GM backflip on EVs
Discussion
GM have announced that they are changing their strategy and going to introduce hybrids. Seems they’ve realised being EV only isn’t the way to go.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-mot...
This is interesting because a few years ago they stopped all ICE development - all “new” ICE were going to be existing platform with only a new body, and they closed down / sold off all the RHD business to generate money for EV development.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-mot...
This is interesting because a few years ago they stopped all ICE development - all “new” ICE were going to be existing platform with only a new body, and they closed down / sold off all the RHD business to generate money for EV development.
Not exactly a back-flip, they're still apparently committing to having no ICE vehicles of any sort by 2035. If I'm reading the article correctly these interim hybrid models are US (or at least North American) market only so it sounds like a short term bodge due to that market lagging behind the rest of the world in terms of EV take-up.
It also doesn't say they are going to develop any new engines. It reads to me like they intend to extend the life of one of their existing small petrol engines to essentially use it as a range extender. I don't think they currently have a hybrid platform so it'll be interesting to see if they develop a new one, try to bodge a hybrid setup onto an existing ICE only platform, or resurrect the old Volt platform.
It did (and sitll does) seem to me that some of the mainstream automotive brands, having rather been left behind initially, were barrelling towards full EV rather more quickly than was sensible! See also Porsche making the new version of their best selling model electric only!
It also doesn't say they are going to develop any new engines. It reads to me like they intend to extend the life of one of their existing small petrol engines to essentially use it as a range extender. I don't think they currently have a hybrid platform so it'll be interesting to see if they develop a new one, try to bodge a hybrid setup onto an existing ICE only platform, or resurrect the old Volt platform.
It did (and sitll does) seem to me that some of the mainstream automotive brands, having rather been left behind initially, were barrelling towards full EV rather more quickly than was sensible! See also Porsche making the new version of their best selling model electric only!
Edited by kambites on Thursday 1st February 09:38
I think this is more of a case that GM and many of the other legacy manufactuers realising that they really can't compete with the new boys (BYD, Tesla et al) and make any money, which doesn't look good to the market. So they are instead continuing to produce cars that they know they can make some margin on.
Like Ford, GM has been hugely subsidised by the US government for many years (especially during the financial crash). This time, if they don't meet their net zero expectations, they face enormous fines instead.
Like Toyota, VW, Ford, Mercedes and BMW, they should have invested in electrification and supported this with their enormous marketing budgets some time ago. Classic large company complacency focussing on short-term shareholder value - see Kodak, Blackberry, Blockbusters...
Like Ford, GM has been hugely subsidised by the US government for many years (especially during the financial crash). This time, if they don't meet their net zero expectations, they face enormous fines instead.
Like Toyota, VW, Ford, Mercedes and BMW, they should have invested in electrification and supported this with their enormous marketing budgets some time ago. Classic large company complacency focussing on short-term shareholder value - see Kodak, Blackberry, Blockbusters...
Edited by Fastlane on Thursday 1st February 20:13
Fastlane said:
I think this is more of a case that GM and many of the other legacy manufactuers realising that they really can't compete with the new boys (BYD, Tesla et al) and make any money, which doesn't look good to the market. So they are instead continuing to produce cars that they know they can make some margin on.
Like Ford, GM has been hugely subsidised by the US government for many years (especially during the financial crash). This time, if they don't meet their net zero expectations, they face enormous fines instead.
Like Toyota, VW, Ford, Mercedes and BMW, they should have invested in electrification and supported this with their enormous marketing budgets some time ago. Classic large company complacency focussing on short-term shareholder value - see Kodak, Blackberry, Blockbusters...
I remember a few years back Fast Lane (who are big EV proponents and self confessed Tesla fan boys) did point out that there were many areas in the US away from the major cities with no real EV infrastructure and none expected in the short to medium term.Like Ford, GM has been hugely subsidised by the US government for many years (especially during the financial crash). This time, if they don't meet their net zero expectations, they face enormous fines instead.
Like Toyota, VW, Ford, Mercedes and BMW, they should have invested in electrification and supported this with their enormous marketing budgets some time ago. Classic large company complacency focussing on short-term shareholder value - see Kodak, Blackberry, Blockbusters...
Edited by Fastlane on Thursday 1st February 20:13
The Toyota model is almost certainly based on the fact that much of Africa is not electrifying to any great extent and is a very big market, also not sure just how good many of the Eastern European countries are.
dapprman said:
The Toyota model is almost certainly based on the fact that much of Africa is not electrifying to any great extent and is a very big market.
