GM backflip on EVs

Author
Discussion

Jader1973

Original Poster:

4,223 posts

205 months

Thursday 1st February
quotequote all
GM have announced that they are changing their strategy and going to introduce hybrids. Seems they’ve realised being EV only isn’t the way to go.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-mot...

This is interesting because a few years ago they stopped all ICE development - all “new” ICE were going to be existing platform with only a new body, and they closed down / sold off all the RHD business to generate money for EV development.

kambites

68,173 posts

226 months

Thursday 1st February
quotequote all
Not exactly a back-flip, they're still apparently committing to having no ICE vehicles of any sort by 2035. If I'm reading the article correctly these interim hybrid models are US (or at least North American) market only so it sounds like a short term bodge due to that market lagging behind the rest of the world in terms of EV take-up.

It also doesn't say they are going to develop any new engines. It reads to me like they intend to extend the life of one of their existing small petrol engines to essentially use it as a range extender. I don't think they currently have a hybrid platform so it'll be interesting to see if they develop a new one, try to bodge a hybrid setup onto an existing ICE only platform, or resurrect the old Volt platform.


It did (and sitll does) seem to me that some of the mainstream automotive brands, having rather been left behind initially, were barrelling towards full EV rather more quickly than was sensible! See also Porsche making the new version of their best selling model electric only!

Edited by kambites on Thursday 1st February 09:38

Jader1973

Original Poster:

4,223 posts

205 months

Thursday 1st February
quotequote all
It is interesting to watch.

It seems quite a few went all in and are now backing off, as they decide EV uptake has stalled.

I wonder if the Japanese strategy of continuing to be more diverse and lagging a bit in EVs might work out to be more effective.

Fastlane

1,254 posts

222 months

Thursday 1st February
quotequote all
I think this is more of a case that GM and many of the other legacy manufactuers realising that they really can't compete with the new boys (BYD, Tesla et al) and make any money, which doesn't look good to the market. So they are instead continuing to produce cars that they know they can make some margin on.

Like Ford, GM has been hugely subsidised by the US government for many years (especially during the financial crash). This time, if they don't meet their net zero expectations, they face enormous fines instead.

Like Toyota, VW, Ford, Mercedes and BMW, they should have invested in electrification and supported this with their enormous marketing budgets some time ago. Classic large company complacency focussing on short-term shareholder value - see Kodak, Blackberry, Blockbusters...

Edited by Fastlane on Thursday 1st February 20:13

Secret lemonade drinker

812 posts

55 months

Thursday 1st February
quotequote all
BYD and Tesla are not the benchmark

They are Betamax. They are not the future for quite some considerable time

PBCD

758 posts

143 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Secret lemonade drinker said:
BYD and Tesla are not the benchmark
Who / what is the benchmark then, when it comes to electric cars?

Nomme de Plum

5,724 posts

21 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Secret lemonade drinker said:
BYD and Tesla are not the benchmark

They are Betamax. They are not the future for quite some considerable time
So why are Tesla sales so buoyant and didn't BYD just overtake them?



ajap1979

8,014 posts

192 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
For me, this is just evidence that GM can't produce any products that can compete.

Nomme de Plum

5,724 posts

21 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
ajap1979 said:
For me, this is just evidence that GM can't produce any products that can compete.
That's the nail on the head and they are not alone. There are others in the legacy pool of MMs that are struggling to produce desirable cars.

dapprman

2,421 posts

272 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Fastlane said:
I think this is more of a case that GM and many of the other legacy manufactuers realising that they really can't compete with the new boys (BYD, Tesla et al) and make any money, which doesn't look good to the market. So they are instead continuing to produce cars that they know they can make some margin on.

Like Ford, GM has been hugely subsidised by the US government for many years (especially during the financial crash). This time, if they don't meet their net zero expectations, they face enormous fines instead.

Like Toyota, VW, Ford, Mercedes and BMW, they should have invested in electrification and supported this with their enormous marketing budgets some time ago. Classic large company complacency focussing on short-term shareholder value - see Kodak, Blackberry, Blockbusters...

Edited by Fastlane on Thursday 1st February 20:13
I remember a few years back Fast Lane (who are big EV proponents and self confessed Tesla fan boys) did point out that there were many areas in the US away from the major cities with no real EV infrastructure and none expected in the short to medium term.
The Toyota model is almost certainly based on the fact that much of Africa is not electrifying to any great extent and is a very big market, also not sure just how good many of the Eastern European countries are.

GT9

7,299 posts

177 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
dapprman said:
The Toyota model is almost certainly based on the fact that much of Africa is not electrifying to any great extent and is a very big market.
This comment comes up repeatedly.
I guess car sales are being conflated with area.
The entire continent of Africa has fewer cars than the UK and the new car market is less than half the size of the UK.
In relative terms, it's tiny.
Asia-Pacific, Europe and North America account for 90% of all cars.
No, not a typo.
I'm really not sure how Toyota plan to preserve 10 million new sales a year if they are going to focus on Africa, South America and the Middle East.
Mr Toyoda is not the CEO & President any more.
I have a lot of respect for him, I think he should sit back a bit now and let the executives figure out where to take the company next.

Fastlane

1,254 posts

222 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Secret lemonade drinker said:
BYD and Tesla are not the benchmark

They are Betamax. They are not the future for quite some considerable time
I think maybe you have been having rather too much vodka in your R Whites...

Boxster5

792 posts

113 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
GT9 said:
dapprman said:
The Toyota model is almost certainly based on the fact that much of Africa is not electrifying to any great extent and is a very big market.
This comment comes up repeatedly.
I guess car sales are being conflated with area.
The entire continent of Africa has fewer cars than the UK and the new car market is less than half the size of the UK.
In relative terms, it's tiny.
Asia-Pacific, Europe and North America account for 90% of all cars.
No, not a typo.
I'm really not sure how Toyota plan to preserve 10 million new sales a year if they are going to focus on Africa, South America and the Middle East.
Mr Toyoda is not the CEO & President any more.
I have a lot of respect for him, I think he should sit back a bit now and let the executives figure out where to take the company next.
If we look at South Africa as an example, no one in their right mind would consider an EV and that’s down to the frequent loadshedding (managed power cuts) due to their ancient power station infrastructure still heavily reliant on coal and being backed by Russia.
I was actually shocked to see a Porsche Taycan Turbo in the Western Cape and thought, that’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. There are very very few EV’s in South Africa and considering that South Africa would probably be considered to be one of the more “civilised” African countries, I just can’t see a future for EV on that continent.
If the country wasn’t so corrupt and crime ridden, there would be no excuse why solar and wind power couldn’t thrive - however solar panels are a big target for criminals so we’re no further forward.

modeller

461 posts

171 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
If you look at the massive rate of solar PV installations in SA , then having an EV isn't such a problem. Load shedding is well publicised.

D4rez

1,556 posts

61 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Nomme de Plum said:
ajap1979 said:
For me, this is just evidence that GM can't produce any products that can compete.
That's the nail on the head and they are not alone. There are others in the legacy pool of MMs that are struggling to produce desirable cars.
They’re literally RiM in 2007 talking about the physical keyboard. This news is them kicking the can down the road whilst they fall further and further behind on cost/product desirability by not facing into reality. I think the EV transition will take out a a few brands, ford of Europe for example

Boomroasted

238 posts

137 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Apparently Ford can’t shift EV’s in the USA, even after a 9 billion bail out from the government they’re losing money. Let’s be fair…finally people are realising they’re not all they are cracked up to be.

eldar

22,443 posts

201 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
modeller said:
If you look at the massive rate of solar PV installations in SA , then having an EV isn't such a problem. Load shedding is well publicised.
The massive increase in theft of them is somewhat of a drawback. In theory great, less so in operation.

SDK

1,077 posts

258 months

Friday 2nd February
quotequote all
Boomroasted said:
Apparently Ford can’t shift EV’s in the USA, even after a 9 billion bail out from the government they’re losing money. Let’s be fair…finally people are realising they’re not all they are cracked up to be.
People are confusing lack of sales with no demand, rather than just crap products

Ford and GM currently produce EV’s which few people want to buy at the price they are selling them at.

Tesla, BYD and BMW seem to be able sell EV’s easily enough !

D4rez

1,556 posts

61 months

Saturday 3rd February
quotequote all
SDK said:
Boomroasted said:
Apparently Ford can’t shift EV’s in the USA, even after a 9 billion bail out from the government they’re losing money. Let’s be fair…finally people are realising they’re not all they are cracked up to be.
People are confusing lack of sales with no demand, rather than just crap products

Ford and GM currently produce EV’s which few people want to buy at the price they are selling them at.

Tesla, BYD and BMW seem to be able sell EV’s easily enough !
Exactly - Model Y worlds best selling car in 2023 (all cars not just EVs).

Ford… “the customer demand just isn’t there”. Clowns

Otispunkmeyer

12,872 posts

160 months

Saturday 3rd February
quotequote all
kambites said:
Not exactly a back-flip, they're still apparently committing to having no ICE vehicles of any sort by 2035. If I'm reading the article correctly these interim hybrid models are US (or at least North American) market only so it sounds like a short term bodge due to that market lagging behind the rest of the world in terms of EV take-up.

It also doesn't say they are going to develop any new engines. It reads to me like they intend to extend the life of one of their existing small petrol engines to essentially use it as a range extender. I don't think they currently have a hybrid platform so it'll be interesting to see if they develop a new one, try to bodge a hybrid setup onto an existing ICE only platform, or resurrect the old Volt platform.


It did (and sitll does) seem to me that some of the mainstream automotive brands, having rather been left behind initially, were barrelling towards full EV rather more quickly than was sensible! See also Porsche making the new version of their best selling model electric only!

Edited by kambites on Thursday 1st February 09:38
They could do worse than revive the volt... A very nicely engineered thing really. People who had them absolutely loved them. Shame we never got the second gen one here really.