Rapid/ultra rapid target for service stations missed
Discussion
and missed by some chalk. the target for the end of 2023 was at least 6 rapid/ultra rapid chargers at every service station in the UK. apparently 4 out of 10 have actually got them.
my understanding is the biggest bottleneck is connecting new chargers to the grid as sub stations aren't up to it yet. the requirement for this has been obvious for a good while now, so why are we so bad at planning for it? it's going to be even worse on a local level when heat pumps and EVs are more prevalent.
my understanding is the biggest bottleneck is connecting new chargers to the grid as sub stations aren't up to it yet. the requirement for this has been obvious for a good while now, so why are we so bad at planning for it? it's going to be even worse on a local level when heat pumps and EVs are more prevalent.
There are already more EV charging points than fuel stations in the UK. Most people have a charger at home so leave home full every day. It’s better to increase the number of fast chargers per existing fast charging centre than to aim to have a set number of fast chargers per petrol station.
With my petrol car I don't 'plan my refueling' on a longer trip, I just notice when the fuel gauge gets low-ish and then pull into the next petrol station I see.
With my EV I very much do use the various apps to identify a working set of chargers en route, at a good place to break my journey. As such I don't need every services to have chargers, I can find them at other locations (eg Starbucks, pubs) near my route on the app.
Generally most major routes seem to have chargers at frequent enough intervals.
It would be nice in the future to get to the point where you don't need to plan charging, and can just pull in at the next services when you're low, but not absolutely necessary IMO.
Anything that increases the total number of fast chargers out there on major routes is good, as it reduces concern about having to wait to charge (especially as EV sales are mandated upwards and so more are on the road).
There is a possible alternate future in which EV range becomes so long that few rapid chargers are needed as 99% of trips can be done on one charge, however it's probably better to have cars with smaller batteries and accept charging every couple of hours or so.
It’s also just a very old fashioned way of looking at it and totally inefficient to say “put a fast charger in every petrol station” and it completely ignores that there is less need for fast chargers everywhere.
We have a chance to reinvent how and where vehicles are placed. If everyone had access to a fast charger within 100mile radius of their house on major motorways, then you’d always be able to get to one if you leave home charged. They should just pave over a few fields next to motorways in strategic locations and have rows of chargers.
It’s so inefficient to spread them out in existing petrol stations as the infrastructure for one bank of chargers is similar to 100 (obviously not but you get my drift).
Last year there were 14000 new Teslas registered in Austria. There are 31 supercharger locations.
We have a chance to reinvent how and where vehicles are placed. If everyone had access to a fast charger within 100mile radius of their house on major motorways, then you’d always be able to get to one if you leave home charged. They should just pave over a few fields next to motorways in strategic locations and have rows of chargers.
It’s so inefficient to spread them out in existing petrol stations as the infrastructure for one bank of chargers is similar to 100 (obviously not but you get my drift).
Last year there were 14000 new Teslas registered in Austria. There are 31 supercharger locations.
I think you’re missing the point a little. I totally agree we don’t need a EV charger for every petrol pump. And while their maybe more EV points currently the vast but if these are 7kw chargers.
What I think we do need is motorway rapid chargers. I’ve had my EV for years and as it’s not a Tesla you really do have to plan where you’re going to stop, where has chargers, how many etc.
6 rapids at every services or 12 every other etc would be a huge boost and likely convince those on the fence they can ‘live with an EV
What I think we do need is motorway rapid chargers. I’ve had my EV for years and as it’s not a Tesla you really do have to plan where you’re going to stop, where has chargers, how many etc.
6 rapids at every services or 12 every other etc would be a huge boost and likely convince those on the fence they can ‘live with an EV
jonathan_roberts said:
There are already more EV charging points than fuel stations in the UK. Most people have a charger at home so leave home full every day. It’s better to increase the number of fast chargers per existing fast charging centre than to aim to have a set number of fast chargers per petrol station.
More charging points than petrol stations! But each petrol station averages 6(?) pumps & ICE cars stay less than 5 minutes not 30+ minutes. However I acknowledge that many EVs will make rare visits to charge away from home whereas that is the only choice for ICE cars. Just read the link, I noticed it specifically mentions Leicester Forest Services,
I'm fairly regular at that services on the Northbound side and I know they installed chargers but have now realised there is insufficient power supply to the site for whatever reason so the chargers have been sat there for over 12 months with covers over them and no solution in sight.
I'm fairly regular at that services on the Northbound side and I know they installed chargers but have now realised there is insufficient power supply to the site for whatever reason so the chargers have been sat there for over 12 months with covers over them and no solution in sight.
Adam1980 said:
I think you’re missing the point a little. I totally agree we don’t need a EV charger for every petrol pump. And while their maybe more EV points currently the vast but if these are 7kw chargers.
What I think we do need is motorway rapid chargers. I’ve had my EV for years and as it’s not a Tesla you really do have to plan where you’re going to stop, where has chargers, how many etc.
6 rapids at every services or 12 every other etc would be a huge boost and likely convince those on the fence they can ‘live with an EV
I’m advocating a network of huge charging stations on motorways, not a fast charger per petrol station. What I think we do need is motorway rapid chargers. I’ve had my EV for years and as it’s not a Tesla you really do have to plan where you’re going to stop, where has chargers, how many etc.
6 rapids at every services or 12 every other etc would be a huge boost and likely convince those on the fence they can ‘live with an EV
ICE need petrol stations everywhere because nobody has a fuel station at home.
jonathan_roberts said:
It seems like the targets are being set by someone who doesn’t understand that there is no need for a fast charger in every petrol station.
I think the target was for every motorway service station, not every petrol station. I don't think it's unreasonable for every motorway service station to have at least six EV charge points!As long as the government continues to come up with grand statements of ambition but not spend any significant money, things are not going to change. Getting the public charging infrastructure up to scratch needs billions invested in it, a significantly proportion of which needs to come from the public purse (ideally in such a way that the government maintains a stake, rather than just giving money to their mates' companies), not a few tens of millions.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 2nd January 09:50
jonathan_roberts said:
We have a chance to reinvent how and where vehicles are placed.
It’s so inefficient to spread them out in existing petrol stations as the infrastructure for one bank of chargers is similar to 100 (obviously not but you get my drift).
Whilst there is absolutely a need for rapid charging on major routes, I’d argue it’d have a far greater impact if most car parks had slow (3.5kW to 7kW) charging available in every parking space. Just make it the norm that if a car is parked, it’s plugged in. It’s so inefficient to spread them out in existing petrol stations as the infrastructure for one bank of chargers is similar to 100 (obviously not but you get my drift).
CheesecakeRunner said:
Whilst there is absolutely a need for rapid charging on major routes, I’d argue it’d have a far greater impact if most car parks had slow (3.5kW to 7kW) charging available in every parking space. Just make it the norm that if a car is parked, it’s plugged in.
Vastly more expensive and disruptive to implement though. I don't know how many parking spaces there are in the UK, but it's going to be a big number!CheesecakeRunner said:
Whilst there is absolutely a need for rapid charging on major routes, I’d argue it’d have a far greater impact if most car parks had slow (3.5kW to 7kW) charging available in every parking space. Just make it the norm that if a car is parked, it’s plugged in.
It makes sense only at places where you will spend a few hours and only for people that don't have cheaper charging at home.The issue with a lot of destination chargers at the moment is they are so expensive that only people in a complete bind will use them, and the adoption of people without home charging is still very low.
Seaside towns like Porthcawl have very well used destination chargers on street and in car parks. Valleys towns do not.
Total convenience i.e. the over provision of rapid chargers comes at a cost.
Obviously the capital and ongoing maintenance cost but also Electrical suppliers have something called reservation fee for a development. This is a charge for unused capacity as it can't be sold elsewhere.
This all has to be funded and it will be the consumer that pays.
Posters are already highlighting the disparity between home and away charging. Surely over-provision can only make this worse.
Supermarkets maybe able to cross subsidise but it's more complicated elsewhere.
Obviously the capital and ongoing maintenance cost but also Electrical suppliers have something called reservation fee for a development. This is a charge for unused capacity as it can't be sold elsewhere.
This all has to be funded and it will be the consumer that pays.
Posters are already highlighting the disparity between home and away charging. Surely over-provision can only make this worse.
Supermarkets maybe able to cross subsidise but it's more complicated elsewhere.
Evanivitch said:
There's a map elsewhere, but what it shows is how poorly served the M6 and M5 are for rapids at services. Which means you then get a crush at. Bristol and Exeter during the summer holidays.
Massive new capacity at Exeter has come online, but that just puts a plaster on the issue.
We went to Cornwall a few years ago and rapid passed Exeter of major roads basically didn’t exist. I’m hoping it’s much improved by nowMassive new capacity at Exeter has come online, but that just puts a plaster on the issue.
said:
Posters are already highlighting the disparity between home and away charging. Surely over-provision can only make this worse.
Correct, 7.5p/kWh at home or 79p/kWh at a rapid charger. Imagine that in the ICE world, £1.50/l at your local station or £15/l on the motorway. Charging away from home is very expensiveEvanivitch said:
The issue with a lot of destination chargers at the moment is they are so expensive that only people in a complete bind will use them, and the adoption of people without home charging is still very low.
Seaside towns like Porthcawl have very well used destination chargers on street and in car parks. Valleys towns do not.
I really can't see why anyone without home charging would have an EV, all the chargers in Porthcral are listed at 50p/kWhSeaside towns like Porthcawl have very well used destination chargers on street and in car parks. Valleys towns do not.
That would translate to my EV this time of the year doing the equivalent of 27.5mpg
Still not loads of chargers in Porthcawl, though.
And it looks like the sort of place they would be needed.
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