Electricity costs 4X more than gas per Kwh but why??

Electricity costs 4X more than gas per Kwh but why??

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Pistonheadsdicoverer

Original Poster:

377 posts

53 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Someone may be able to enlighten me here (pun intended).
Why, per Kwh, does electricity - which is usually generated locally - cost much more than gas which is usually imported?

poo at Paul's

14,331 posts

182 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Dont worry, they will soon be doubling or trippling the gas price so they cost similar, so we can they go to heat pumps wihtout it costing more.

samoht

6,297 posts

153 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
Someone may be able to enlighten me here (pun intended).
Why, per Kwh, does electricity - which is usually generated locally - cost much more than gas which is usually imported?
Basically, UK electricity is made from gas.

This affects the cost in two ways:
1) When you burn gas to boil water to turn a steam turbine to generate electricity, half of the energy disappears up the chimney as hot air (or steam or CO2), so you need say 200 kWh of gas to produce 100 kWh of electricity. So that explains a factor of two in price.
2) The power station containing all that machinery costs money to build and maintain, so you're paying for that in the electricity cost. Gas is simple by comparison, just pipe it from the North Sea to your house.

There are lots of other incidental factors, for instance gas can easily be stored whereas electricity production has to be constantly adjusted to match demand, which requires extra capacity to be 'on hand' ready for immediate use, but those are the main two I think.

Pistonheadsdicoverer

Original Poster:

377 posts

53 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
samoht said:
Basically, UK electricity is made from gas.

This affects the cost in two ways:
1) When you burn gas to boil water to turn a steam turbine to generate electricity, half of the energy disappears up the chimney as hot air (or steam or CO2), so you need say 200 kWh of gas to produce 100 kWh of electricity. So that explains a factor of two in price.
2) The power station containing all that machinery costs money to build and maintain, so you're paying for that in the electricity cost. Gas is simple by comparison, just pipe it from the North Sea to your house.

There are lots of other incidental factors, for instance gas can easily be stored whereas electricity production has to be constantly adjusted to match demand, which requires extra capacity to be 'on hand' ready for immediate use, but those are the main two I think.
I thought a lot of the electricity in the UK came from renewable rather than fossil fuels - which I presume gas and charcoal are. I guess some more astute providers like Octopus are starting to change that paradigm (e.g. with Agile).

samoht

6,297 posts

153 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
I thought a lot of the electricity in the UK came from renewable rather than fossil fuels - which I presume gas and charcoal are. I guess some more astute providers like Octopus are starting to change that paradigm (e.g. with Agile).
You're right, it's roughly equal between fossil fuels and renewables. However it's the cost of generating electricity from burning gas which tends to set the electricity price. I think this is because the renewable supply is uncontrolled and so you need to 'top it up' with the right amount of gas-fired electricity (which you can turn on and off at will) to meet demand, and it's this 'last kWh' which sets the overall electricity price.

(See 'past year' stats here https://grid.iamkate.com/)

Nomme de Plum

6,183 posts

23 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Power is a commodity traded both within and outwith the UK. It maybe that renewables can be generated at far lest cost but it still gets sold at market value. We no longer have a nationalised power industry so will remain at the whim of the market.

The price we pay is a reflection of the average commercial price over a period of time.

With the advent of smart meters and companies like Octopus energy some consumers are ble to realise potential savings by having a flexible tariff. Those that stick with the more traditional power companies have a price averaged out over a greater period so may end up paying more.


Terminator X

16,362 posts

211 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Will be interesting to see how they justify the extortionate cost at the point that most of it is generated "free" as in coming from the Sun / Wind / Sea,

TX.

OutInTheShed

9,406 posts

33 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
When you generate electricity from fossil fuels, the efficiency is in the 25 to 40% league.
That tends to drive the basic cost of power.

AIUI, the UK electricity market is a right mess, but how different is it elsewhere in the world?

Our electricity bills are also loaded with subsidies for all sorts of stuff, our gas bills have a lot of costs other than the wholesale gas.

It's tempting to consider generating electricty at home using gas. Run a generator at say 25% efficiency and use the waste heat for heating.

GT9

7,564 posts

179 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Will be interesting to see how they justify the extortionate cost at the point that most of it is generated "free" as in coming from the Sun / Wind / Sea,

TX.
Wind turbines have a finite life, the first installation or replacement cost of these needs to be amortised.
Then you have the overhead and employee base for keeping everything going, ongoing R&D, producing glossy brochure to keep convincing people that the grid can actually cope, etc.
No different to any other business.
Installing loads of additional wind turbines because we got cute about how to to use the electricity should off course be avoided. smile
It's not just cost either, at some point you'd run out of windy coastline.

Terminator X

16,362 posts

211 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
GT9 said:
Terminator X said:
Will be interesting to see how they justify the extortionate cost at the point that most of it is generated "free" as in coming from the Sun / Wind / Sea,

TX.
Wind turbines have a finite life, the first installation or replacement cost of these needs to be amortised.
Then you have the overhead and employee base for keeping everything going, ongoing R&D, producing glossy brochure to keep convincing people that the grid can actually cope, etc.
No different to any other business.
Installing loads of additional wind turbines because we got cute about how to to use the electricity should off course be avoided. smile
It's not just cost either, at some point you'd run out of windy coastline.
You clearly know your onions mate. I just get frustrated that nothing it seems is discussed in the public domain any more; all seems to be smoke and mirrors.

TX.

cuprabob

15,723 posts

221 months

Wednesday 15th May
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
... all seems to be smoke and mirrors.
Agreed and it seems Ofgem are complicit in keeping it that way.


Edited by cuprabob on Wednesday 15th May 14:53


Edited by cuprabob on Wednesday 15th May 14:54