Can Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo make sense as EV's?
Discussion
Obviously they can all work as EV's, and at a machine level they can likely soon exceed the capabilities of ICE models. I'm a fan of electrification in general.
But in the case of these specialised performance cars, how will they tackle the problem that for decades their USP and major selling point has been an engine, literally cars built around their engines.
It seems best to ignore practical advantages of electrification in this instance, the cars were never practical anyway - buyers aren't bothered about practicality.
The strong point these brands retain is their badge of course. A lambo SUV will be better as an EV and arguably it's already given up on purity by the fact it's an SUV, so I can see buyers of those cars - they still get the badge and the kudos.
But the super/sports cars? Those cars without an engine note and without any real performance advantage over an affordable(ish) family hatchback EV... Who buys those?
Rimac are worth a mention here, but they're very limited numbers and very expensive. Not exactly a replacement suitable for the type who spend £150k on a Porsche, £250k on a Ferrari/Lambo.
Thoughts on where these brands go next? How do they retain their value and build new USP's?
But in the case of these specialised performance cars, how will they tackle the problem that for decades their USP and major selling point has been an engine, literally cars built around their engines.
It seems best to ignore practical advantages of electrification in this instance, the cars were never practical anyway - buyers aren't bothered about practicality.
The strong point these brands retain is their badge of course. A lambo SUV will be better as an EV and arguably it's already given up on purity by the fact it's an SUV, so I can see buyers of those cars - they still get the badge and the kudos.
But the super/sports cars? Those cars without an engine note and without any real performance advantage over an affordable(ish) family hatchback EV... Who buys those?
Rimac are worth a mention here, but they're very limited numbers and very expensive. Not exactly a replacement suitable for the type who spend £150k on a Porsche, £250k on a Ferrari/Lambo.
Thoughts on where these brands go next? How do they retain their value and build new USP's?
At a basic level they look great and go fast. That plus a badge that marketing has made desirable is why a Ferrari is worth more than a Corvette, say.
I’d think their future USP will be looks and an ability to package the batteries, etc. in a way that allows a sporty feel to be retained. This may require specialist (and more expensive) battery technology, which might justify some of the price. The rest would be justified by quality and materials used, I suppose?
I’d think their future USP will be looks and an ability to package the batteries, etc. in a way that allows a sporty feel to be retained. This may require specialist (and more expensive) battery technology, which might justify some of the price. The rest would be justified by quality and materials used, I suppose?
CLK-GTR said:
I don't see why not, but I think by the time the petrol powered internal combustion engine is legislated out of existence they will have developed an alternative fuel hybrid. The future is not 100% EV and eventually the politicians will have to accept that.
The politicians have already accepted joint agreements and targets with other governments around the world, they're committed to BEV future OR anything else as clean and efficient.The fact of the matter is that nothing else being researched right now is even close to matching BEV. If it were different, I'd be very interested in something closer to petrol too, it would be amazing. But also extremely unlikely.
DanL said:
At a basic level they look great and go fast. That plus a badge that marketing has made desirable is why a Ferrari is worth more than a Corvette, say.
I’d think their future USP will be looks and an ability to package the batteries, etc. in a way that allows a sporty feel to be retained. This may require specialist (and more expensive) battery technology, which might justify some of the price. The rest would be justified by quality and materials used, I suppose?
That's what I'm think about - where can they make the high price tag felt moving forwards, where can they go with car design that is significant enough to offset the missing engine note and sensation?I’d think their future USP will be looks and an ability to package the batteries, etc. in a way that allows a sporty feel to be retained. This may require specialist (and more expensive) battery technology, which might justify some of the price. The rest would be justified by quality and materials used, I suppose?
Perhaps they can't achieve that in full, but it's interesting to consider where they might develop to get as close as possible.
TheDeuce said:
The politicians have already accepted joint agreements and targets with other governments around the world, they're committed to BEV future OR anything else as clean and efficient.
The fact of the matter is that nothing else being researched right now is even close to matching BEV. If it were different, I'd be very interested in something closer to petrol too, it would be amazing. But also extremely unlikely.
BEV isn't going to work for every transport application though, so either an alternative does need to be developed or the governments will have to keep pushing the zero emission target back. I think its unlikely we will see a day when a Ferrari is only available with an electric motor.The fact of the matter is that nothing else being researched right now is even close to matching BEV. If it were different, I'd be very interested in something closer to petrol too, it would be amazing. But also extremely unlikely.
