kWh, as well as the battery charge meter which shows me roughly what fraction of the full battery capacity I have left.
I know the full battery capacity in kWh, so I can work out from the dial about how many kWh I have left. I then multiply that by the trip efficiency (miles/kWh) to get my remaining range available.
So in your wife's case, on arriving in York the battery dial was probably showing a bit over half (14/24 kWh = 58%). I'd estimate half to be on the safe side, half of 24 is 12 kWh left, 12 x 3 = 36 miles remaining range that I'd be confident of doing.
LaserTam said:
Generally the same as ICE cars. Rarely will I look at the 'miles to empty' but instead look at the fuel gauge. The GOM is a guide, but the battery charge state % is a better guide. Wait till you get to winter, the GOM will be even more out.
I don't know the Golf but have you found the miles per KWH figure, which might be for that trip or since the counter was reset? Can be useful to understand how heavy footed (or not) you are.
Thanks, I'll look into this as well.I don't know the Golf but have you found the miles per KWH figure, which might be for that trip or since the counter was reset? Can be useful to understand how heavy footed (or not) you are.
On longer journeys I would recommend putting your destination into the nav system. I believe the car should then be able to guestimate the remaining range on the planned route taking into consideration the estimated speed on that route etc. It becomes more of a guess on a cold, wet windy night!
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