Clickbait or something more insidious?
Discussion
I am curious as to your opinion on the predominant anti EV (mis)information being promulgated by Youtube/social media and the media in general.
Looking back at other contentious phenomena over the years one might expect to see various arguments being put up by each side and then successively being debunked or confirmed and then the debate moving on to other arguments that are in turn addressed. However, during my own pre-purchase investigation of BEVs the obvious talking points of charging infrastructure, charge time, battery life, `don’t work in the cold’, massive depreciation, `no one wants them' etc. were raised time and time again. It seems that there is a continuous restating of previously discussed positions but despite some obvious `debunking’, no real movement forwards.
In that this appears (to me), to be at odds with other debates I wonder whether (or how much), of this continual barrage of misinformation is being encouraged/funded by lobbies with financial interests, or whether it is merely the result of people pushing their own channels to get more hits.
For sure there are use cases where an EV is not a good fit, but in many cases the limitations are overstated for effect. As an example one Youtuber would have you believe that the only thing any pickup driver does is tow a boat 200 miles into the outback of Australia. Apparently a ford F150 Lightning is not a good fit. But then neither is a mini or a moped or anything short of an F250 diesel.
However, for a lot of contractors a full sized pickup with electrical power on tap would be massively useful.
Without getting all tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, i wondered how much of this stuff was funded/encouraged/made popular by current businesses that would be undermined by large scale adoption of EVs.
However, for a lot of contractors a full sized pickup with electrical power on tap would be massively useful.
Without getting all tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, i wondered how much of this stuff was funded/encouraged/made popular by current businesses that would be undermined by large scale adoption of EVs.
ShortBeardy said:
Without getting all tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, i wondered how much of this stuff was funded/encouraged/made popular by current businesses that would be undermined by large scale adoption of EVs.
At least Toyota makes a lot of noise about their solid-state batteries that will resolve all the serious issues plaguing current battery tech. For the last 10 years, they have been just a couple of years from the market.Funnily enough, Prius batteries (including Li-ion since 2016) tend to last quite well despite being tiny (around 1kWh) and presumably having more and deeper charge cycles than a typical BEV battery. So they know the tech is good enough to last the lifetime of a vehicle (even the lifetime of a Toyota!)
I understood that Toyota didn't make battery supply agreements at the scale that would allow them to switch to BEVs, thus they're forced to resort to a multi-pronged FUD campaign. Solid state battery announcements for the Osborne effect, environmental impact studies based on 150,000km lifetime for BEV vehicles and coal-only electricity to show hybrids are better, Mirai,...
Carwow are always pretty EV positive, they posted a video today showing how EV ranges have improved in the last couple of years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz4qnwNKxt4
Most cars doing about 340-350miles in the real world now.
I think it was 290ish a couple of years ago.
400 by 2026?
By the time the ban comes around it'll be the same as an ICE car and all these silly videos will have to find some new clickbait.
However, I work with youtubers sometimes and the money to be made from a 'hit' video can be insane. There is a reason why they are willing to lie in the clickbait ones when chasing a trend.
Most cars doing about 340-350miles in the real world now.
I think it was 290ish a couple of years ago.
400 by 2026?
By the time the ban comes around it'll be the same as an ICE car and all these silly videos will have to find some new clickbait.
However, I work with youtubers sometimes and the money to be made from a 'hit' video can be insane. There is a reason why they are willing to lie in the clickbait ones when chasing a trend.
It's mostly oil industry driven FUD. I have done quite a bit of work on new technologies and straight substitution always looks bad. Why would someone replace a phone nailed to a wall that is always on and very cheap with a hugely expensive mobile that has to be charged every day, only works near a tower and is obsolete in 2 years, but could you give up your mobile?
There are some interesting wrinkles in the FUD, the Telegraph seems to have maintained an unrelenting stream of anti EV articles on the front pages but their motoring section seems pro EV.
There are some interesting wrinkles in the FUD, the Telegraph seems to have maintained an unrelenting stream of anti EV articles on the front pages but their motoring section seems pro EV.
CLK-GTR said:
Maybe they haven't been debunked as much as you thought? There are definitely some use cases where EVs work and some where they don't. The anti and pro lobbies seem only to want to deal in absolutes.
I'd echo this. I've owned petrol, diesel and BEV. There is no 'right' answer, it depends entirely on the mission profile. In some cases BEV works, in others it doesn't.ShortBeardy said:
, `don’t work in the cold’,
They work very well in the cold. This is my car going from -5 to 21C in 5 minutes while I finish my coffee on the sofa. 1% of battery used, but that was because it wasn't plugged n at the time.You have to consider the frequency of use-cases, e.g. how often you want a warm car with clear windows each morning in the Winter vs how often you need to drive 300 miles rather than 250 miles in one go.
LimaDelta said:
I'd echo this. I've owned petrol, diesel and BEV. There is no 'right' answer, it depends entirely on the mission profile. In some cases BEV works, in others it doesn't.
Exactly. You buy your car for the most extreme use case you need. I bought a petrol because an EV would work for 99% of the time but occasionally I need to drive long distances. Somebody once had the cheek to suggest I buy an EV and rent a different car for those journeys 
I'm looking for a commuter car now and it's most likely going to be an EV because it works best for that profile.
You do get luddites on social media harking on about batteries being scrap after 5 years but for the most part the motoring press is well balanced on the topic. It's the people sitting firmly on either side that don't like the middle ground.
baxb said:
My father in law asked me how often I was changing my tyres as "they only last 6-7000 miles on electric cars" according to the Daily Fail or whatever other rag he was reading. Showed him my 18k old tyres with 5mm left on them...
This can be true in some cases but remember that Teslas have 300-460bhp and lots of torque from zero rpm, so they should be compared with the likes of a BMW M3 or Mercedes AMG when it comes to tyre wear.An EV driven on the ECO or CHILL setting will use tyres the same as an ICE car. This guy from Cleevely EV is talking about getting 50K miles from a set. https://youtu.be/pSrKtJb8Aso?t=143
autumnsum said:
Carwow are always pretty EV positive, they posted a video today showing how EV ranges have improved in the last couple of years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz4qnwNKxt4
Most cars doing about 340-350miles in the real world now.
I think it was 290ish a couple of years ago.
400 by 2026?
By the time the ban comes around it'll be the same as an ICE car and all these silly videos will have to find some new clickbait.
However, I work with youtubers sometimes and the money to be made from a 'hit' video can be insane. There is a reason why they are willing to lie in the clickbait ones when chasing a trend.
That's quite an informative watch. At least they are getting closer to claimed range. Most cars doing about 340-350miles in the real world now.
I think it was 290ish a couple of years ago.
400 by 2026?
By the time the ban comes around it'll be the same as an ICE car and all these silly videos will have to find some new clickbait.
However, I work with youtubers sometimes and the money to be made from a 'hit' video can be insane. There is a reason why they are willing to lie in the clickbait ones when chasing a trend.
The flawed criticisms of EV's have been debunked, but only for those with an actual interest in learning and with an open mind.
For most people EV is just an upset, it's a change they don't feel they need and there's no pressure for them to even give the pro's and cons proper consideration. These people are in an echo chamber, repeating and listening to each others views on an endless loop.
The media across all platforms know that people are by default very suspicious of such a fundamental change to their cars, cars they rely on every day of their lives - tickling such concerns with anti EV content is guaranteed to attract viewership/readership from the masses because people want to be told their stance and views are justified - even if they're based on nothing other than the same misinformation in the first place.
It won't last though. Ultimately people are more likely to take feedback from friends and family experiences than what they read in the daily rags. It's easy to be of the opinion that EV's are a bit of a joke when everyone in the pub nods along in agreement - but it's not so easy when suddenly three of you pub mates are singing the praises of their new EV...
For most people EV is just an upset, it's a change they don't feel they need and there's no pressure for them to even give the pro's and cons proper consideration. These people are in an echo chamber, repeating and listening to each others views on an endless loop.
The media across all platforms know that people are by default very suspicious of such a fundamental change to their cars, cars they rely on every day of their lives - tickling such concerns with anti EV content is guaranteed to attract viewership/readership from the masses because people want to be told their stance and views are justified - even if they're based on nothing other than the same misinformation in the first place.
It won't last though. Ultimately people are more likely to take feedback from friends and family experiences than what they read in the daily rags. It's easy to be of the opinion that EV's are a bit of a joke when everyone in the pub nods along in agreement - but it's not so easy when suddenly three of you pub mates are singing the praises of their new EV...
gmaz said:
They work very well in the cold. This is my car going from -5 to 21C in 5 minutes while I finish my coffee on the sofa. 1% of battery used, but that was because it wasn't plugged n at the time.
You have to consider the frequency of use-cases, e.g. how often you want a warm car with clear windows each morning in the Winter vs how often you need to drive 300 miles rather than 250 miles in one go.
Where do you live that the interior of your car was -5C?!? You have to consider the frequency of use-cases, e.g. how often you want a warm car with clear windows each morning in the Winter vs how often you need to drive 300 miles rather than 250 miles in one go.
Back on topic, I've given up paying any attention to either side of the debate now. They work for some people and not others as most of us 'sensible' folks realise. The evangelising and animosity from both sides is draining.
I'm sick of hearing die-hard petrolheads shouting about how EVs don't work if it's cold, or that the battery will be scrap after 6 years, but I'm equally sick of folks like Robert Llewellyn belittling people who own ICE cars because they are destroying the planet, and harping on about using exclusively solar to charge his Tesla and being carbon neutral. Yes well done, but not everyone has £100k+ to spend on solar panels, a bank of batteries and a model S.
gmaz said:
baxb said:
My father in law asked me how often I was changing my tyres as "they only last 6-7000 miles on electric cars" according to the Daily Fail or whatever other rag he was reading. Showed him my 18k old tyres with 5mm left on them...
This can be true in some cases but remember that Teslas have 300-460bhp and lots of torque from zero rpm, so they should be compared with the likes of a BMW M3 or Mercedes AMG when it comes to tyre wear.An EV driven on the ECO or CHILL setting will use tyres the same as an ICE car. This guy from Cleevely EV is talking about getting 50K miles from a set. https://youtu.be/pSrKtJb8Aso?t=143
My EV6 GT has 575hp and I use it all frequently. I had to replace a rear tyre recently due to a side wall picture (nail) at 18,000 miles. It had 5mm of tread left on it (and it’s a Michelin PS4s, a performance tyre which normally you would expect to wear faster.)
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff