Electric car battery charges in under five minutes in track
Discussion
"An electric car battery developed by UK start-up Nyobolt has successfully charged from 10% to 80% in four minutes and 37 seconds in its first live demonstration."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9dp3ye77do
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9dp3ye77do
It's also only a 35kWh battery apparently, which I don't see mentioned in the BBC article and is rather important when comparing charge %/time to other vehicles with batteries more than twice that capacity.
Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
SWoll said:
It's also only a 35kWh battery apparently, which I don't see mentioned in the BBC article and is rather important when comparing charge %/time to other vehicles with batteries more than twice that capacity.
Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Yes and no.Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Batteries are parallel devices. In fact that's a tautology, given that's literally what "battery" mens in this context ... it's a contraction of "battery of cells".
If you want a 44kWh battery, you just get yourself two 22kWh batteries. If you can charge your 22kWh arrangement in 5 mins, you can charge your 44kWh arrangement in 5 mins too. The limiting factor is going to be how much power the charging station can deliver, not how much power your batteries can accept.
Scaling batteries up is mostly about just adding more cells and charging circuitry ... i.e. adding more stuff you already know how to build. There are some packaging issues including thermal management, but those are trivial compared to the real challenge which is making the individual cells better.
ATG said:
Yes and no.
Batteries are parallel devices. In fact that's a tautology, given that's literally what "battery" mens in this context ... it's a contraction of "battery of cells".
If you want a 44kWh battery, you just get yourself two 22kWh batteries. If you can charge your 22kWh arrangement in 5 mins, you can charge your 44kWh arrangement in 5 mins too. The limiting factor is going to be how much power the charging station can deliver, not how much power your batteries can accept.
Scaling batteries up is mostly about just adding more cells and charging circuitry ... i.e. adding more stuff you already know how to build. There are some packaging issues including thermal management, but those are trivial compared to the real challenge which is making the individual cells better.
I am guessing you don't have an EV. It's typically the car that is the limiting factor when using a super fast charger. Indeed, in my experience over the last 4 years, it's always the car.Batteries are parallel devices. In fact that's a tautology, given that's literally what "battery" mens in this context ... it's a contraction of "battery of cells".
If you want a 44kWh battery, you just get yourself two 22kWh batteries. If you can charge your 22kWh arrangement in 5 mins, you can charge your 44kWh arrangement in 5 mins too. The limiting factor is going to be how much power the charging station can deliver, not how much power your batteries can accept.
Scaling batteries up is mostly about just adding more cells and charging circuitry ... i.e. adding more stuff you already know how to build. There are some packaging issues including thermal management, but those are trivial compared to the real challenge which is making the individual cells better.
SWoll said:
It's also only a 35kWh battery apparently, which I don't see mentioned in the BBC article and is rather important when comparing charge %/time to other vehicles with batteries more than twice that capacity.
Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Quite, it charges at the same speed as a new Taycan.Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Only difference is the Taycan can carry on and take on 88kWh in 20mins.
JD said:
SWoll said:
It's also only a 35kWh battery apparently, which I don't see mentioned in the BBC article and is rather important when comparing charge %/time to other vehicles with batteries more than twice that capacity.
Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Quite, it charges at the same speed as a new Taycan.Assuming 32kWh useable then 10-80% is 22kW that wae added in 4:37 so is it really all that impressive anyway?
Only difference is the Taycan can carry on and take on 88kWh in 20mins.
Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
GT6k said:
You can almost certainly scale the battery but what sort of crane are you going to need to lift that 1MW charging lead onto the port and where is all the heat going to go?
The leads can be liquid cooled if necessary. 900V architecture would also help.
This video was circulating a few months back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf9P-jdla6U
Charging starts at 6:45 mins timestamp.
The cable and connector are comically small for the nominal 500 kW charging that is being displayed on the dash.
Granted, there's a chance it could be a calibration error or skullduggery, and not actual 500 kW.
archie456 said:
It's the % charge time which makes the difference, and this is about 4 times faster than a Taycan.
Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
If you had it plugged into 4 x 350kWh chargers charging each battery seperately?Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
To charge 88kWh in 5 minutes would require 18kW a minute, that's a charger rate of 1 megawatt+ an hour?
Discombobulate said:
I am guessing you don't have an EV. It's typically the car that is the limiting factor when using a super fast charger. Indeed, in my experience over the last 4 years, it's always the car.
I do have an EV. The point I'm making is that scaling the battery up doesn't scale up the charging time so long as you can find suitable charging infrastructure. If you wanted a 220kWh battery that could charge in 5 mins you could just take 10 of these 22kWh and charge them all at the same time, if you could find charging infrastructure that could support that. That would require a 2.6MW power source, 6600A at 400V.SWoll said:
archie456 said:
It's the % charge time which makes the difference, and this is about 4 times faster than a Taycan.
Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
If you had it plugged into 4 x 350kWh chargers charging each battery seperately?Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
To charge 88kWh in 5 minutes would require 18kW a minute, that's a charger rate of 1 megawatt+ an hour?
How quickly you can charge a battery is determined by the chemistry, which is what this battery improves. Provided you can deliver the power to do that obviously.
archie456 said:
SWoll said:
archie456 said:
It's the % charge time which makes the difference, and this is about 4 times faster than a Taycan.
Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
If you had it plugged into 4 x 350kWh chargers charging each battery seperately?Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
To charge 88kWh in 5 minutes would require 18kW a minute, that's a charger rate of 1 megawatt+ an hour?
How quickly you can charge a battery is determined by the chemistry, which is what this battery improves. Provided you can deliver the power to do that obviously.
TRUENomme de Plum said:
archie456 said:
SWoll said:
archie456 said:
It's the % charge time which makes the difference, and this is about 4 times faster than a Taycan.
Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
If you had it plugged into 4 x 350kWh chargers charging each battery seperately?Putting 4 of these batteries in parallel would give you 88kwh of charge in 4:37.
To charge 88kWh in 5 minutes would require 18kW a minute, that's a charger rate of 1 megawatt+ an hour?
How quickly you can charge a battery is determined by the chemistry, which is what this battery improves. Provided you can deliver the power to do that obviously.
Chargers and power conversion at this size is already common in various industries.
The challenge is who's incentivised to pay for the infrastructure installation and ongoing maintenance for a public accessible service.
Ultra fast charging is like being able to fit a tow bar to a car.
Most will never need it but it’s nice to know it’s possible.
I bet once charging at these speeds becomes commonplace, many people will opt to buy a cheaper model without the fastest charging speed because they don’t actually need it.
Similarly 800v charging is very nice in my EV6 GT but I hardly ever need it to charge that fast. On long trips the car is always ready well before I am. Would I (will I probably) buy the EV3 (which is ‘only’ 400v) as a second family EV later this year?
Absolutely
But if it stops people complaining then all good.
Most will never need it but it’s nice to know it’s possible.
I bet once charging at these speeds becomes commonplace, many people will opt to buy a cheaper model without the fastest charging speed because they don’t actually need it.
Similarly 800v charging is very nice in my EV6 GT but I hardly ever need it to charge that fast. On long trips the car is always ready well before I am. Would I (will I probably) buy the EV3 (which is ‘only’ 400v) as a second family EV later this year?
Absolutely
But if it stops people complaining then all good.
740EVTORQUES said:
Ultra fast charging is like being able to fit a tow bar to a car.
Most will never need it but it’s nice to know it’s possible.
I bet once charging at these speeds becomes commonplace, many people will opt to buy a cheaper model without the fastest charging speed because they don’t actually need it.
Similarly 800v charging is very nice in my EV6 GT but I hardly ever need it to charge that fast. On long trips the car is always ready well before I am. Would I (will I probably) buy the EV3 (which is ‘only’ 400v) as a second family EV later this year?
Absolutely
But if it stops people complaining then all good.
You are spot on.Most will never need it but it’s nice to know it’s possible.
I bet once charging at these speeds becomes commonplace, many people will opt to buy a cheaper model without the fastest charging speed because they don’t actually need it.
Similarly 800v charging is very nice in my EV6 GT but I hardly ever need it to charge that fast. On long trips the car is always ready well before I am. Would I (will I probably) buy the EV3 (which is ‘only’ 400v) as a second family EV later this year?
Absolutely
But if it stops people complaining then all good.
It will take a few years for people to get used to this change and realise that most do not need 600kM range and much less will suffice.
I do see a challenge however. We have largely left the Charging infrastructure role out to the private sector which obviously requires massive investment. People are complaining about charging rates. I wonder how many realise that an electrical connection will be required from a substation somewhere and the work in the substation power cable and associated builderswork has to be paid for. That's without site costs to build the actual charging area and chargers. There is also a reservation fee to be paid. That is reserving a fixed amount of power availability from the DNO whether a company uses it or not.
Currently ICEs have to refuel at a fuel station with no opportunity at home but this is completely different in the EV world. Circa 56% of people can charge at home anyway so as battery technology evolves and EVs naturally get better range an assessment will need to be made as to how many fast chargers will be required.
It would be sensible if the government mandate that all new residential developments with parking provide charging even if it is remote. With modern technology an individual can have a card linked to their home electric account allowing them a preferential rate agreed with their supplier. That would overcome the need to pay the 90p rates for most of the time.
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