Dipping a toe into the world of hybrids? If so, which one...
Discussion
Afternoon all,
Currently I have one modern SUV that fulfils all my needs of daily driver for commuting and travelling, as well as towing and carrying items for my hobbies and projects. Undecided whether or not to split out into an older 4x4 for hauling and a "toaster" for everything else, or just add said toaster to the fleet. Anywho, that's a different issue.
Either way I'll be looking at something as economical as possible, small but still practical enough to throw some bags or boxes in the boot. Budget probably 5-6k, and has to be something a bit interesting (the GF has said she'll refuse to be seen with me in something "tragic", so presumably no Sanderos or Smarts....). Something a bit unusual in looks and cheap to insure are also desirable, as are being reasonably modern with amenities like aircon and cruise control.
My commute is about 2 miles each way and I have a weekly 25 mile (each way) trip and 50 mile (each way) trip with facilities at either end, but I also do a 150+ mile cross-country trip somewhere for something event related on average once a month and most definitely don't want to be faffing with trying to charge a BEV on the way (I also only have the use of a 13 pin plug at mine and my parents houses, no option for an HV installation)
I'd started out looking at 60mpg pure petrols but have noticed a couple of interesting hybrid options. I've driven my father's new VOlvo XC60 PHEV and been very impressed by the concept, and quickly got addicted to energy conservation on deceleration and trying to move off on only EV mode!
The Hybrids I've found with my parameters have now become my shortlist, though I'm torn between. Hence the power of PH, as I have no experience of any of these other than online research which suggests theyre all pretty reliable, and good in their own way, and all 3 have returned good insurance quotes.
Option 1: Honda CRZ
Pros: Cheapest to buy, funky looks, probably the best to drive? Motor assist will be less mechanically complex than a full hybrid
Cons: Assist only means no pure electric mode for short drives, probably the worst for extra-urban MPG.
Option 2: Vauxhall Ampera
Pros: PHEV and pure hybrid means much better flexbility. A few years more modern, and a physically larger car inside.
Cons: Drivetrain complexity out of warranty period, and whats the pure electric range at 10-15 YO? Also much more expensive with comparable mileage.
The wildcard that popped up, in budget, on another forum I use: Mk1 Honda Insight
Pros: The granddaddy of them all. Staggering hypermile MPG, and the current owner has rebuilt and reconditioned the battery pack. Looks amazing.
Cons: Assist only rather than EV on short journeys, another 10 years older, no a/c or c/c, only 2 seats inside with a shallow boot, may not be ULEZ compliant or cheap tax because it's an import.
What do the PH EV (and PHEV
) experts think?
Currently I have one modern SUV that fulfils all my needs of daily driver for commuting and travelling, as well as towing and carrying items for my hobbies and projects. Undecided whether or not to split out into an older 4x4 for hauling and a "toaster" for everything else, or just add said toaster to the fleet. Anywho, that's a different issue.
Either way I'll be looking at something as economical as possible, small but still practical enough to throw some bags or boxes in the boot. Budget probably 5-6k, and has to be something a bit interesting (the GF has said she'll refuse to be seen with me in something "tragic", so presumably no Sanderos or Smarts....). Something a bit unusual in looks and cheap to insure are also desirable, as are being reasonably modern with amenities like aircon and cruise control.
My commute is about 2 miles each way and I have a weekly 25 mile (each way) trip and 50 mile (each way) trip with facilities at either end, but I also do a 150+ mile cross-country trip somewhere for something event related on average once a month and most definitely don't want to be faffing with trying to charge a BEV on the way (I also only have the use of a 13 pin plug at mine and my parents houses, no option for an HV installation)
I'd started out looking at 60mpg pure petrols but have noticed a couple of interesting hybrid options. I've driven my father's new VOlvo XC60 PHEV and been very impressed by the concept, and quickly got addicted to energy conservation on deceleration and trying to move off on only EV mode!
The Hybrids I've found with my parameters have now become my shortlist, though I'm torn between. Hence the power of PH, as I have no experience of any of these other than online research which suggests theyre all pretty reliable, and good in their own way, and all 3 have returned good insurance quotes.
Option 1: Honda CRZ
Pros: Cheapest to buy, funky looks, probably the best to drive? Motor assist will be less mechanically complex than a full hybrid
Cons: Assist only means no pure electric mode for short drives, probably the worst for extra-urban MPG.
Option 2: Vauxhall Ampera
Pros: PHEV and pure hybrid means much better flexbility. A few years more modern, and a physically larger car inside.
Cons: Drivetrain complexity out of warranty period, and whats the pure electric range at 10-15 YO? Also much more expensive with comparable mileage.
The wildcard that popped up, in budget, on another forum I use: Mk1 Honda Insight
Pros: The granddaddy of them all. Staggering hypermile MPG, and the current owner has rebuilt and reconditioned the battery pack. Looks amazing.
Cons: Assist only rather than EV on short journeys, another 10 years older, no a/c or c/c, only 2 seats inside with a shallow boot, may not be ULEZ compliant or cheap tax because it's an import.
What do the PH EV (and PHEV
) experts think? Edited by ChemicalChaos on Thursday 6th June 18:26
So to summarise - an "interesting" hybrid for £5k - £6k
For that money I would not go PHEV. You will have to compromise too much on the rest of the car.
The Ampera is very cool but as you say it's an old car and completely out of warranty. It did not sell well and most Vauxhall dealers will have never worked on one. Personally I would not risk it.
The Mk1 Insight is very very cool but be prepared to DIY and put up with again a very old design. You would have to really want one and you would have to be sure that you will still want it after the novelty has worn off.