I think the majority of Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo owners don't buy it for the engine.
Experience maybe but that's subject to definition, I would suggest mostly they are with people who want to say look at me I can and the more extreme the statistics or resulting commotion elevates the model and maybe brand.
At one point this used to involve engine/performance, now that performance can be achieved a lot easier, it'll be style, exclusivity and infotainment. The supercar, performance, hyper whatever you want to call them cars will just have to shift focus to another differentiator. A couple of months giving cars to the right tiktokers and they will be the new must haves.
So yes they make more sense than ever, just not by your definition.
Experience maybe but that's subject to definition, I would suggest mostly they are with people who want to say look at me I can and the more extreme the statistics or resulting commotion elevates the model and maybe brand.
At one point this used to involve engine/performance, now that performance can be achieved a lot easier, it'll be style, exclusivity and infotainment. The supercar, performance, hyper whatever you want to call them cars will just have to shift focus to another differentiator. A couple of months giving cars to the right tiktokers and they will be the new must haves.
So yes they make more sense than ever, just not by your definition.
I have no problems with them.
But I watched a podcast yesterday with Chris Harris and chums ("Collecting" something or other on YT). One chap was very happy with his and had a lot of praise for the Taycan. But another said that waiting for a charge was a pain. Chris bemoaned the fact that although the headline was 0-80% in 18 minutes, this is based on 350kW and there aren't many around. Therefore, you have to wait longer. Personally I have no problems waiting for a charge but appreicate that those with £100k -£200k to splash on a car might not be as patient.
So to me, a supercar EV makes sense but am not sure those with the money to buy them feel the same, currently. Perhaps when we're no longer moaning about the infrastrucutre and charge times have reduced further, noone will be bothered but we may be a few years off that.
But I watched a podcast yesterday with Chris Harris and chums ("Collecting" something or other on YT). One chap was very happy with his and had a lot of praise for the Taycan. But another said that waiting for a charge was a pain. Chris bemoaned the fact that although the headline was 0-80% in 18 minutes, this is based on 350kW and there aren't many around. Therefore, you have to wait longer. Personally I have no problems waiting for a charge but appreicate that those with £100k -£200k to splash on a car might not be as patient.
So to me, a supercar EV makes sense but am not sure those with the money to buy them feel the same, currently. Perhaps when we're no longer moaning about the infrastrucutre and charge times have reduced further, noone will be bothered but we may be a few years off that.
I guess they will need to make their products really stand out now. It's almost stupid for me to say but the engine feels like so much of the car - not just whether it can get you from 0-60 in under 4 seconds (which seems to be the benchmark for modern ICE supercars), but also the sound (volume as well as tonal quality... you can even tell the difference between the Gallardo 5.0 vs 5.2!), the power delivery and how high its revs to. The suspension and body is relevant, of course, but that feels easier to do. Any manufacturer could create a sporty looking body that handles well if they wanted to. Thing is, crazy performance was once just for sports cars, but now you have 4x4s doing mental 0-60 times which makes very sporty cars less interesting. Throw in active suspension and they'll handle really well, too.
And giving an EV a sound just to tick the sound box is daft. Make it chuffchuff or clipclop. Or tinkle like milk bottles bumping each other whenever you drive over a pothole.
And giving an EV a sound just to tick the sound box is daft. Make it chuffchuff or clipclop. Or tinkle like milk bottles bumping each other whenever you drive over a pothole.
SDK said:
I see no reason why cars like this can't continue with ICE power.
The mileage they do is insignificant anyway - obviously there will likely be large tax bills to pay for this to continue.
It's the mass use transport we need to clean up !
Trouble is, if mass transport no longer needs petrol, there might not be many places to fill your Ferrari up. That's a long way down the road, though, there will still be plenty of petrol cars on the road for a long time after they stop being sold new.The mileage they do is insignificant anyway - obviously there will likely be large tax bills to pay for this to continue.
It's the mass use transport we need to clean up !
TheDeuce said:
Can Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo make sense as EV's?
Let me ask you another question. Do you believe that in 25 years time, Porsches, Ferraris and Lambos that produce a disproportionate amount of noise, need a ridiculous amount of maintenance, need to be filled with lots of hard to find chemicals all the time and will generally be considered old tech make any sense at all? Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo buyers may not be the most rational consumers, but they're not that irrational.Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo ICE cars will be like steam locomotives. There will be some anoraks who still love and cherish them, but the world will have moved on to better things. Which will not be ICE powered.
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