Public chargers
Discussion
I’ve just bought a RRS P460 hybrid. I think the miles per gallon will be quite expensive (21 to 29 MPG apparently) and it will do up to 70 miles on the electric.
I know nothing about electric cars at all so any advice most welcome. I was having a charger installed at my office today but long story short Octopus couldn’t do it when they turned up, so I’m looking any getting one at home which may take a couple of weeks, or a different one through work.
In the meantime I’m going away and will use public chargers - motorway services? Hotels? Wherever i can find one?
Generally how expensive are they and are they worth it over just putting petrol in? Any tips I should know please?
I know nothing about electric cars at all so any advice most welcome. I was having a charger installed at my office today but long story short Octopus couldn’t do it when they turned up, so I’m looking any getting one at home which may take a couple of weeks, or a different one through work.
In the meantime I’m going away and will use public chargers - motorway services? Hotels? Wherever i can find one?
Generally how expensive are they and are they worth it over just putting petrol in? Any tips I should know please?
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give an accurate break even point, but I suspect it could be around 60p per kWh. The short answer is probably that unless you are at a hotel offering free charging, you are probably better off on the Dino juice.
Think of the battery and home charging as a way to offset the higher costs of petrol when you venture further away from home.
Think of the battery and home charging as a way to offset the higher costs of petrol when you venture further away from home.
DanGibsonRacing said:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give an accurate break even point, but I suspect it could be around 60p per kWh. The short answer is probably that unless you are at a hotel offering free charging, you are probably better off on the Dino juice.
Think of the battery and home charging as a way to offset the higher costs of petrol when you venture further away from home.
Staying at a Holiday Inn tomorrow night and their charges are apparently:Think of the battery and home charging as a way to offset the higher costs of petrol when you venture further away from home.
Fast: 59p/kWh, Rapid: 79p/kWh, Ultra Rapid: 85p/kWh, + £10 overstay charge for Rapid and Ultra Rapid.
No idea what that means as I’ve never used a charger - but is the 59p okay?
Vivalas said:
Yes the car came with two chargers and one of them is a 3 pin. I used it at work today just to try it out and it was very very slow. Charged about 4 miles an hour and probably expensive.
Why would it be expensive, just slow, surely?Unless you need a rapid charge (and I can’t see why you would on a PHEV, you have an engine to use), then a “slow” charge overnight (or during a working day) is more than adequate. No idea what your business electricity rate is at the office, but at home I’d have expected that even on a “normal” tariff (rather than an EV targeted one, or a time of use one) then you’d be expecting around 20-22p/kwh.
Compare that to your at best 59p/kwh and it makes very little sense to charge away from home in a PHEV (on public fast charging at least). Destination charging is your friend here.
Vivalas said:
DanGibsonRacing said:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give an accurate break even point, but I suspect it could be around 60p per kWh. The short answer is probably that unless you are at a hotel offering free charging, you are probably better off on the Dino juice.
Think of the battery and home charging as a way to offset the higher costs of petrol when you venture further away from home.
Staying at a Holiday Inn tomorrow night and their charges are apparently:Think of the battery and home charging as a way to offset the higher costs of petrol when you venture further away from home.
Fast: 59p/kWh, Rapid: 79p/kWh, Ultra Rapid: 85p/kWh, + £10 overstay charge for Rapid and Ultra Rapid.
No idea what that means as I’ve never used a charger - but is the 59p okay?
Fast = 7kw - 22kw AC (similar to a home charger which is often 7kw)
Rapid = 50kw - 100kw DC charger (typical at motorway services.)
Ultra rapid = 100kw - 350kw DC charger (latest and greatest)
In terms of the pricing, those seem fairly typical for public charging. But for context, I charge at home for 8p kWh, so any form of public charging feels very expensive
paradigital said:
Vivalas said:
Yes the car came with two chargers and one of them is a 3 pin. I used it at work today just to try it out and it was very very slow. Charged about 4 miles an hour and probably expensive.
Why would it be expensive, just slow, surely?Unless you need a rapid charge (and I can’t see why you would on a PHEV, you have an engine to use), then a “slow” charge overnight (or during a working day) is more than adequate. No idea what your business electricity rate is at the office, but at home I’d have expected that even on a “normal” tariff (rather than an EV targeted one, or a time of use one) then you’d be expecting around 20-22p/kwh.
