Cheap EV advice to replace a Leaf

[Rawhide]

Hi all, I'd welcome some guidance on what EV I could research to replace my wifes Leaf. We bought a 2016 30kwh Leaf a few years ago which had a salvage title which didn't really bother me. It had at best a range of about 110 miles but this has now dropped to about 90.

My wife is doing community nursing and working quite long shifts. She's really taken well to EV ownership but the combination of late/long shifts, limited break periods, and limited range really means the leaf is not really fit for purpose and starting to cause delays to travel.

I do have to point out my wife is not kind to cars. Panels get pranged,wheels kerbed etc. Thats why I didn't mind a salvage leaf and don't mind a similar salvage EV again. I'm comfortable swapping panels, bumpers etc if the damage is cosmetic. Resale has not been a big priority as a result and we tend to buy heavily depreciated cars.

I am a petrolhead and EVs are not something I know a lot about, but trust the pistonheads hive mind to guide me.

I think a real range of 125 miles + would be acceptable.

I should also point out we have access to 3 phase power at my property.

I've seen BMW i3s have come down a lot and are well regarded.

To set a budget, ideally 10k or quite a bit less.

It would be a family car, so 4 seats etc + boot. I have a petrol estate for long distance duty, and airport runs etc.

We live in the Cotswolds, so driving is mostly A/B roads, and some town work, but mostly higher speeds.

Feedback really welcome.

Edited by Rawhide on Monday 23 October 12:52

Edited by Rawhide on Tuesday 12th December 09:32

[Shabaza]

How about the 2018 onwards leaf?
they have 40kwh batteries and should do circa 140 miles comfortably.
Can be had for 8-10k

If you manage to find an MG5, better till being a small estate. They start at circa 12k, but there maybe cat N ones that pop up cheaper.
Capable of 200+ miles range quite easily

Lastly the Hyundai Kona is probably best and can do 250 miles.
Have seen a few at 12-13k, but again you may find one close to 10 if there is cosmetic damage or previous write off

[paradigital]

Assuming it’s large enough this screams Renault Zoe to me. Should be able to get one with an owned outright battery for around £5.5-6k. More than enough range for your use case and quite frugal.

[Bannock]

I think you should consider a battery-owned Renault Zoe. That's what I'm about to replace a 2017 30kwh Leaf with - like yours, my range is starting to drop and I want rid before it's utterly worthless.

I'm looking for the latest model possible, so a 52kwh R135, and I'm seeing 2021 examples as low as £11-12k. These have a realistic range of around 175-200 miles. I think they offer the best value for money at the cheap end of the EV market at the moment.

Example:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310092...

Zoe model names and specs are a minefield to interpret, but IMHO the R135 is the best model as it has the highest range and fastest charging specs, so it's the one to go for. On Autotrader I find I have to put R135 in the "Add Keywords" search field in order to filter out lesser models.

There is nothing else as good as these at this price level, and it's a bit smaller/narrower than a Leaf so might be more suitable for your Mrs.

[TikTak]

The Zoe and the Leaf are about the only options at anything less than £10k and these are short range cars unfortunately. You might get the odd Mini or Smart creep into that price range but again don't have huge charge ranges ... maybe a few i3s which would just about meet the criteria.

The EV 2nd hand market isn't there yet basically so you'd probably need to push the budget up to £15k to get a little bit more of a selection/availability.

[deckster]

A first gen Zoe with the 22kWh battery will struggle to better your Leaf, but £7k will get you into a 2nd-gen 2016/41kWh model, which will easily meet your range requirements. The 3rd gen/2019 model with the 52kWh battery is a little out of budget starting at around £11k, but that will do over 200 real-world miles on a charge.

Either of the 2nd or 3rd gen will do you 125 miles no worries at all.

[Rawhide]

Thanks everyone for these suggestions. Seems really good advice so far.

[TooLateForAName]

Leafs dont have any thermal management of the batteries which seems to be why they degrade so badly compared to pretty much anything else.

At £10k the zoe 50 seems a good option. Just need to be careful about charging options - not sure they all have dc rapid, but they are more likely than anything else to have 3 phase charging.

[SWoll]

deckster said:

A first gen Zoe with the 22kWh battery will struggle to better your Leaf, but £7k will get you into a 2nd-gen 2016/41kWh model, which will easily meet your range requirements. The 3rd gen/2019 model with the 52kWh battery is a little out of budget starting at around £11k, but that will do over 200 real-world miles on a charge.

Either of the 2nd or 3rd gen will do you 125 miles no worries at all.

Looks like you'll need £8k for the cheapest battery owned 41kW Zoe on AT. 96% battery on this one apparently so 150+ miles of range easily.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305147...

[deckster]

SWoll said:

deckster said:

A first gen Zoe with the 22kWh battery will struggle to better your Leaf, but £7k will get you into a 2nd-gen 2016/41kWh model, which will easily meet your range requirements. The 3rd gen/2019 model with the 52kWh battery is a little out of budget starting at around £11k, but that will do over 200 real-world miles on a charge.

Either of the 2nd or 3rd gen will do you 125 miles no worries at all.

Looks like you'll need £8k for the cheapest battery owned 41kW Zoe on AT. 96% battery on this one apparently so 150+ miles of range easily.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305147...

Yes - good spot. £7k for a lease battery vs £8k for an owned battery is a no-brainer.