My money would go on a Lexus LS600h. That is the uberfuhrer of all self-charging hybrids. They are IMHO one of the few cars that you can buy cheap and still be confident that it will work for some time. Even Lexus dealers sometimes sell very old LSs and put a warranty behind them. They are insanely well engineered; beyond any other car of the time and certainly beyond most of the stuff that is made today.
(The original LS was the car that had BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Jaguar engineers writing "we're f
ked" memos to their management.)
It's also one of the few hybrids with a V8 and RWD.
Downsides: the boot is small, but if a mk1 Insight is in the mix as well, then presumably that's not a concern. It's designed for comfort, not sportiness, although it is very quick (anything with a 5.0 V8 plus electric power and RWD is not going to be slow...). Parts, should you need them from a main dealer, will be nose bleedingly expensive, and the second hard parts market is not huge because they are quite rare cars and the original parts tend to last forever.
Looking on AT, there are plenty for just over £6k. A bit of haggling and you should be able to deal at £6k. IMHO there is no better value in the used car market today.
For that money I would not go PHEV. You will have to compromise too much on the rest of the car.
The Ampera is very cool but as you say it's an old car and completely out of warranty. It did not sell well and most Vauxhall dealers will have never worked on one. Personally I would not risk it.
The Mk1 Insight is very very cool but be prepared to DIY and put up with again a very old design. You would have to really want one and you would have to be sure that you will still want it after the novelty has worn off.
My money would go on a Lexus LS600h. That is the uberfuhrer of all self-charging hybrids. They are IMHO one of the few cars that you can buy cheap and still be confident that it will work for some time. Even Lexus dealers sometimes sell very old LSs and put a warranty behind them. They are insanely well engineered; beyond any other car of the time and certainly beyond most of the stuff that is made today.
(The original LS was the car that had BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Jaguar engineers writing "we're f
ked" memos to their management.)It's also one of the few hybrids with a V8 and RWD.
Downsides: the boot is small, but if a mk1 Insight is in the mix as well, then presumably that's not a concern. It's designed for comfort, not sportiness, although it is very quick (anything with a 5.0 V8 plus electric power and RWD is not going to be slow...). Parts, should you need them from a main dealer, will be nose bleedingly expensive, and the second hard parts market is not huge because they are quite rare cars and the original parts tend to last forever.
Looking on AT, there are plenty for just over £6k. A bit of haggling and you should be able to deal at £6k. IMHO there is no better value in the used car market today.
The hybrids of that era were not amazingly efficient. Also worth checking whether they are type approved for towing as some likely will not be, making it impossible to legally tow with them.
Worth checking out more modern stuff with small turbo engines as they can be as efficient as some of the old “eco” cars, and better to drive.
Our 1.0 Fabia will likely be at the top end of your budget, but has 110bhp so is faster and torquier than things like the CRZ, it can be fitted with a towbar, and ours will easily hit 50mpg without trying on a motorway run, with 60mpg possible with a little effort.
Worth checking out more modern stuff with small turbo engines as they can be as efficient as some of the old “eco” cars, and better to drive.
Our 1.0 Fabia will likely be at the top end of your budget, but has 110bhp so is faster and torquier than things like the CRZ, it can be fitted with a towbar, and ours will easily hit 50mpg without trying on a motorway run, with 60mpg possible with a little effort.
I had a CRZ for a day and didn’t like it, the hybrid system wasn’t very good as it wasn’t that fast or that economical unfortunately.
Handling wasn’t brilliant either, combined with hardly any space inside.
6k would get you a select of older Toyota hybrids that still have plenty of life in them. You’ll likely only get 11 second 0-60 times but 60mpg or so. But they are likely out of the running as not being interesting.
I’d considered a Lexus GS450h myself, but they are getting on in years and parts will be expensive so it put me off. 300+ hp and 0-60 in 5.5 seconds is pretty good.
Handling wasn’t brilliant either, combined with hardly any space inside.
6k would get you a select of older Toyota hybrids that still have plenty of life in them. You’ll likely only get 11 second 0-60 times but 60mpg or so. But they are likely out of the running as not being interesting.
I’d considered a Lexus GS450h myself, but they are getting on in years and parts will be expensive so it put me off. 300+ hp and 0-60 in 5.5 seconds is pretty good.
Edited by Whataguy on Thursday 6th June 21:34
Edited by Whataguy on Thursday 6th June 21:36
Whataguy said:
I had a CRZ for a day and didn’t like it, the hybrid system wasn’t very good as it wasn’t that fast or that economical unfortunately.
Handling wasn’t brilliant either, combined with hardly any space inside.
6k would get you a select of older Toyota hybrids that still have plenty of life in them. You’ll likely only get 11 second 0-60 times but 60mpg or so. But they are likely out of the running as not being interesting.
I’d considered a Lexus GS450h myself, but they are getting on in years and parts will be expensive so it put me off. 300+ hp and 0-60 in 5.5 seconds is pretty good.
My wife runs a CRZ as her daily. 60mpg easily, ultra reliable and put it in Sport mode and it’s good to drive….and I run a 911 as a daily and an MR2 as a sunny day car for reference Handling wasn’t brilliant either, combined with hardly any space inside.
6k would get you a select of older Toyota hybrids that still have plenty of life in them. You’ll likely only get 11 second 0-60 times but 60mpg or so. But they are likely out of the running as not being interesting.
I’d considered a Lexus GS450h myself, but they are getting on in years and parts will be expensive so it put me off. 300+ hp and 0-60 in 5.5 seconds is pretty good.
Edited by Whataguy on Thursday 6th June 21:34
Edited by Whataguy on Thursday 6th June 21:36
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff