Electric cars up to 3x likelier to hit pedestrians than ICE
Discussion
Interesting study reported in the Guardian - link below.
Seems a bit flawed, though. Apparently the researchers’ data only goes up to 2017, and low speed sound generators for electric / hybrid cars didn’t become mandatory until 2019.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may...
Seems a bit flawed, though. Apparently the researchers’ data only goes up to 2017, and low speed sound generators for electric / hybrid cars didn’t become mandatory until 2019.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may...
Is the car hitting the pedestrian or the pedestrian hitting the car? 
For years in central London the sound of a large V8 has helped many pedestrians stop themselves from walking into a moving car and instead wait to collide with something more quiet such as a cyclist.
It could also be that the early EV adopters were genuinely terrible drivers. Many of the Tesla owners didn't even realise it was a car, they just wanted to have the object as a means to define them as a better human, be closer to their messiah and fomo. The other EV drivers had GWizes so we're quite possibly just trying to kill themselves and the pedestrian was in the way.
I bet that once EVs began being used out of urban centres on places like motorways they began being hit fewer times by pedestrians.
For years in central London the sound of a large V8 has helped many pedestrians stop themselves from walking into a moving car and instead wait to collide with something more quiet such as a cyclist.
It could also be that the early EV adopters were genuinely terrible drivers. Many of the Tesla owners didn't even realise it was a car, they just wanted to have the object as a means to define them as a better human, be closer to their messiah and fomo. The other EV drivers had GWizes so we're quite possibly just trying to kill themselves and the pedestrian was in the way.
I bet that once EVs began being used out of urban centres on places like motorways they began being hit fewer times by pedestrians.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 22 May 07:06
The statement about EVs being more likely to be driven by young inexperienced drivers is clearly rubbish too, particularly as this is from 8 years ago.
Almost all EVs on the road back then were Nissam Leafs and Renault Zoes, which were almost exclusively run as second cars by the middle aged middle classes.
It looks like hybrids were also included in the 'study', so the reason for the difference will probably actually be Toyota Prius minicabs. The drivers of these don't tend to have a great reputation for driving well, but probably more importantly, there are a lot of them driving round in city centres full of drunk pedestrians at night.....
Almost all EVs on the road back then were Nissam Leafs and Renault Zoes, which were almost exclusively run as second cars by the middle aged middle classes.
It looks like hybrids were also included in the 'study', so the reason for the difference will probably actually be Toyota Prius minicabs. The drivers of these don't tend to have a great reputation for driving well, but probably more importantly, there are a lot of them driving round in city centres full of drunk pedestrians at night.....
I wouldn't be surprised of part of the problem might also rest on the driver putting too much faith in the "self drive" technology and assuming that the car will stop itself, and so they don't pay as much attention to the road ahead. Couple this with a belligerent populous who are used to stepping out without looking because "they've got brakes don't they?" And you have the makings of a problem.
I wonder if there would be less incidents if the law were changed to reflect priorities in only in designated zones (ie pedestrian always has priority on paths and in pedestrianised areas, motor vehicles always have priority on roads) and people had to think a bit harder about where they were stood without the protection of "its my right of way".
I wonder if there would be less incidents if the law were changed to reflect priorities in only in designated zones (ie pedestrian always has priority on paths and in pedestrianised areas, motor vehicles always have priority on roads) and people had to think a bit harder about where they were stood without the protection of "its my right of way".
A lot more people are aware of EVs now, so will be more likely to expect a silent car. 2017 is a long time ago in the EV world. Also the title of this thread (and maybe the headline is a bit skewed). Surely it should be "pedestrians 3x more likely to walk out in front of an electric car"?
Oilchange said:
I think sound generators for evs are essential, children certainly don't tend to have the awareness and are more likely to be hit by a silent vehicle.
To say that people should be ‘more observant’ is wholly ignorant.
Especially when driving on the pavement or through playgrounds when it really does become essential. To say that people should be ‘more observant’ is wholly ignorant.