This comment comes up repeatedly.I guess car sales are being conflated with area.
The entire continent of Africa has fewer cars than the UK and the new car market is less than half the size of the UK.
In relative terms, it's tiny.
Asia-Pacific, Europe and North America account for 90% of all cars.
No, not a typo.
I'm really not sure how Toyota plan to preserve 10 million new sales a year if they are going to focus on Africa, South America and the Middle East.
Mr Toyoda is not the CEO & President any more.
I have a lot of respect for him, I think he should sit back a bit now and let the executives figure out where to take the company next.
GT9 said:
dapprman said:
The Toyota model is almost certainly based on the fact that much of Africa is not electrifying to any great extent and is a very big market.
This comment comes up repeatedly.I guess car sales are being conflated with area.
The entire continent of Africa has fewer cars than the UK and the new car market is less than half the size of the UK.
In relative terms, it's tiny.
Asia-Pacific, Europe and North America account for 90% of all cars.
No, not a typo.
I'm really not sure how Toyota plan to preserve 10 million new sales a year if they are going to focus on Africa, South America and the Middle East.
Mr Toyoda is not the CEO & President any more.
I have a lot of respect for him, I think he should sit back a bit now and let the executives figure out where to take the company next.
I was actually shocked to see a Porsche Taycan Turbo in the Western Cape and thought, that’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. There are very very few EV’s in South Africa and considering that South Africa would probably be considered to be one of the more “civilised” African countries, I just can’t see a future for EV on that continent.
If the country wasn’t so corrupt and crime ridden, there would be no excuse why solar and wind power couldn’t thrive - however solar panels are a big target for criminals so we’re no further forward.
Nomme de Plum said:
ajap1979 said:
For me, this is just evidence that GM can't produce any products that can compete.
That's the nail on the head and they are not alone. There are others in the legacy pool of MMs that are struggling to produce desirable cars. Boomroasted said:
Apparently Ford can’t shift EV’s in the USA, even after a 9 billion bail out from the government they’re losing money. Let’s be fair…finally people are realising they’re not all they are cracked up to be.
People are confusing lack of sales with no demand, rather than just crap products Ford and GM currently produce EV’s which few people want to buy at the price they are selling them at.
Tesla, BYD and BMW seem to be able sell EV’s easily enough !
SDK said:
Boomroasted said:
Apparently Ford can’t shift EV’s in the USA, even after a 9 billion bail out from the government they’re losing money. Let’s be fair…finally people are realising they’re not all they are cracked up to be.
People are confusing lack of sales with no demand, rather than just crap products Ford and GM currently produce EV’s which few people want to buy at the price they are selling them at.
Tesla, BYD and BMW seem to be able sell EV’s easily enough !
Ford… “the customer demand just isn’t there”. Clowns
kambites said:
Not exactly a back-flip, they're still apparently committing to having no ICE vehicles of any sort by 2035. If I'm reading the article correctly these interim hybrid models are US (or at least North American) market only so it sounds like a short term bodge due to that market lagging behind the rest of the world in terms of EV take-up.
It also doesn't say they are going to develop any new engines. It reads to me like they intend to extend the life of one of their existing small petrol engines to essentially use it as a range extender. I don't think they currently have a hybrid platform so it'll be interesting to see if they develop a new one, try to bodge a hybrid setup onto an existing ICE only platform, or resurrect the old Volt platform.
It did (and sitll does) seem to me that some of the mainstream automotive brands, having rather been left behind initially, were barrelling towards full EV rather more quickly than was sensible! See also Porsche making the new version of their best selling model electric only!
They could do worse than revive the volt... A very nicely engineered thing really. People who had them absolutely loved them. Shame we never got the second gen one here really.It also doesn't say they are going to develop any new engines. It reads to me like they intend to extend the life of one of their existing small petrol engines to essentially use it as a range extender. I don't think they currently have a hybrid platform so it'll be interesting to see if they develop a new one, try to bodge a hybrid setup onto an existing ICE only platform, or resurrect the old Volt platform.
It did (and sitll does) seem to me that some of the mainstream automotive brands, having rather been left behind initially, were barrelling towards full EV rather more quickly than was sensible! See also Porsche making the new version of their best selling model electric only!
Edited by kambites on Thursday 1st February 09:38
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