Type 2 AC Charger (simple, no "appification")

[daveor8v8]

Hello EV people,

I've got to the point of considering a home charger and switching to Octopus Go to charge.

I want something dead simple, no 4G, no Wifi, no App. Hopefully "made in UK" - but I'm not wedded to that.

if anyone is willing to say their experience with a model number of a Type 2 (untethered) AC charge point (wall mounted at home) I'd appreciate the comment.

When not in use I'll turn it off on the DB inside the property if electricity theft becomes an issue.

DaveO

[paradigital]

Whilst the MyEnergi Zappi does have an app, you don’t need to use it. I can’t remember the last time I opened the app.

Made in the UK, untethered is an option, has a keypad that can be used to require PIN entry to start charging.

[uknick]

I think all new chargers have to have wi-fi.

[gmaz]

One of these with a 32A commando socket is as basic as you can get, for your requirements. All new wall mounted chargers have to be "smart" these days.

https://ecoharmony.co.uk/products/copy-of-5m-type-...


edit - just found this dumb charger, but it will need a PEN device/earth rod

https://electricvehicleequipment.co.uk/product/ele...

Edited by gmaz on Friday 1st March 21:32

[daveor8v8]

Ah - ok... I've learnt a lot that I didn't know...

I seems @uknick is correct!

from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/regulations-electric-v... :

"...regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality, allowing the charging of an electric vehicle when there is less demand on the grid, or when more renewable electricity is available. The regulations also ensure that charge points meet certain device-level requirements, enabling a minimum level of access, security and information for consumers."

So... any fixed charger is now more complicated (harder to repair) and costly than it needs to be.

@gmaz I'm going to ask about that charger, but I *think* no electrician will be allowed to install it! Otherwise indeed... 32A Commando seems to be the way to go. I'm going to call Octopus to see what restrictions are on their tarriff and I will revert.

Thank you for your responses. I did not realise how complicated things have become in the UK for home AC EV charging!

[CheesecakeRunner]

How are you planning on scheduling the charges for use on Octopus Go, if you don’t buy a charger with any sort of smart functionality? Through the car?

As it is, other than a commando socket you’ll be hard pressed to find one that isn’t smart, and a commando used for EV charging needs to be installed to the same standards as an EVSE anyway, so it won’t (shouldn’t) be any cheaper.

daveor8v8 said:

Thank you for your responses. I did not realise how complicated things have become in the UK for home AC EV charging!

They’re really not. Just because the chargers come with all the bells and whistles, doesn’t mean you have to use them.

[paradigital]

CheesecakeRunner said:

They’re really not. Just because the chargers come with all the bells and whistles, doesn’t mean you have to use them.

Exactly. If my Zappi loses internet connectivity, it continues to work just fine as a dumb charger, albeit one that can be locked with a PIN and can monitor energy usage with a CT clamp.

No need to shy away from “smart” chargers as a whole, but I’d definitely avoid anything that NEEDS an app to work. Having to rely on a business to continue to indefinitely provide server services is a daft idea that can quickly turn a “smart” product into an unusable one in need of immediate replacement.

[Paul Drawmer]

There's also this crazy rule about a random wait before charge. I think it's a legal requirement for new fitments of domestic EV charge points.

It's a regulation to randomise a random event that can be overridden anyway.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Paul Drawmer said:

There's also this crazy rule about a random wait before charge. I think it's a legal requirement for new fitments of domestic EV charge points.

It's a regulation to randomise a random event that can be overridden anyway.

It’s not crazy. People tend to schedule charges for common times (especially so with off-peak periods), so the slight random start by a minute or so is to prevent massive surges on the grid. Just like when every sticks the kettle on in an ad break, but potentially worse. Imagine a street of chargers all immediately requesting 7kW at exactly the same time.

[paradigital]

CheesecakeRunner said:

It’s not crazy. People tend to schedule charges for common times (especially so with off-peak periods), so the slight random start by a minute or so is to prevent massive surges on the grid. Just like when every sticks the kettle on in an ad break, but potentially worse. Imagine a street of chargers all immediately requesting 7kW at exactly the same time.

But the solution to chargers all kicking off at the same time isn’t to randomise start times by a few minutes, it’s to schedule for the END of a charge. The likelihood of identical sized batteries with identical SoC, connected to identical chargers is that slim that scheduling for a required end of charge time will by definition stagger start times.

My car typically starts charging between 12 and 1am for this reason. I plug it in at around 5pm.

[CheesecakeRunner]

You’re right, but most people don’t think like that. Especially with off peak slots. They think “my cheap period is 11pm to 6am, right that’s when I’ll schedule the car for”.

[Murph7355]

CheesecakeRunner said:

You’re right, but most people don’t think like that. Especially with off peak slots. They think “my cheap period is 11pm to 6am, right that’s when I’ll schedule the car for”.

There might be other solutions to that problem. Maybe even better ones.

Does the "random minute shift" even solve for the problem you highlight in a robust way?

[daveor8v8]

Hmm... random backoff is definitely a solution - I've used this in distributed applicaiton development and it's part of the Ethernet protocol, both combat that exact issue.

Back to my original issue... given that I'm going "commando" to get a dumb charger - does anyone have a model of Type2 7kw charger that they use and would recommend? (one that comes with a commando plug).

[blank]

daveor8v8 said:

Hmm... random backoff is definitely a solution - I've used this in distributed applicaiton development and it's part of the Ethernet protocol, both combat that exact issue.

Back to my original issue... given that I'm going "commando" to get a dumb charger - does anyone have a model of Type2 7kw charger that they use and would recommend? (one that comes with a commando plug).

Juice booster.

Not remotely cheap though.

[NDA]

I fitted a 7kw commando socket around 3 years ago to connect to my Tesla. Never had a problem with it - I wasn't particularly keen on having a charger that connected to the internet and could be controlled by the supplier.

The commando socket connects to the Tesla 'mobile connector' via a 32 amp tail which replaces the regular 13 amp tail.

Very easy, works well and the car schedules the charge which, in my case, is set to charge at my cheap rate.

My limited understanding of these things is that to have the super low Octopus (or other) rates, you need to have a smart meter, I don't have one of those either.