Chinese EV’s virtually uninsurable

[anonymous-user]

Interesting article

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-insurance/362519...

[malaccamax]

Super annoying that these newer companies don't launch in the UK with a parts supply operation in place. Its short sighted and stuffs them when the insurance cost puts customers off. As Thatcham says, the cars themselves are fine.

[anonymous-user]

malaccamax said:

Super annoying that these newer companies don't launch in the UK with a parts supply operation in place. Its short sighted and stuffs them when the insurance cost puts customers off. As Thatcham says, the cars themselves are fine.

Other than they are probably monitoring your every move

[Sheepshanks]

I have been wondering about this - I've read of people changing mid-policy and getting a reasonable price, then come renewal the insurer declines to renew. And at that point there's not a lot you can do but pay whatever you're asked.

Also, never mind accidents, what happens if these go wrong and the manufacturers just says there's no loan car available? Possible fine for most PHers - just use one of our other cars - but a lot of people would be stuffed.

[poo at Paul's]

Pretty much everything made in China since a Ming Vase is entirely disposable, and their economy exploits that very fact.
Their cars will be no different, unless something seriously dramatic changes, and it will be tear inducing to see amount of wastage in Europe as a result.
Plenty of 10 to 20 year old German diesel barges still out there earning their keep, despite Govt efforts to make them unviable, many that are not cost effective in Europe go to developing nations and carry on. 10 year old Chinese EVs will have been "recycled" (binned) 3 years ago.

IMO, it has the potential to be an ecological disaster, but almost certainly will be an economic one.

[survivalist]

poo at Paul's said:

Pretty much everything made in China since a Ming Vase is entirely disposable, and their economy exploits that very fact.
Their cars will be no different, unless something seriously dramatic changes, and it will be tear inducing to see amount of wastage in Europe as a result.
Plenty of 10 to 20 year old German diesel barges still out there earning their keep, despite Govt efforts to make them unviable, many that are not cost effective in Europe go to developing nations and carry on. 10 year old Chinese EVs will have been "recycled" (binned) 3 years ago.

IMO, it has the potential to be an ecological disaster, but almost certainly will be an economic one.

The main issue seems to availability of parts and a lack of supporting repairers / main dealers.

Plenty of stuff coming out of china now is of decent quality.

[Chromegrill]

survivalist said:

The main issue seems to availability of parts and a lack of supporting repairers / main dealers.

Plenty of stuff coming out of china now is of decent quality.

As the linked article implies - one of the the companies making these uninsurable cars males half the world's ipads.

Maybe after a prang they should have an arrangement to loan you a replacement and ship your car back to China for a repair!

[survivalist]

Chromegrill said:

survivalist said:

The main issue seems to availability of parts and a lack of supporting repairers / main dealers.

Plenty of stuff coming out of china now is of decent quality.

As the linked article implies - one of the the companies making these uninsurable cars males half the world's ipads.

Maybe after a prang they should have an arrangement to loan you a replacement and ship your car back to China for a repair!

Not sure about shipping it back to china, but otherwise the idea has merits. Just have a % of spare cars for the UK and have a central point for all the broken ones - ship in the parts in batches. With EVs the small, local garage is challenged anyway as there isn’t much in the way of servicing anyway.

[Dingu]

86 said:

malaccamax said:

Super annoying that these newer companies don't launch in the UK with a parts supply operation in place. Its short sighted and stuffs them when the insurance cost puts customers off. As Thatcham says, the cars themselves are fine.

Other than they are probably monitoring your every move

So is everything.

They’ll be mighty disappointed.

[poo at Paul's]

survivalist said:

poo at Paul's said:

Pretty much everything made in China since a Ming Vase is entirely disposable, and their economy exploits that very fact.
Their cars will be no different, unless something seriously dramatic changes, and it will be tear inducing to see amount of wastage in Europe as a result.
Plenty of 10 to 20 year old German diesel barges still out there earning their keep, despite Govt efforts to make them unviable, many that are not cost effective in Europe go to developing nations and carry on. 10 year old Chinese EVs will have been "recycled" (binned) 3 years ago.

IMO, it has the potential to be an ecological disaster, but almost certainly will be an economic one.

The main issue seems to availability of parts and a lack of supporting repairers / main dealers.

Plenty of stuff coming out of china now is of decent quality.

Well that's always been the issue, availability of parts to repair things from China. As for "decent quality" there's been a handful of MGs here and these BYD things and the Ora thing have sold a handful and been here 5 minutes! So it is difficult to be sure of their actual quality! Immaterial though, as the Chinese way is to sell stuff, and when it breaks, sell more new stuff.