Compare that to your at best 59p/kwh and it makes very little sense to charge away from home in a PHEV (on public fast charging at least). Destination charging is your friend here.
Fuel cost is going to be about 25p/mile (will obviously change with fuel price and actual mpg).
Assuming you get about 2 miles per kWh when running on electric (which might actually be a bit optimistic in a Range Rover) then anything over 50p/kWh will be more expensive than petrol.
All these numbers change with actual fuel cost, efficiency, charging losses etc.
I think the Range Rover will DC charge which is relatively new/unusual for a PHEV. DC chargers are usually more expensive, but if the price is the same as AC you'll be marginally better off using DC as the conversion losses will be lower.
Assuming you get about 2 miles per kWh when running on electric (which might actually be a bit optimistic in a Range Rover) then anything over 50p/kWh will be more expensive than petrol.
All these numbers change with actual fuel cost, efficiency, charging losses etc.
I think the Range Rover will DC charge which is relatively new/unusual for a PHEV. DC chargers are usually more expensive, but if the price is the same as AC you'll be marginally better off using DC as the conversion losses will be lower.
All the data is here:
https://www.landrover.co.uk/content/dam/lrdx/pdfs/...
It has a 31kWh battery, 15 hours to charge from flat to 100% on a 3 pin plug.
60 miles expected real world range, so it’s reeeeeeely inefficient. No surprise there.
They don’t quote for any charging speed above 50kW so it’s possible that’s the maximum. PHEVs don’t tend to charge very quickly. I would avoid public charging where you can as it’s going to be expensive and not very quick.
https://www.landrover.co.uk/content/dam/lrdx/pdfs/...
It has a 31kWh battery, 15 hours to charge from flat to 100% on a 3 pin plug.
60 miles expected real world range, so it’s reeeeeeely inefficient. No surprise there.
They don’t quote for any charging speed above 50kW so it’s possible that’s the maximum. PHEVs don’t tend to charge very quickly. I would avoid public charging where you can as it’s going to be expensive and not very quick.
Vivalas said:
Puzzles said:
is a 3 pin plug possible? i assume its not a big battery?
Yes the car came with two chargers and one of them is a 3 pin. I used it at work today just to try it out and it was very very slow. Charged about 4 miles an hour and probably expensive.you should be able to check in your charge settings or via the cars app if you have it installed on your phone and change it to something a bit faster, just check your plug doesn't start over heating at the socket if you do
if I ever use the 3 pin charger I usually get close to 3 kw per hour or about 9-10 miles per hour of charge,
the cost to charge via a 3 pin plug will be whatever the rate is your paying per kwh for electric from your energy supplier and should be much cheaper than using commercial chargers
blank said:
Fuel cost is going to be about 25p/mile (will obviously change with fuel price and actual mpg).
Assuming you get about 2 miles per kWh when running on electric (which might actually be a bit optimistic in a Range Rover) then anything over 50p/kWh will be more expensive than petrol.
All these numbers change with actual fuel cost, efficiency, charging losses etc.
I think the Range Rover will DC charge which is relatively new/unusual for a PHEV. DC chargers are usually more expensive, but if the price is the same as AC you'll be marginally better off using DC as the conversion losses will be lower.
Ah didn’t realise it was a Range Rover. Yeah kiss goodbye to 4 miles per KW !Assuming you get about 2 miles per kWh when running on electric (which might actually be a bit optimistic in a Range Rover) then anything over 50p/kWh will be more expensive than petrol.
All these numbers change with actual fuel cost, efficiency, charging losses etc.
I think the Range Rover will DC charge which is relatively new/unusual for a PHEV. DC chargers are usually more expensive, but if the price is the same as AC you'll be marginally better off using DC as the conversion losses will be lower.
