EV Charging at work
Discussion
I work for a small engineering company (~80 people). We have Environmental (ISO14001) accreditation and it has been suggested that as part of our continuous improvement, we should promote the use of electric vehicles for commuting by providing EV charging points at work. We have already introduced easy wins like lift sharing and cycle2work schemes.
Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this process as an employer and could offer any insight.
We have no fleet vehicles. 1 Employee with a Leaf and a couple have plug-in hybrids.
What sort of kW does it take to charge?
Is there a 1 size fits all solution to cover all makes and models of EV?
Do you charge employees? If so at cost...or with a profit?
Do employees have to manage the charging and move cars throughout the day?
If so, is this disruptive to the working day?
Appreciate any advice anyone can give as I have no experience with electric vehicles.
Just wondering if anyone else has gone through this process as an employer and could offer any insight.
We have no fleet vehicles. 1 Employee with a Leaf and a couple have plug-in hybrids.
What sort of kW does it take to charge?
Is there a 1 size fits all solution to cover all makes and models of EV?
Do you charge employees? If so at cost...or with a profit?
Do employees have to manage the charging and move cars throughout the day?
If so, is this disruptive to the working day?
Appreciate any advice anyone can give as I have no experience with electric vehicles.
I don't have any specific experience, but can help with a few points.
The former at 230V gives most cars roughly 50 miles of range if plugged in for an 8 hour workday. The latter would fully charge some EVs, and give others ~170 miles of range if left plugged in all day. (Assuming EVs do about 3 miles per kWh, some can be worse than this, others quite a bit better).
The dedicated chargers can potentially offer more than 7kW, but few vehicles can take advantage of these speeds on the AC 'slow charging' protocol.
I'm guessing that installing a Rapid DC charger (50kw upwards, 30-60 mins charge) would be far too expensive and not necessary.
The driver needs to bring their own charging cable for their car, but this typically will have come with the car and will be kept in the boot so shouldn't be an obstacle.
Alternatively you could provide outdoor sockets and drivers could plug in their own three-pin chargers, again universal.
So I guess the 'ideal' solution would be enough 7kW chargers for everyone who wants so cars can be left plugged in, if you can stretch to that.
Eg https://pod-point.com/products/business/twin
If not, I'd be tempted to look at some good quality external power outlets and have drivers plug in three-pin chargers (at 2.3 kW each).
On pricing (and overall) I think it's worth thinking through what your aims are here.
Conversely those who can't charge at home could easily be paying 50-80p a kWh at public chargers, on top of the inconvenience of going out of their way and hanging around for half an hour. So being able to take a full charge home at the weekend for a 'fair' price could easily be the difference between an EV working for them, and not.
kebab1 said:
What sort of kW does it take to charge?
There are two options, you can charge at 10A (2.3 kW) via a normal power socket, or at 32A (7 kW) with a dedicated hard-wired charger. The former at 230V gives most cars roughly 50 miles of range if plugged in for an 8 hour workday. The latter would fully charge some EVs, and give others ~170 miles of range if left plugged in all day. (Assuming EVs do about 3 miles per kWh, some can be worse than this, others quite a bit better).
The dedicated chargers can potentially offer more than 7kW, but few vehicles can take advantage of these speeds on the AC 'slow charging' protocol.
I'm guessing that installing a Rapid DC charger (50kw upwards, 30-60 mins charge) would be far too expensive and not necessary.
kebab1 said:
Is there a 1 size fits all solution to cover all makes and models of EV?
Yes, a 7 kW charger will have a Type 2 socket which all EVs can charge from. The driver needs to bring their own charging cable for their car, but this typically will have come with the car and will be kept in the boot so shouldn't be an obstacle.
Alternatively you could provide outdoor sockets and drivers could plug in their own three-pin chargers, again universal.
kebab1 said:
Do employees have to manage the charging and move cars throughout the day?
I would suggest it's better to have one slow charger per EV than a single rapid charger that everyone has to share, mainly for just this reason. It's also probably cheaper to set up, and it's better for batteries to be charged more slowly most of the time.So I guess the 'ideal' solution would be enough 7kW chargers for everyone who wants so cars can be left plugged in, if you can stretch to that.
Eg https://pod-point.com/products/business/twin
If not, I'd be tempted to look at some good quality external power outlets and have drivers plug in three-pin chargers (at 2.3 kW each).
On pricing (and overall) I think it's worth thinking through what your aims are here.
- Making life easier / cheaper for the person who already has an EV?
- Giving out free electricity to encourage employees to choose an EV?
- Providing charging so that employees who drive longer distances to work can own a shorter-range EV and rely on charging at work?
- Providing charging so that employees who cannot charge at home find it affordable and convenient to own an EV?
Conversely those who can't charge at home could easily be paying 50-80p a kWh at public chargers, on top of the inconvenience of going out of their way and hanging around for half an hour. So being able to take a full charge home at the weekend for a 'fair' price could easily be the difference between an EV working for them, and not.
kebab1 said:
I
What sort of kW does it take to charge?
Is there a 1 size fits all solution to cover all makes and models of EV?
Do you charge employees? If so at cost...or with a profit?
Do employees have to manage the charging and move cars throughout the day?
If so, is this disruptive to the working day?
You'd want to install a 32amp 7kw charger - otherwise people will need 10 hours to add 130 miles of range and hog the outlet.What sort of kW does it take to charge?
Is there a 1 size fits all solution to cover all makes and models of EV?
Do you charge employees? If so at cost...or with a profit?
Do employees have to manage the charging and move cars throughout the day?
If so, is this disruptive to the working day?
Yes, there's a one size socket.
Some companies charge - and in fact lease out the charging to companies like Pod Point who will manage the whole thing. The company can set whatever rate they want... free, subsidised or full rate (or more). https://pod-point.com/solutions/business/workplace...
Yes, employees should be encouraged to maybe have no longer than 4 hours at a charger - assuming others will want to use the outlet.
Not disruptive if the chargers are in the company car park - only takes 5 minutes to move a car.
Would add a little purely practical experience based on some chargers originally installed quite some years ago on a higher education campus. Nothing about the actual installation but you need to have more than sufficient parking spaces.
That was not the case, parks always full and overflowing , hence constant arguments with a) ICE cars occupying the charging spaces because there were no other spaces available, and b) users with EVs that had finished charging refusing to move to allow another user to charge as there was probably no space for them to move to and they'd have had to go and park out on public roads or pay for council parks. It seemed beyond the wit of most users to cooperate and say you move I'll take your space and you can have mine.
Doesn't help that it seems to be policy to deliberately have insufficient spaces to encourage use of public transport / cycling.
That was not the case, parks always full and overflowing , hence constant arguments with a) ICE cars occupying the charging spaces because there were no other spaces available, and b) users with EVs that had finished charging refusing to move to allow another user to charge as there was probably no space for them to move to and they'd have had to go and park out on public roads or pay for council parks. It seemed beyond the wit of most users to cooperate and say you move I'll take your space and you can have mine.
Doesn't help that it seems to be policy to deliberately have insufficient spaces to encourage use of public transport / cycling.
A group of commercial chargers will communicate with one another or a central management function and vary their supplied currents dynamically depending on the capability of the connected car and any overall limits that you prescribe. 3-phase AC chargers will supply between 1.4kW (6A on a single phase) and 22kW (32A on 3 phases) depending on the car, cable and any limits.
Therefore you could install 2 charging points or 20, set the same overall power limit depending on the power allocation you can spare, and let the chargers figure out the rest.
Therefore you could install 2 charging points or 20, set the same overall power limit depending on the power allocation you can spare, and let the chargers figure out the rest.
Not from an employer point of view but my work has 4 22kw chargers. If you have 3 phase electricity then this would make more sense than 7kw. Most EVs will only charge up to 11kw on these chargers but there are a few which can take the full rate.
We've been through a few iterations of managing the chargers. Initially it was a free for all then they introduced a 4 hour time limit. Then some people didn't want to be constantly checking for free spaces so set up a teams chat which ended up with a waiting list in it. Unfortunately not everyone in the building has access to teams so many were either left out completely or had to get others to add their name to the list. We now have shorter time limits, with slots of 7-10, 10-1, 1-4 and 4-5 which can be signed up for on the day at reception on a first come first served basis. It works fairly well in that everyone has an equal opportunity and can select a time slot which suits their day.
The main learning point from my work is that there is just nowhere near enough charging capacity to satisfy everyone. 4 chargers were fine 18 months ago and people could stay on them most of the day. We now have 16 charging slots per day limited to 2 per person per week and they are all claimed before 8.30am due to the much higher numbers of EVs in the car park. This is in a building with around 600 hybrid working employees with roughly 10% having EVs or PHEVs
We've been through a few iterations of managing the chargers. Initially it was a free for all then they introduced a 4 hour time limit. Then some people didn't want to be constantly checking for free spaces so set up a teams chat which ended up with a waiting list in it. Unfortunately not everyone in the building has access to teams so many were either left out completely or had to get others to add their name to the list. We now have shorter time limits, with slots of 7-10, 10-1, 1-4 and 4-5 which can be signed up for on the day at reception on a first come first served basis. It works fairly well in that everyone has an equal opportunity and can select a time slot which suits their day.
The main learning point from my work is that there is just nowhere near enough charging capacity to satisfy everyone. 4 chargers were fine 18 months ago and people could stay on them most of the day. We now have 16 charging slots per day limited to 2 per person per week and they are all claimed before 8.30am due to the much higher numbers of EVs in the car park. This is in a building with around 600 hybrid working employees with roughly 10% having EVs or PHEVs
John87 said:
Not from an employer point of view but my work has 4 22kw chargers. If you have 3 phase electricity then this would make more sense than 7kw. Most EVs will only charge up to 11kw on these chargers but there are a few which can take the full rate.
'ang on. it all depends how the vehicles are used, surely. if it's just commuting to and from work, you'd be much better off with more lower powered chargers than 88kW being dominated by only 4 chargers. if vehicles are in and out on jobs all day, then maybe quicker charging would be more appropriate.Here in Geneva the emphasis is on providing quantity rather than speed: public/company/domestic car parks often have dozens of spaces equipped with 3.7kW charge points, many of them free.
So no need for moving vehicles twice a day around your works car park depending on booked slots, etc. Then again, commuting distances are much shorter, so 4-8 hours on a slow charger is adequate for topping up porpoises.
I have two off-street parking spaces in front of MichaelB Towers and a 11kW charge point (private dwellings are generally 3 phase in Switzerland) on the wall whose cable can reach either.
We also have two spaces in a 32-space shared underground car park beneath the communal lawn behind the building, but not directly accessible from the house (walk around the entire building, down stairs, etc) and also not directly connectable to my fusebox.
When I asked a local company about equipping the communal car park with charge points I was informed the maximum power allowed was limited by the standard SIG 44 amp supply.
There was an initial cost to install a main circuit around the perimeter and then people could equip their space(s) with their charge points connected off it, IIRC up to 7.4kW. But the more charge points installed would slow down charge times as the total power was balanced across the vehicles connected and drawing at the time.
Not enough of my neighbours were willing to share the initial installation cost, so the project came to nothing. Which is why three years ago I didn’t bother looking into it too much and just installed a box on the front of the house, which was massively cheaper and more convenient.
So no need for moving vehicles twice a day around your works car park depending on booked slots, etc. Then again, commuting distances are much shorter, so 4-8 hours on a slow charger is adequate for topping up porpoises.
I have two off-street parking spaces in front of MichaelB Towers and a 11kW charge point (private dwellings are generally 3 phase in Switzerland) on the wall whose cable can reach either.
We also have two spaces in a 32-space shared underground car park beneath the communal lawn behind the building, but not directly accessible from the house (walk around the entire building, down stairs, etc) and also not directly connectable to my fusebox.
When I asked a local company about equipping the communal car park with charge points I was informed the maximum power allowed was limited by the standard SIG 44 amp supply.
There was an initial cost to install a main circuit around the perimeter and then people could equip their space(s) with their charge points connected off it, IIRC up to 7.4kW. But the more charge points installed would slow down charge times as the total power was balanced across the vehicles connected and drawing at the time.
Not enough of my neighbours were willing to share the initial installation cost, so the project came to nothing. Which is why three years ago I didn’t bother looking into it too much and just installed a box on the front of the house, which was massively cheaper and more convenient.
John87 said:
Not from an employer point of view but my work has 4 22kw chargers. If you have 3 phase electricity then this would make more sense than 7kw. Most EVs will only charge up to 11kw on these chargers but there are a few which can take the full rate.
We've been through a few iterations of managing the chargers. Initially it was a free for all then they introduced a 4 hour time limit. Then some people didn't want to be constantly checking for free spaces so set up a teams chat which ended up with a waiting list in it. Unfortunately not everyone in the building has access to teams so many were either left out completely or had to get others to add their name to the list. We now have shorter time limits, with slots of 7-10, 10-1, 1-4 and 4-5 which can be signed up for on the day at reception on a first come first served basis. It works fairly well in that everyone has an equal opportunity and can select a time slot which suits their day.
The main learning point from my work is that there is just nowhere near enough charging capacity to satisfy everyone. 4 chargers were fine 18 months ago and people could stay on them most of the day. We now have 16 charging slots per day limited to 2 per person per week and they are all claimed before 8.30am due to the much higher numbers of EVs in the car park. This is in a building with around 600 hybrid working employees with roughly 10% having EVs or PHEVs
The behaviour you describe suggests it is free (you don't say) which most likely causes this behaviour. I know a few people who make no effort to charge at home (and could do so) as they can at work and go out of their way to obtain free electrons instead of cheap electrons. We've been through a few iterations of managing the chargers. Initially it was a free for all then they introduced a 4 hour time limit. Then some people didn't want to be constantly checking for free spaces so set up a teams chat which ended up with a waiting list in it. Unfortunately not everyone in the building has access to teams so many were either left out completely or had to get others to add their name to the list. We now have shorter time limits, with slots of 7-10, 10-1, 1-4 and 4-5 which can be signed up for on the day at reception on a first come first served basis. It works fairly well in that everyone has an equal opportunity and can select a time slot which suits their day.
The main learning point from my work is that there is just nowhere near enough charging capacity to satisfy everyone. 4 chargers were fine 18 months ago and people could stay on them most of the day. We now have 16 charging slots per day limited to 2 per person per week and they are all claimed before 8.30am due to the much higher numbers of EVs in the car park. This is in a building with around 600 hybrid working employees with roughly 10% having EVs or PHEVs
When this green box was first ticked at my work, it was a provision of a 3 pin socket at a dedicated bay, which the same car parked in every day as the factory started before the beginning of the offices flexi hours. Change took a while and the current iteration is podpoint managed (the cost suggests this is at profit) 7kw in the main car park as described above.
tvrfan007 said:
The behaviour you describe suggests it is free (you don't say) which most likely causes this behaviour. I know a few people who make no effort to charge at home (and could do so) as they can at work and go out of their way to obtain free electrons instead of cheap electrons
This is exactly it. Most people I know at work have access to a driveway and at least a 3 pin socket if not a full charging point so the charging at work is not through necessity. Personally I'm happy if it covers the cost of my commute and treat it as a perk rather than an expectation but in previous versions of our process, it was clearly being used to cover some people's entire weekly mileage. If EV uptake continues as it has so far, I reckon they should charge an equivalent cost to home charging to make EVs accessible to everyone. The benefit for most is less than £2.50 a day if on a good tariff at home so hardly breaking the bank compared to any other method of commuteDefinitely useful having chargers in place, type 2 socket ideally would suit most. Even at 3kW 16A it would be appreciated by people in PHEV or without home charging.
Charging 25-35p/kWh would be acceptable for most people that jeed a charge. Those that can easily charge at home will then be less inclined to block them.
Any visitors might also appreciate it. Stopping for a day of meetings or even a couple hours and avoiding a rapid charger on way home (7kW would be better then). Perhaps worth sharing on any visitor instructions you have.
Charging 25-35p/kWh would be acceptable for most people that jeed a charge. Those that can easily charge at home will then be less inclined to block them.
Any visitors might also appreciate it. Stopping for a day of meetings or even a couple hours and avoiding a rapid charger on way home (7kW would be better then). Perhaps worth sharing on any visitor instructions you have.
A lot of charge point operator should be able to impose an overstay fee to encourage employee's from staying in the bay all day. I.e 20p/kWh for 4 hours then charges £0.10p/ minute if the car is left plugged for longer than 4 hours. 20p/kWh would probably be a fair rate, much cheaper than charging in the wild, but would be more expensive than charging at home on a cheap over night tariff (for those people that have an at-home charger). I used to work for a Charge point operator and as such, the charging was free and a lot of employees had EV's. It was free to charge and it caused a lot of arguments. Funny enough it was low level management staff that felt entitled to free electricity wheras the engineers and call centre staff etc were pretty good about it.
Crudeoink said:
A lot of charge point operator should be able to impose an overstay fee to encourage employee's from staying in the bay all day. I.e 20p/kWh for 4 hours then charges £0.10p/ minute if the car is left plugged for longer than 4 hours. 20p/kWh would probably be a fair rate, .
I think an overstay becomes a question of liability if you're stuck on work related business when you're supposed to unplug!We've got 2 * 32A circuits enabling 4 charging points at work using easee.cloud - so the 11kWh brigade can max out their AC charging and everyone else is happy on 7kW. There's never more than 40 people in the office (lazy t
ts still WFH permanently, but that's another story), and very rarely are all 4 bays full. It's free to employees, and everyone of us could charge at home, but, because free, of course we don't!!
So on our limited experience, I'd go a bay for every 15-20 employees, but don't expect people to charge theirs at home even if they can, if you're giving away free electrons...
ts still WFH permanently, but that's another story), and very rarely are all 4 bays full. It's free to employees, and everyone of us could charge at home, but, because free, of course we don't!! So on our limited experience, I'd go a bay for every 15-20 employees, but don't expect people to charge theirs at home even if they can, if you're giving away free electrons...
tamore said:
John87 said:
Not from an employer point of view but my work has 4 22kw chargers. If you have 3 phase electricity then this would make more sense than 7kw. Most EVs will only charge up to 11kw on these chargers but there are a few which can take the full rate.
'ang on. it all depends how the vehicles are used, surely. if it's just commuting to and from work, you'd be much better off with more lower powered chargers than 88kW being dominated by only 4 chargers. if vehicles are in and out on jobs all day, then maybe quicker charging would be more appropriate.Maybe depends how far people drive to work, but getting 6-8hours at over 2kW/h should give 40-60miles of power in to vehicles, for LOTS of employees, versus fully filling up for 4 people.
Perhaps depends on what you think the take-up will be in the future.
Also: make sure there are rules that are enforced to stop cars parking that are not charging….nothing more frustrating for an EV driver than to find a chargepoint that is “ICE’d”, & unable to use it due to the fecklessness of the owner.
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