DonkeyApple said:
Oilchange said:
I think sound generators for evs are essential, children certainly don't tend to have the awareness and are more likely to be hit by a silent vehicle.
To say that people should be ‘more observant’ is wholly ignorant.
Especially when driving on the pavement or through playgrounds when it really does become essential. To say that people should be ‘more observant’ is wholly ignorant.
2.5 tonnes of metal that can accelerate like a bullet, silently, in an estate where children live and play is a recipe for disaster.
SkodaIan said:
The statement about EVs being more likely to be driven by young inexperienced drivers is clearly rubbish too, particularly as this is from 8 years ago.
Almost all EVs on the road back then were Nissam Leafs and Renault Zoes, which were almost exclusively run as second cars by the middle aged middle classes.
It looks like hybrids were also included in the 'study', so the reason for the difference will probably actually be Toyota Prius minicabs. The drivers of these don't tend to have a great reputation for driving well, but probably more importantly, there are a lot of them driving round in city centres full of drunk pedestrians at night.....
Indeed but it is a junk article by an irrelevant bloke at an irrelevant job. Phil's just trying to be famous. Almost all EVs on the road back then were Nissam Leafs and Renault Zoes, which were almost exclusively run as second cars by the middle aged middle classes.
It looks like hybrids were also included in the 'study', so the reason for the difference will probably actually be Toyota Prius minicabs. The drivers of these don't tend to have a great reputation for driving well, but probably more importantly, there are a lot of them driving round in city centres full of drunk pedestrians at night.....
The problem is that humans aren't very good with gauging the scale of numbers so to the average human a 'billion' seems similar to a 'trillion' when in reality the numbers are so vastly different that you can't get meaningful results by comparing two datasets of such difference.
'Data from 32bn miles of battery-powered car travel and 3tn miles of petrol and diesel car trips '
So that is your first warning sign that Phil is a t
t. The second one and the really big one appears when you suddenly realise that almost all of the ICE mileage will have been on motorways where pedestrians aren't permitted, not just that early EV usage was almost all urban and if it contains hybrid data then these were, as you say, all central London moody cabs driven by utter incompetents. Phil even notes the issue of taxis loving to hit things. And the fact that Phil is a Chartered Statistician one would think he would have worked out the dataset issue but probably wasn't able to find a link between cars and tropical disease so just ran with this to get recognised.
Oilchange said:
You’re funny.
2.5 tonnes of metal that can accelerate like a bullet, silently, in an estate where children live and play is a recipe for disaster.
Obscure reason 74 (b) why EVs are a global menace and hopefully the final nail in the coffin for these manifestations of Beelzebub?2.5 tonnes of metal that can accelerate like a bullet, silently, in an estate where children live and play is a recipe for disaster.
Oilchange said:
DonkeyApple said:
Oilchange said:
I think sound generators for evs are essential, children certainly don't tend to have the awareness and are more likely to be hit by a silent vehicle.
To say that people should be ‘more observant’ is wholly ignorant.
Especially when driving on the pavement or through playgrounds when it really does become essential. To say that people should be ‘more observant’ is wholly ignorant.
2.5 tonnes of metal that can accelerate like a bullet, silently, in an estate where children live and play is a recipe for disaster.
He probably knows the dataset is skewed but that wouldn’t stop sensationalist journalism. Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story…
Yes off course a silent moving car won’t be noticed by pedestrians as much as a louder one. New laws brought in place to address this. EVs more likely to be found in city environments than on the motorway so more chance of pedestrian encounters. Lastly people look more into their phones than where they are going, they are also responsible for paying attention of their surroundings.
Yes off course a silent moving car won’t be noticed by pedestrians as much as a louder one. New laws brought in place to address this. EVs more likely to be found in city environments than on the motorway so more chance of pedestrian encounters. Lastly people look more into their phones than where they are going, they are also responsible for paying attention of their surroundings.
Evanivitch said:
Seems a bit at odds to say young people were driving EVs in 2017?
Anecdotally, I would say given the amount of taxi and private hire vehicles that were Prius and Auris at the time I'm not surprised they were more involved in incidents.
Click the link to the article that the Guardian author has taken that from. Anecdotally, I would say given the amount of taxi and private hire vehicles that were Prius and Auris at the time I'm not surprised they were more involved in incidents.
Over 40% of the UK’s youngest drivers now have EVs
Meanwhile, under 4% of those aged over 55 do
Interesting until you note that it came from a survey of just 1.300 people so is potentially meaningless.
Not only that but the journalist has created the claim out of thin air by linking two separate things and simply claiming they mean someone without any evidence or workings so I would get caught by it.
EV drivers will be younger just because the oldest drivers in the U.K. are less likely to have switched and also being unemployed won't be drawn by BIK. What that doesn't mean is that new drivers and under 21s, that classic crashing age group are hurling themselves into EVs as is being extrapolated by the author. It just means that more middle aged people are buying EVs and they actually tend to be the safer drivers than the oldest and the youngest.
Hmm, maybe its some of the anti EV frothers doing an Emily Davison and throwing themselves under EV's ?
Its likely bks as an article, but of course if there is no audible clue there is a vehicle approaching when at low speed (at higher speeds I cant tell any difference as its all wind and tyre noise anyway) and people are relying on that and not a combination of senses, then it will happen.
The sound generators do work, there is a Taycan a few doors down and that makes a sort of space age hum, will take that over the other neighbours diesels to be honest.
Hopefully people will adapt and have a mental process that involves using sight as well as sound to judge whether it is safe to cross, the number of times I have had someone step out when on a bicycle is quite amazing, big lump on a bike with a hi viz top on, usually lights flashing and still dont see you.
This may be down to increased Smartphone ownership as well, I pass a secondary school on the way to work and even in a noisy bright red car they dont see you, often looking at their screen, sometimes with headphones in.
Its likely b
ks as an article, but of course if there is no audible clue there is a vehicle approaching when at low speed (at higher speeds I cant tell any difference as its all wind and tyre noise anyway) and people are relying on that and not a combination of senses, then it will happen.The sound generators do work, there is a Taycan a few doors down and that makes a sort of space age hum, will take that over the other neighbours diesels to be honest.
Hopefully people will adapt and have a mental process that involves using sight as well as sound to judge whether it is safe to cross, the number of times I have had someone step out when on a bicycle is quite amazing, big lump on a bike with a hi viz top on, usually lights flashing and still dont see you.
This may be down to increased Smartphone ownership as well, I pass a secondary school on the way to work and even in a noisy bright red car they dont see you, often looking at their screen, sometimes with headphones in.
GolfDragon said:
Most electric cars will have City safe or pedestrian detection as stipulated by manufacturing standards these days as the majority are a lot newer than ICE cars.
The early EVs probably don’t have this technology but I’d imagine those from 2020 and later will have this tech.
What you do notice today is that if you're behind some EVs waiting to cross Oxford St then you're screwed as the only way to be able to drive across once the lights have gone green is to rev the engine and start moving towards the pedestrians. That's how those kind of junctions have always worked. Half the pedestrians will just keep stepping out until they notice the car whereupon they stop. Not being able to make a noise to alert them was one loss but now some cars are programmed to actually not move then you can get stuck for several light cycles as the car at the front is completely trapped. The early EVs probably don’t have this technology but I’d imagine those from 2020 and later will have this tech.
It's such an interesting and common phenomenon that I now drive further to particular junctions where this doesn't happen which tends to mean going to the west of Marble Arch or east of Tottenham court Rd.
And for the chaps in London who like walking out in front of a car and eyeballing the driver to make them give way discovering that cars are being programmed to do that for them is nirvana. Just like Londoners will now freely walk behind a moving reversing car because they've worked out that the car will start screaming at the driver who will stop so there is no longer a need to wait for that driver.
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