VW have no clue how to fix my ID3…
Discussion
My 2023 ID3 has developed 3 issues:
1. Error message saying “Parking sensors need cleaning (they don’t…)/ manoeuvre braking not available”
2. Traffic data in satnav has stopped working
3. Since the app update, the VW app doesn’t work
Car has been with main VW dealer (I’ll spare them their blushes) for 2 days. No progress on any of the three issues.
Yesterday they told me that the technician had tested the parking sensors and reported all ok, no faults. Unconvinced, I went down and asked the service adviser to sit with me in the car as I drove forward 5m. Sure enough, the error IS still there. He has no clue why the technician had recorded no fault.
We agreed they’d keep the car overnight so they could carry on “working” on it today.
They have told me today that the parking sensor and traffic data issues are “probably” arising because I haven’t installed the latest OTA update in the car.
I’ve asked them how I can install the update when the App doesn’t work - it won’t recognise/pair with my car, the old app was fine. This has stumped them for the moment.
I don’t think their so-called Master Technicians have a clue with these cars. This is my second chaotic experience with apparently basic issues seemingly beyond their capabilities. As a friend points out, the car was designed and built by German engineers; it can’t be fixed by British mechanics.
After a bit of a punch-up they’ve lent me an ID5 demonstrator. I’ve said I’ll return it only when they’ve fixed my car and the made the App work.
Who’d like to take a guess at how long I’ll have the ID5 for? I’ll start the process by saying a minimum of one week.
1. Error message saying “Parking sensors need cleaning (they don’t…)/ manoeuvre braking not available”
2. Traffic data in satnav has stopped working
3. Since the app update, the VW app doesn’t work
Car has been with main VW dealer (I’ll spare them their blushes) for 2 days. No progress on any of the three issues.
Yesterday they told me that the technician had tested the parking sensors and reported all ok, no faults. Unconvinced, I went down and asked the service adviser to sit with me in the car as I drove forward 5m. Sure enough, the error IS still there. He has no clue why the technician had recorded no fault.
We agreed they’d keep the car overnight so they could carry on “working” on it today.
They have told me today that the parking sensor and traffic data issues are “probably” arising because I haven’t installed the latest OTA update in the car.
I’ve asked them how I can install the update when the App doesn’t work - it won’t recognise/pair with my car, the old app was fine. This has stumped them for the moment.
I don’t think their so-called Master Technicians have a clue with these cars. This is my second chaotic experience with apparently basic issues seemingly beyond their capabilities. As a friend points out, the car was designed and built by German engineers; it can’t be fixed by British mechanics.
After a bit of a punch-up they’ve lent me an ID5 demonstrator. I’ve said I’ll return it only when they’ve fixed my car and the made the App work.
Who’d like to take a guess at how long I’ll have the ID5 for? I’ll start the process by saying a minimum of one week.
CooperS said:
A bit of leap but my leaf developed a problem that took 2 months to fix - the dealership wasn’t sure if it was software, sensor or something else…… lol
Honestly whilst I like the technology these cars bring the complexity of the them is going to be the death of them.
That’s before you consider how much of the tech has full authority over your fate too! I like a bit of tech, but never want to be the early adopter.Honestly whilst I like the technology these cars bring the complexity of the them is going to be the death of them.
WindyCommon said:
My 2023 ID3 has developed 3 issues:
1. Error message saying “Parking sensors need cleaning (they don’t…)/ manoeuvre braking not available”
2. Traffic data in satnav has stopped working
3. Since the app update, the VW app doesn’t work
Car has been with main VW dealer (I’ll spare them their blushes) for 2 days. No progress on any of the three issues.
Yesterday they told me that the technician had tested the parking sensors and reported all ok, no faults. Unconvinced, I went down and asked the service adviser to sit with me in the car as I drove forward 5m. Sure enough, the error IS still there. He has no clue why the technician had recorded no fault.
We agreed they’d keep the car overnight so they could carry on “working” on it today.
They have told me today that the parking sensor and traffic data issues are “probably” arising because I haven’t installed the latest OTA update in the car.
I’ve asked them how I can install the update when the App doesn’t work - it won’t recognise/pair with my car, the old app was fine. This has stumped them for the moment.
I don’t think their so-called Master Technicians have a clue with these cars. This is my second chaotic experience with apparently basic issues seemingly beyond their capabilities. As a friend points out, the car was designed and built by German engineers; it can’t be fixed by British mechanics.