[OutInTheShed]

i3 REx or Ampera?

Other than that, I think people have covered the obvious options.

OTOH I know people with quite similar needs who have gone back to petrol 'for now'.

[Rawhide]

Thanks - I seem to remember that some Zoes can charge at 22kwh from a three phase home installation which whilst not essential is a really nice feature I could make use of. The boot looks decent sized as well.

Whilst I like Renault as a brand I've seen some horror stories about reliability which make me a bit nervous. The leaf has been faultless (completely) in this regard.

[Rawhide]

OutInTheShed said:

OTOH I know people with quite similar needs who have gone back to petrol 'for now'.

I've also floated that idea of a small petrol engined car, think Toyota Yaris, or even a non ULEZ diesel but she loves EV cars and won't consider it. Just needs that bit more range. Also the tax on a diesel seem punitive so thats not ideal.

[Chris Type R]

Rawhide said:

Thanks - I seem to remember that some Zoes can charge at 22kwh from a three phase home installation which whilst not essential is a really nice feature I could make use of. The boot looks decent sized as well.

Whilst I like Renault as a brand I've seen some horror stories about reliability which make me a bit nervous. The leaf has been faultless (completely) in this regard.

I'm not sure how useful it is, but doesn't the Leaf come with bidirectional (VTG) support ?

[OutInTheShed]

Rawhide said:

OutInTheShed said:

OTOH I know people with quite similar needs who have gone back to petrol 'for now'.

I've also floated that idea of a small petrol engined car, think Toyota Yaris, or even a non ULEZ diesel but she loves EV cars and won't consider it. Just needs that bit more range. Also the tax on a diesel seem punitive so thats not ideal.

You can get diesels with £20 a year tax.
But seeing which way the wind blows, I'm not keen to spend proper money on a diesel right now.


If you like a certain type of car, you have to weigh up whether you like it enough to pay what it costs for one that meets your needs.
I like Maseratis, but I can't justify the cost!
It's hard to quantify the economics or finding/borrowing the money for a newer, better EV which might serve more years, have better residual and possibly no worse lifetime cost per year.

[deckster]

Rawhide said:

Thanks - I seem to remember that some Zoes can charge at 22kwh from a three phase home installation which whilst not essential is a really nice feature I could make use of. The boot looks decent sized as well.

Whilst I like Renault as a brand I've seen some horror stories about reliability which make me a bit nervous. The leaf has been faultless (completely) in this regard.

I know anecdotes aren't data, but our Zoe has been completely faultless for the 18 months & 10,000 miles we've had it.

[Merry]

Rawhide said:

Thanks - I seem to remember that some Zoes can charge at 22kwh from a three phase home installation which whilst not essential is a really nice feature I could make use of. The boot looks decent sized as well.

They can. Boot is pretty big for it's size, swallows our pushchair without an issue.

I'd be adding a coupe of grand to your budget (if you can) and looking for a Zoe ZE50. It's a good step up in terms of range from your Leaf and you'll be able to get one with a few years warranty left on it at that price range.

[Bannock]

Rawhide said:

Thanks - I seem to remember that some Zoes can charge at 22kwh from a three phase home installation which whilst not essential is a really nice feature I could make use of. The boot looks decent sized as well.

Whilst I like Renault as a brand I've seen some horror stories about reliability which make me a bit nervous. The leaf has been faultless (completely) in this regard.

My Leafs have been also. I've always assumed they share a great deal in common with the Zoe, what with Renault and Nissan being pretty much the same company these days, and for quite a long time too. Could be wrong.

[TooLateForAName]

Chris Type R said:

Rawhide said:

Thanks - I seem to remember that some Zoes can charge at 22kwh from a three phase home installation which whilst not essential is a really nice feature I could make use of. The boot looks decent sized as well.

Whilst I like Renault as a brand I've seen some horror stories about reliability which make me a bit nervous. The leaf has been faultless (completely) in this regard.

I'm not sure how useful it is, but doesn't the Leaf come with bidirectional (VTG) support ?

sort of....

The leaf uses chademo for rapid charging and is pretty much the only ev that does.
chademo as a standard can do vtg, but you need a very expensive charger on the house. Lots of newer evs do vtlv - vehicle to load - where you can plug in 220v appliances to the car. our mg does that, I know many kia/hyundai do. I've only used it to test it, but it does have some useful possibilities.

important point on chargers though - the standard across europe and uk is ccs for rapid and type 2 for ac charging. The leaf is chademo and type 1, so there is the posibility that in a few years you may start to struggle to find rapids that support it.

We've haD 2 leafs and they were good cars for our use, but I would struggle to recommend them going forward.

[Chris Type R]

TooLateForAName said:

sort of....

The leaf uses chademo for rapid charging and is pretty much the only ev that does.
chademo as a standard can do vtg, but you need a very expensive charger on the house. Lots of newer evs do vtlv - vehicle to load - where you can plug in 220v appliances to the car. our mg does that, I know many kia/hyundai do. I've only used it to test it, but it does have some useful possibilities.

important point on chargers though - the standard across europe and uk is ccs for rapid and type 2 for ac charging. The leaf is chademo and type 1, so there is the posibility that in a few years you may start to struggle to find rapids that support it.

We've haD 2 leafs and they were good cars for our use, but I would struggle to recommend them going forward.

Thanks for that