Wait till Winter.
timberman said:
If you're only getting 4 miles of range an hour your car is probably limiting the current being drawn from your 3 pin socket
you should be able to check in your charge settings or via the cars app if you have it installed on your phone and change it to something a bit faster, just check your plug doesn't start over heating at the socket if you do
if I ever use the 3 pin charger I usually get close to 3 kw per hour or about 9-10 miles per hour of charge,
the cost to charge via a 3 pin plug will be whatever the rate is your paying per kwh for electric from your energy supplier and should be much cheaper than using commercial chargers
3 pin will (should) be limited to 10A so 2.3-2.4 kW.you should be able to check in your charge settings or via the cars app if you have it installed on your phone and change it to something a bit faster, just check your plug doesn't start over heating at the socket if you do
if I ever use the 3 pin charger I usually get close to 3 kw per hour or about 9-10 miles per hour of charge,
the cost to charge via a 3 pin plug will be whatever the rate is your paying per kwh for electric from your energy supplier and should be much cheaper than using commercial chargers
So adding 4 miles of range in an hour sounds about right with some conversion losses and an efficiency of around 2 miles/kWh.
blank said:
timberman said:
If you're only getting 4 miles of range an hour your car is probably limiting the current being drawn from your 3 pin socket
you should be able to check in your charge settings or via the cars app if you have it installed on your phone and change it to something a bit faster, just check your plug doesn't start over heating at the socket if you do
if I ever use the 3 pin charger I usually get close to 3 kw per hour or about 9-10 miles per hour of charge,
the cost to charge via a 3 pin plug will be whatever the rate is your paying per kwh for electric from your energy supplier and should be much cheaper than using commercial chargers
3 pin will (should) be limited to 10A so 2.3-2.4 kW.you should be able to check in your charge settings or via the cars app if you have it installed on your phone and change it to something a bit faster, just check your plug doesn't start over heating at the socket if you do
if I ever use the 3 pin charger I usually get close to 3 kw per hour or about 9-10 miles per hour of charge,
the cost to charge via a 3 pin plug will be whatever the rate is your paying per kwh for electric from your energy supplier and should be much cheaper than using commercial chargers
So adding 4 miles of range in an hour sounds about right with some conversion losses and an efficiency of around 2 miles/kWh.
I've just noticed the post above saying that It should only average about 2 miles per Kwh which is pretty bad and would suggest that it's not going to get much more than 4 miles of range added per hour of charge via a 3 pin socket.
Vivalas said:
Puzzles said:
is a 3 pin plug possible? i assume its not a big battery?
Yes the car came with two chargers and one of them is a 3 pin. I used it at work today just to try it out and it was very very slow. Charged about 4 miles an hour and probably expensive.Regards cost, each kw will cost you whatever your home tariff charges - probably 20ish pence. So, 10p per mile pretty much. If you get an EV tariff you'll bring that down to 7p a kw, 3.5p per mile.
How's RRS's electric range in stop-n-go traffic?
On Ioniq 5, 30mph/50km/h zones give you (very roughly) almost double the motorway range. This might change the financial break-even point for the electricity price.
Ioniq 5 is on the narrower tyre option, and tyres have fairly low rolling resistance. Drag coefficients seem to be roughly the same (RRS and Ioniq 5).
On Ioniq 5, 30mph/50km/h zones give you (very roughly) almost double the motorway range. This might change the financial break-even point for the electricity price.
Ioniq 5 is on the narrower tyre option, and tyres have fairly low rolling resistance. Drag coefficients seem to be roughly the same (RRS and Ioniq 5).
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
How's RRS's electric range in stop-n-go traffic?
On Ioniq 5, 30mph/50km/h zones give you (very roughly) almost double the motorway range. This might change the financial break-even point for the electricity price.
Ioniq 5 is on the narrower tyre option, and tyres have fairly low rolling resistance. Drag coefficients seem to be roughly the same (RRS and Ioniq 5).
I RRS won't be anywhere near the Ioniq in terms of electric efficiency, in any scenario. But as the OP points out the petrol efficiency ain't great so fairly easy to beat regardless of electricity costs.On Ioniq 5, 30mph/50km/h zones give you (very roughly) almost double the motorway range. This might change the financial break-even point for the electricity price.
Ioniq 5 is on the narrower tyre option, and tyres have fairly low rolling resistance. Drag coefficients seem to be roughly the same (RRS and Ioniq 5).
As for the Cd, it's relative to the frontal area of the car - so despite a similar Cd factor, the resultant drag is greater on the RRS.
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