We are on our 3rd swimming pool heat pump in now 7 years, but it was 3rd in 5 years. One replaced under warranty as was cheaper than them trying to fix it, (£2800 item), and the UK importer could not get anyone to come out from closer than 100 miles away to even look. One, needed just a new condensor, even though they still make the same pump, no hope in hell of sourcing one! So we had to buy a new unit and just keep the old one in the garage "for spares". Although the guys 100 miles away has now given up heat pumps so who knows who we can get to come fix it if it fails again?

The demands for cheap EVs will be met by China, soon we will be able to get them for equivalent now of £10 to £12k. But at what cost. Such machines will not have a minimum10 year parts availability back up after they cease to be produced, such as the case for is European and Japanese ICE vehicles now. it's likley they will be near disposable after a few years use.

[ConnectionError]

poo at Paul's said:

survivalist said:

poo at Paul's said:

Pretty much everything made in China since a Ming Vase is entirely disposable, and their economy exploits that very fact.
Their cars will be no different, unless something seriously dramatic changes, and it will be tear inducing to see amount of wastage in Europe as a result.
Plenty of 10 to 20 year old German diesel barges still out there earning their keep, despite Govt efforts to make them unviable, many that are not cost effective in Europe go to developing nations and carry on. 10 year old Chinese EVs will have been "recycled" (binned) 3 years ago.

IMO, it has the potential to be an ecological disaster, but almost certainly will be an economic one.

The main issue seems to availability of parts and a lack of supporting repairers / main dealers.

Plenty of stuff coming out of china now is of decent quality.

Well that's always been the issue, availability of parts to repair things from China. As for "decent quality" there's been a handful of MGs here and these BYD things and the Ora thing have sold a handful and been here 5 minutes! So it is difficult to be sure of their actual quality! Immaterial though, as the Chinese way is to sell stuff, and when it breaks, sell more new stuff.

We are on our 3rd swimming pool heat pump in now 7 years, but it was 3rd in 5 years. One replaced under warranty as was cheaper than them trying to fix it, (£2800 item), and the UK importer could not get anyone to come out from closer than 100 miles away to even look. One, needed just a new condensor, even though they still make the same pump, no hope in hell of sourcing one! So we had to buy a new unit and just keep the old one in the garage "for spares". Although the guys 100 miles away has now given up heat pumps so who knows who we can get to come fix it if it fails again?

The demands for cheap EVs will be met by China, soon we will be able to get them for equivalent now of £10 to £12k. But at what cost. Such machines will not have a minimum10 year parts availability back up after they cease to be produced, such as the case for is European and Japanese ICE vehicles now. it's likley they will be near disposable after a few years use.

I agree with the disposable comment, but how does this fit in with "net zero". I have a feeling in a few years there will be a realisation that we are going backwards, not dissimilar to the change to diesel a few years ago!

[Sheepshanks]

poo at Paul's said:

The demands for cheap EVs will be met by China, soon we will be able to get them for equivalent now of £10 to £12k. But at what cost. Such machines will not have a minimum10 year parts availability back up after they cease to be produced, such as the case for is European and Japanese ICE vehicles now. it's likley they will be near disposable after a few years use.

It'd be a massive risk to outright buy one. If they do get down to £10-12K then perhaps people will risk it though, but paying £25-£40K of your own money would be pretty insane,

Goodness knows what's going to happen to them at the end of pcp / leases. Perhaps they'll be pcp / leased again, but they're surely going to have to be very cheap.

[Basil Brush]

poo at Paul's said:

survivalist said:

poo at Paul's said:

Pretty much everything made in China since a Ming Vase is entirely disposable, and their economy exploits that very fact.
Their cars will be no different, unless something seriously dramatic changes, and it will be tear inducing to see amount of wastage in Europe as a result.
Plenty of 10 to 20 year old German diesel barges still out there earning their keep, despite Govt efforts to make them unviable, many that are not cost effective in Europe go to developing nations and carry on. 10 year old Chinese EVs will have been "recycled" (binned) 3 years ago.

IMO, it has the potential to be an ecological disaster, but almost certainly will be an economic one.

The main issue seems to availability of parts and a lack of supporting repairers / main dealers.

Plenty of stuff coming out of china now is of decent quality.