After a bit of a punch-up they’ve lent me an ID5 demonstrator. I’ve said I’ll return it only when they’ve fixed my car and the made the App work.
Who’d like to take a guess at how long I’ll have the ID5 for? I’ll start the process by saying a minimum of one week.
Nightmare. Don’t they have factory contact for errors like this? 1. Error message saying “Parking sensors need cleaning (they don’t…)/ manoeuvre braking not available”
2. Traffic data in satnav has stopped working
3. Since the app update, the VW app doesn’t work
Car has been with main VW dealer (I’ll spare them their blushes) for 2 days. No progress on any of the three issues.
Yesterday they told me that the technician had tested the parking sensors and reported all ok, no faults. Unconvinced, I went down and asked the service adviser to sit with me in the car as I drove forward 5m. Sure enough, the error IS still there. He has no clue why the technician had recorded no fault.
We agreed they’d keep the car overnight so they could carry on “working” on it today.
They have told me today that the parking sensor and traffic data issues are “probably” arising because I haven’t installed the latest OTA update in the car.
I’ve asked them how I can install the update when the App doesn’t work - it won’t recognise/pair with my car, the old app was fine. This has stumped them for the moment.
I don’t think their so-called Master Technicians have a clue with these cars. This is my second chaotic experience with apparently basic issues seemingly beyond their capabilities. As a friend points out, the car was designed and built by German engineers; it can’t be fixed by British mechanics.
After a bit of a punch-up they’ve lent me an ID5 demonstrator. I’ve said I’ll return it only when they’ve fixed my car and the made the App work.
Who’d like to take a guess at how long I’ll have the ID5 for? I’ll start the process by saying a minimum of one week.
Simon_GH said:
My neighbour had a loan ID3 which played up - ended up with the car immobilised. Turned out to be the 12v battery which doesn’t change with the main drive batteries. Probably unrelated but an easy one to try all the same. Low voltage can play havoc with some cars.
Had that one! That was the cause of the last chaotic/hopeless experience with the dealer. In the end I found the answer and resolution on the internet myself.The reality is cars have moved on and changed in tech very considerably, very quickly. The support network hasnt. Nor for the most part is it likely too either.
The trade is going to require a lot of very different people with different, more advanced skills than most currently have.
Thats irrespective of propulsion, though EV adds another, additional layer to grasp.
The trade is going to require a lot of very different people with different, more advanced skills than most currently have.
Thats irrespective of propulsion, though EV adds another, additional layer to grasp.
None of this surprises me sadly. I find that these days the guys that work at the dealerships don't even understand the spec/options of modern cars, what pack gets what, which functions are offered by which tech etc... The notion these uneducated turnips can fix the crap they don't even know exists... hmm.
As above, it's not an EV issue but a tech heavy car issue, which these days is virtually all new cars.
This situation will inevitably improve, the manufacturers will start to slide in reliability ratings and then compete with each other to climb back up. This happened in the early noughties when European manufacturers decided they could out-tech the Japanese and they could, but they then couldn't fix any of the stuff for ages. Merc were particularly shocking back then.
Tbh I just can't wait for the next ten years to be out of the way, there is so much turmoil in the industry right now and not just the obvious EV vs ICE debate.
As above, it's not an EV issue but a tech heavy car issue, which these days is virtually all new cars.
This situation will inevitably improve, the manufacturers will start to slide in reliability ratings and then compete with each other to climb back up. This happened in the early noughties when European manufacturers decided they could out-tech the Japanese and they could, but they then couldn't fix any of the stuff for ages. Merc were particularly shocking back then.
Tbh I just can't wait for the next ten years to be out of the way, there is so much turmoil in the industry right now and not just the obvious EV vs ICE debate.
Sounds like poor software from vw and then lack of training at the dealer.
Reminds me of an insignia I had a few years ago that went in for a minor issue, came back with the cruise control and rear electric windows inactive. Turns out they’d loaded the software update for a lower spec model of the car, but took them half a day to flash the right version.
Reminds me of an insignia I had a few years ago that went in for a minor issue, came back with the cruise control and rear electric windows inactive. Turns out they’d loaded the software update for a lower spec model of the car, but took them half a day to flash the right version.
The quality of user experience of modern cars, and EV’s in particular given the simplicity of the power train, is more determined by software engineering than mechanical engineering today.
The legacy automotive industry still haven’t got their heads around this and how to rapidly develop quality software.