Well that's always been the issue, availability of parts to repair things from China. As for "decent quality" there's been a handful of MGs here and these BYD things and the Ora thing have sold a handful and been here 5 minutes! So it is difficult to be sure of their actual quality! Immaterial though, as the Chinese way is to sell stuff, and when it breaks, sell more new stuff.

We are on our 3rd swimming pool heat pump in now 7 years, but it was 3rd in 5 years. One replaced under warranty as was cheaper than them trying to fix it, (£2800 item), and the UK importer could not get anyone to come out from closer than 100 miles away to even look. One, needed just a new condensor, even though they still make the same pump, no hope in hell of sourcing one! So we had to buy a new unit and just keep the old one in the garage "for spares". Although the guys 100 miles away has now given up heat pumps so who knows who we can get to come fix it if it fails again?

The demands for cheap EVs will be met by China, soon we will be able to get them for equivalent now of £10 to £12k. But at what cost. Such machines will not have a minimum10 year parts availability back up after they cease to be produced, such as the case for is European and Japanese ICE vehicles now. it's likley they will be near disposable after a few years use.

I think domestic swimming pool pumps are slightly more niche than cheap runabout vehicles.

[OutInTheShed]

Sheepshanks said:

poo at Paul's said:

The demands for cheap EVs will be met by China, soon we will be able to get them for equivalent now of £10 to £12k. But at what cost. Such machines will not have a minimum10 year parts availability back up after they cease to be produced, such as the case for is European and Japanese ICE vehicles now. it's likley they will be near disposable after a few years use.

It'd be a massive risk to outright buy one. If they do get down to £10-12K then perhaps people will risk it though, but paying £25-£40K of your own money would be pretty insane,

Goodness knows what's going to happen to them at the end of pcp / leases. Perhaps they'll be pcp / leased again, but they're surely going to have to be very cheap.

The Chinese will get their act together.
The distinction between Chinese and Japanese/European will be eroded.
Where are those Honda things made? Wuhan?
There are lots of Joint Venture companies and factories in China.

The motoring ecosystem is changing, as well as the Chinese carmakers needing to adapt to fit into the European market, the European insurance and repair industries may have to adapt to the new reality of cheap Chinese cars?
Perhaps the new inscrutable motor company will lease you a car with insurnace included, and if a car gets written off, they just change it for a different one?
Perhaps it would be more efficient for cars needing major repair to be shipped off to India or somewhere to be 'factory refurbished' rather than the current system of lots of indy body shops?

[Sheepshanks]

OutInTheShed said:

Where are those Honda things made? Wuhan?

Yep. Comes with original Covid as standard.

[ChocolateFrog]

Does make Sal Sacrifice even more appealing.

No idea what the insurance costs would be on 'my' Chinese EV.

Certainly not less than 2 monthly payments and probably not less than 3. Nice not to have to even think about it.

[raspy]

Sheepshanks said:

It'd be a massive risk to outright buy one. If they do get down to £10-12K then perhaps people will risk it though, but paying £25-£40K of your own money would be pretty insane,

Goodness knows what's going to happen to them at the end of pcp / leases. Perhaps they'll be pcp / leased again, but they're surely going to have to be very cheap.

That's the way the world is heading, in terms of leasing of used EVs. Look at Toyota's plans.

"Erik Gustafsson, project leader of communications for the bZ4X, said: ‘It’s not completely specified how it’s going to work, but we don’t want to just sell the car after three years, we want to take the car back and find another use for it with the customer.’

Taking the car back won’t just be a car ‘coming back after its lease lifetime, going for a valet and being put on a forecourt’, but returning it to Toyota’s factory in Burnaston, which currently produces the Corolla.

While there, the car will be ‘refurbished to be as fresh as possible for the next stage of its Kanzen lifecycle’, said Toyota."

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/toyota-unv...

[otolith]

86 said:

Other than they are probably monitoring your every move

Terrifying. The CCP will find out when I pop to the shops. Perhaps I could get a large enough tinfoil hat to cover the entire car?

[Elroy Blue]

Vid showing the quality issues on Chinese cars

https://youtu.be/ZWzbq-Q_oTc?si=cYnLMFw_-iR-cMQZ

[otolith]

Elroy Blue said:

Vid showing the quality issues on Chinese cars

https://youtu.be/ZWzbq-Q_oTc?si=cYnLMFw_-iR-cMQZ

Just like "Jap Crap" in the 70's, and all those laughable Korean cars in the 90's. Whatever happened to them, did Japanese and Korean cars ever manage to get a foothold in Western markets? Some people even thought they might seriously threaten domestic brands! Asking from beneath the rock I've been living under for 40 years...