VAG software is particularly awful - both from a reliability and user experience point of view. They’re a car company trying to do software and their lunch will be eaten by software companies who build cars because it’s actually easier to get the physical bit right.
You’ve then got the problem of expecting mechanics to repair what are actually computer problems. Now no offence to mechanics, but if you were good at fixing computer problems why would you be a mechanic when the computer industry has far more opportunity with substantially better pay and working conditions?
Decades of automotive manufacturing experience is worth very little these days. The Chinese are here already and Tesla is now too expensive for anyone to acquire. I actually think there’s a bright future for Tesla as an OEM supplying software to other car manufacturers - a “car OS” with self driving capability that manufacturers could tailor to their requirements will be an easy sell.
The legacy automotive industry still haven’t got their heads around this and how to rapidly develop quality software.
VAG software is particularly awful - both from a reliability and user experience point of view. They’re a car company trying to do software and their lunch will be eaten by software companies who build cars because it’s actually easier to get the physical bit right.
You’ve then got the problem of expecting mechanics to repair what are actually computer problems. Now no offence to mechanics, but if you were good at fixing computer problems why would you be a mechanic when the computer industry has far more opportunity with substantially better pay and working conditions?
Decades of automotive manufacturing experience is worth very little these days. The Chinese are here already and Tesla is now too expensive for anyone to acquire. I actually think there’s a bright future for Tesla as an OEM supplying software to other car manufacturers - a “car OS” with self driving capability that manufacturers could tailor to their requirements will be an easy sell.
My sense is that dealers need two types of technician.
One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
WindyCommon said:
My sense is that dealers need two types of technician.
One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
Correct. I think almost everyone is trying to do the same, not just VW.One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
As quinny says, plenty of well paid jobs in software that dont involve long hours, crap work conditions in cold sheds, and brutal employers with stupid bonus schemes.
Dont know what the answer is though?
WindyCommon said:
My sense is that dealers need two types of technician.
One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
While that's a reasonable supposition, it may also be that VW expects the first group to do the techy stuff without proper training.One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
monkfish1 said:
WindyCommon said:
My sense is that dealers need two types of technician.
One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
Correct. I think almost everyone is trying to do the same, not just VW.One in overalls in the workshop that gets their hands dirty replacing brake pads, suspension parts, whatever.
One in clean clothes in the showroom (or remote?) who works to resolve software problems. This one looks and sounds more like an Apple “Genius” and has detailed up to date knowledge of all software etc.
At the moment it looks like VW are trying to train people from the first group to do the job of the second group. It’s not working, and it’s not going to work.
As quinny says, plenty of well paid jobs in software that dont involve long hours, crap work conditions in cold sheds, and brutal employers with stupid bonus schemes.
Dont know what the answer is though?
But in reality the job remains chiefly a mechanical one, with most of the techie stuff 'solved' by swapping out packaged modules that throw up faults when diagnosed.
What's going wrong is I think is:
a) Not enough thought going into how to make trouble shooting formulaic, fool proof and thorough. Every function of the car should be designed taking into account the various ways it could possibly fail, and have an engineered in solution to make that failure diagnosable accurately.
b) Simply not enough mechanics trained to work on the cars, especially the high voltage components. Also not enough garage facilities for the cars - which will take time as obviously 8/10's of the garage is still kitted up for ICE at present.
The above will self correct in time. Any manufacturer that has a sustained inability to repair it's own cars will suffer a sales and reputational drop before long - they will sort it out. In the mean time it's important to remember that most faults will not be unique and soon enough the common ones will be understood and quickly identifiable. Also important to note that as cars become simpler, despite the new layers of electronic tech, faults are highly likely to become less frequent - there is already evidence of this.
Times of transition are never going to be smooth.
WindyCommon said:
Simon_GH said:
My neighbour had a loan ID3 which played up - ended up with the car immobilised. Turned out to be the 12v battery which doesn’t change with the main drive batteries. Probably unrelated but an easy one to try all the same. Low voltage can play havoc with some cars.
Had that one! That was the cause of the last chaotic/hopeless experience with the dealer. In the end I found the answer and resolution on the internet myself.borcy said:
As for updates with extras, do many of the companies keep a list of which car has what in each build standard of which they'll be a lot?
On BMW's at least there's a VO code which describes what configuration the car is in (including optional extras etc). Coding a module to the car is often just loading that code into the module.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff