Talk to me about i3's
Discussion
I'm currently thinking about taking my first, tentative, steps into the EV world. It makes perfect sense to me. I do a lot of miles (@ 1k per month) but my jouneys tend to be quite short. My current round trip to work and back is between 30-40 miles depending on the route I take. I'm quite fortunate as we have a car for family/long trips plus I've got a couple of toys at my disposal. As we've got a drive next to the house, having a home charger is a doddle.
I'm looking for a small, relatively cheap, second hand, run around. The i3 RX appears to fit the bill. Why the RX? Because even though I have no EV experience, I'm already suffering range anxiety!
Price wise, ideally £10k max £12k. For this I know I'm looking at something that is 2017 or earlier. Quite a lot of lower mileage cars appear on PH Classifieds/AT/Ebay but quickly disappear. Higher mileage cars tend to stick around for longer; but should they be feared like ICE cars? Apart from the usual crash & repaired cars what should I be looking out for?
I know I can Google common faults, but what real life stories have the good folk of PH have?
I'm looking for a small, relatively cheap, second hand, run around. The i3 RX appears to fit the bill. Why the RX? Because even though I have no EV experience, I'm already suffering range anxiety!
Price wise, ideally £10k max £12k. For this I know I'm looking at something that is 2017 or earlier. Quite a lot of lower mileage cars appear on PH Classifieds/AT/Ebay but quickly disappear. Higher mileage cars tend to stick around for longer; but should they be feared like ICE cars? Apart from the usual crash & repaired cars what should I be looking out for?
I know I can Google common faults, but what real life stories have the good folk of PH have?
I've just bought a 2020 i3 120.
The range is perfect for our needs at around 160ish miles. The big car is now sat unused on the drive.
I think it was facelifted in 2018 so worth going for one of those if you can. 2020 onwards has carplay (but over budget).
For me it's an innovative, bespoke carbon tubbed BMW. It feels very well made. I don't find the ride hard (but appreciate that's subjective). It's quick enough but limited by it's very skinny tyres to be used in any sort of anger.
This is a great resource that tracks every i3 advertised in the uk (adjust the drop downs): https://tesla-info.com/bmw/bmw-inventory.php?sale=...
Prices are around +£1,000 over what I paid about 6 weeks ago which would suggest they've bottomed out. Maybe
The range is perfect for our needs at around 160ish miles. The big car is now sat unused on the drive.
I think it was facelifted in 2018 so worth going for one of those if you can. 2020 onwards has carplay (but over budget).
For me it's an innovative, bespoke carbon tubbed BMW. It feels very well made. I don't find the ride hard (but appreciate that's subjective). It's quick enough but limited by it's very skinny tyres to be used in any sort of anger.
This is a great resource that tracks every i3 advertised in the uk (adjust the drop downs): https://tesla-info.com/bmw/bmw-inventory.php?sale=...
Prices are around +£1,000 over what I paid about 6 weeks ago which would suggest they've bottomed out. Maybe
Have a bunch of these at work. They are generally flawless, and well regarded. I find them a bit twitchy at motorway speeds or in a cross wind, but that's probably just the tyres - which are (or were?) quite expensive as well as skinny.
Only faults have been, amusingly enough, with the Rex element. I suspect this is mostly down to the fact that the Rex hardly ever gets used. The cars get quite grumpy if you don't run the Rex every so often.
We also have the bigger battery only versions, which I think handle better.
1k miles a month isn't very much. Ours do about 24k/year. Unless you really need the "comfort" I wouldn't bother with Rex.
Only faults have been, amusingly enough, with the Rex element. I suspect this is mostly down to the fact that the Rex hardly ever gets used. The cars get quite grumpy if you don't run the Rex every so often.
We also have the bigger battery only versions, which I think handle better.
1k miles a month isn't very much. Ours do about 24k/year. Unless you really need the "comfort" I wouldn't bother with Rex.
You won't need the REx. If your usage is 30-40 miles a day, then it'll never gets used.
My wife has an Electric Mini, so range between 100 and 140 Winter to Summer. Her daily mileage is anywhere between 20 and 40 miles. It's now covered 12000 miles and never been charged away from home.
You will be fine with a 33kWh version.if you want to save on buying the 42kWh.
My wife has an Electric Mini, so range between 100 and 140 Winter to Summer. Her daily mileage is anywhere between 20 and 40 miles. It's now covered 12000 miles and never been charged away from home.
You will be fine with a 33kWh version.if you want to save on buying the 42kWh.
There have been some of really good persuasive long term i3 threads here - worth finding & reading
Here's a couple
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Pretty sure there's at least one other worth looking out for
Here's a couple
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Pretty sure there's at least one other worth looking out for
Edited by johnnyreggae on Saturday 21st October 08:03
I used to be a petrolhead. Made my own GTM Libra, did track days etc.
But I rarely buy cars. Many years ago, I worked in retail motor trade sales for 15 years. So I always buy 2nd hand and run them for 100,000 miles or so.
I bought my 2019 120Ah I3S in April. It does the job well. Nowadays, since I've retired, most of our journeys are short. So I just couldn't see the point of having the weight, complexity, tax bill, noise, or servicing requirement of the REX addition to lug around all the time.
Not all my trips are short. I have regularly done journeys where I need to charge to make it home. But most of my stuff is local, and most of my charging is at home.
The S version is supposed to be better at motorway speeds and suffer less in cross winds, and I've never found it a problem. The ride is choppy on our Oxfordshire roads, but I'm OK with that. It's a reasonably swift car.
It's a nice drive. I hesitate to call it a 'drivers' car', but it's not bad. The controls are an object lesson to VW on how it should be done. Proper switches, responsive I-Drive system, with even a row of user programmable buttons.
I bought from a dealer. I know so little about how an EV works, that I wanted the reassurance of a properly prepared car with warranty. It hasn't needed it.
Wisely Automotive specialise in the I3 and know more about it than most BMW dealers.
But I rarely buy cars. Many years ago, I worked in retail motor trade sales for 15 years. So I always buy 2nd hand and run them for 100,000 miles or so.
I bought my 2019 120Ah I3S in April. It does the job well. Nowadays, since I've retired, most of our journeys are short. So I just couldn't see the point of having the weight, complexity, tax bill, noise, or servicing requirement of the REX addition to lug around all the time.
Not all my trips are short. I have regularly done journeys where I need to charge to make it home. But most of my stuff is local, and most of my charging is at home.
The S version is supposed to be better at motorway speeds and suffer less in cross winds, and I've never found it a problem. The ride is choppy on our Oxfordshire roads, but I'm OK with that. It's a reasonably swift car.
It's a nice drive. I hesitate to call it a 'drivers' car', but it's not bad. The controls are an object lesson to VW on how it should be done. Proper switches, responsive I-Drive system, with even a row of user programmable buttons.
I bought from a dealer. I know so little about how an EV works, that I wanted the reassurance of a properly prepared car with warranty. It hasn't needed it.
Wisely Automotive specialise in the I3 and know more about it than most BMW dealers.
As above buy the full EV and not the Rex. With your ability to charge at home you'll wake up every morning to 130-170 miles of range dependent on the time of year so no need for any range anxiety, and the REX just adds weight and complexity you don't need.
They're a cracking little car. We ran one for 12 months and 15k miles back in 2019 (120ah).
They're a cracking little car. We ran one for 12 months and 15k miles back in 2019 (120ah).
I have an I3s bought 2 years ago after having an I3 from Onto. The earlier post mention issues with the REX. I scanned all the forums before buying and reckoned that two thirds of all faults were with the REX engine even though only about half of I3s have them. The REX is not inherently unreliable but suffers from being unused for long periods then hammered occasionally. The facelift cars (LCI) are better as they are newer, have the bigger battery bigger screen and LED headlamps as standard.
Brilliant car and can't bring myself to change it. I've the Rex but is rarely used, unless on a long journey. Despite the lack of use I wouldn't be without it as it's very handy when needed.
The additional mass does slow the car down a bit but not dramatically and it's still very nippy and is great around town.
Personally I think it a shame they never sold the Rex with the 120Ah battery.
The additional mass does slow the car down a bit but not dramatically and it's still very nippy and is great around town.
Personally I think it a shame they never sold the Rex with the 120Ah battery.
We’ve had a 2013 Rx, a 2017 Rx and now a 2022 pure EV as our main family cars.
First one did about 100k miles and had a few issues. Had quite a few faults but most issues were not related to the EV part.
The battery cooling failed with spectacular effect but that was sorted under warranty.
The second was pretty much faultless except my wife kept having accidents in it. Unfortunately they seem to develop a few squeaks and rattles once repaired.
If you look at a used one and it’s anything other than totally rattle free then walk away.
We hardly ever used the range extender but it does need to be periodically run and obviously it adds to the servicing costs.
The latest pure EV one has been fault free and is marginally quicker than the Rx versions.
The latest ones range is approximately 150-170miles around town depending on conditions. On the motorway at a sensible 65-70mph in eco plus that drops to about 105 miles (funny story how I found the maximum motorway range!).
Generally very good to drive and very rapid up to 50mph. I liken it to a rocket powered roller skate!
Certainly shows some of the more modern EVs how electric should be done (VW ID I’m looking at you!)
First one did about 100k miles and had a few issues. Had quite a few faults but most issues were not related to the EV part.
The battery cooling failed with spectacular effect but that was sorted under warranty.
The second was pretty much faultless except my wife kept having accidents in it. Unfortunately they seem to develop a few squeaks and rattles once repaired.
If you look at a used one and it’s anything other than totally rattle free then walk away.
We hardly ever used the range extender but it does need to be periodically run and obviously it adds to the servicing costs.
The latest pure EV one has been fault free and is marginally quicker than the Rx versions.
The latest ones range is approximately 150-170miles around town depending on conditions. On the motorway at a sensible 65-70mph in eco plus that drops to about 105 miles (funny story how I found the maximum motorway range!).
Generally very good to drive and very rapid up to 50mph. I liken it to a rocket powered roller skate!
Certainly shows some of the more modern EVs how electric should be done (VW ID I’m looking at you!)
Edited by Nick928 on Saturday 21st October 15:39
Nick928 said:
We’ve had a 2013 Rx, a 2017 Rx and now a 2022 pure EV as our main family cars.
First one did about 100k miles and had a few issues. Had quite a few faults but most issues were not related to the EV part.
The battery cooling failed with spectacular effect but that was sorted under warranty.
The second was pretty much faultless except my wife kept having accidents in it. Unfortunately they seem to develop a few squeaks and rattles once repaired.
If you look at a used one and it’s anything other than totally rattle free then walk away.
We hardly ever used the range extender but it does need to be periodically run and obviously it adds to the servicing costs.
The latest pure EV one has been fault free and is marginally quicker than the Rx versions.
The latest ones range is approximately 150-170miles around town depending on conditions. On the motorway at a sensible 65-70mph in eco plus that drops to about 105 miles (funny story how I found the maximum motorway range!).
Generally very good to drive and very rapid up to 50mph. I liken it to a rocket powered roller skate!
Certainly shows some of the more modern EVs how electric should be done (VW ID I’m looking at you!)
Odd your range drops that much on the motorway. In the summer we can just do Winchester and back (150 miles on mainly dual carriageway and motorway) at 75 in Comfort on the way and Eco on return.First one did about 100k miles and had a few issues. Had quite a few faults but most issues were not related to the EV part.
The battery cooling failed with spectacular effect but that was sorted under warranty.
The second was pretty much faultless except my wife kept having accidents in it. Unfortunately they seem to develop a few squeaks and rattles once repaired.
If you look at a used one and it’s anything other than totally rattle free then walk away.
We hardly ever used the range extender but it does need to be periodically run and obviously it adds to the servicing costs.
The latest pure EV one has been fault free and is marginally quicker than the Rx versions.
The latest ones range is approximately 150-170miles around town depending on conditions. On the motorway at a sensible 65-70mph in eco plus that drops to about 105 miles (funny story how I found the maximum motorway range!).
Generally very good to drive and very rapid up to 50mph. I liken it to a rocket powered roller skate!
Certainly shows some of the more modern EVs how electric should be done (VW ID I’m looking at you!)
Edited by Nick928 on Saturday 21st October 15:39
Our average consumption over 20,000 miles (mainly local stuff) is 4.4 m per kWh which is pretty impressive compared to most EVs. Just had new rear tyres and otherwise nothing but routine servicing (not much but expensive at dealer).
In comfort setting (last twenty in eco pro as it was looking touch and go) at a constant 70mph in warmish weather it did 107 miles from Bristol to Plymouth with about ten miles remaining (showed 170 miles range at start).
Fully recharged overnight with the same 170 mile expected range showing I did the return trip but in eco plus all the way and at a slightly slower 65mph and I rolled onto the driveway 107 miles later on 0 miles remaining.
Stressful doesn’t begin to cover it!
Unfortunately motorway use will use an excessive amount of energy regardless of the vehicle, that’s one of the issues with an EV.
I also run a VW ID for work and that suffers the same issues although not quite such a pronounced drop on the motorway.
I’ve had ten years and over 200,000 miles experience of driving EVs so I’m getting pretty good at eeking out range and much over 120 miles at motorway speeds I sn’t an option in even the newest i3s.
Local around town speeds and it’ll comfortably achieve 150 miles.
My VW ID will start the day at 250 miles range, motorway use and it runs out at about 200, around town it comfortably exceeds 250 miles.
Fully recharged overnight with the same 170 mile expected range showing I did the return trip but in eco plus all the way and at a slightly slower 65mph and I rolled onto the driveway 107 miles later on 0 miles remaining.
Stressful doesn’t begin to cover it!
Unfortunately motorway use will use an excessive amount of energy regardless of the vehicle, that’s one of the issues with an EV.
I also run a VW ID for work and that suffers the same issues although not quite such a pronounced drop on the motorway.
I’ve had ten years and over 200,000 miles experience of driving EVs so I’m getting pretty good at eeking out range and much over 120 miles at motorway speeds I sn’t an option in even the newest i3s.
Local around town speeds and it’ll comfortably achieve 150 miles.
My VW ID will start the day at 250 miles range, motorway use and it runs out at about 200, around town it comfortably exceeds 250 miles.
Edited by Nick928 on Saturday 21st October 16:21
I looked at some old, bargain i3's a little while back.
Age takes its toll on the batteries it seems.
A lot of those for sale seem to be when owners realise the range is starting to drop.
You may get better value by paying a bit more for newer and getting more years out of it?
Or maybe the cheapest route into EVs is a Leaf.
Guessing your costs over say 3 years is a problem, who can call the market these days?
The REx is frustrating because the tank is comically small, so isn't a great solution for longer distances.
I've grown to quite like the 'odd' styling, and think it's quite nice to drive, you do feel crosswinds but not in a worrying way compared to some things I've driven.
Age takes its toll on the batteries it seems.
A lot of those for sale seem to be when owners realise the range is starting to drop.
You may get better value by paying a bit more for newer and getting more years out of it?
Or maybe the cheapest route into EVs is a Leaf.
Guessing your costs over say 3 years is a problem, who can call the market these days?
The REx is frustrating because the tank is comically small, so isn't a great solution for longer distances.
I've grown to quite like the 'odd' styling, and think it's quite nice to drive, you do feel crosswinds but not in a worrying way compared to some things I've driven.
OutInTheShed said:
I looked at some old, bargain i3's a little while back.
Age takes its toll on the batteries it seems.
A lot of those for sale seem to be when owners realise the range is starting to drop.
Can you substantiate that? Any examples? Age takes its toll on the batteries it seems.
A lot of those for sale seem to be when owners realise the range is starting to drop.
OutInTheShed said:
Or maybe the cheapest route into EVs is a Leaf.
Early Leaf battery management was woeful, and your comments about battery degradation may well apply to early Leafs.Paul Drawmer said:
OutInTheShed said:
I looked at some old, bargain i3's a little while back.
Age takes its toll on the batteries it seems.
A lot of those for sale seem to be when owners realise the range is starting to drop.
Can you substantiate that? Any examples? Age takes its toll on the batteries it seems.
A lot of those for sale seem to be when owners realise the range is starting to drop.
OutInTheShed said:
Or maybe the cheapest route into EVs is a Leaf.
Early Leaf battery management was woeful, and your comments about battery degradation may well apply to early Leafs.There's a lot on the net about i3's, lots of owners, lots of experience.
BMW did a lot of software tweaking with these cars, they seem to adjust the voltage parameters to work the battery harder, in order to give the driver the Ah required. You can access a certain amount of this stuff on screen fairly easily.
It seems fairly plain that the older cars are losing capacity significantly, but we don't know how that will get worse as these things become, 10, 11... years old.
The used market is bonkers and keeps changing, but it seemed to me the money/depreciation/risk questions were starting to make a 5 year old example with 3 years of battery warranty look better than anything older.
The early leaves may be so cheap you can write them off after a couple of years intense use, a mate of mine bought one and saved about £2k a year in petrol, so he doesn't need to care what it's worth 2 and a half years later. A £10k car is a different proposition.
Personally, our needs have changed and the use-case for an i3 has mostly gone away for now, runabout purchase not on the horizon for us.
The cheap oprion which people are not talking about is the Ampera. Just enough battery to commute, but a small enough battery that the engine gets some use. A fuel tank which is big enough to get you to somewhere beyond York. Now getting pretty cheap and if the electic range drops by half, it's still a PHEV runabout so should keep some function and value for several years. I've never driven one.
OutInTheShed said:
You really need to go out and look at a few older ones for sale, look at the indicated range, take a decent test drive.
There's a lot on the net about i3's, lots of owners, lots of experience.
BMW did a lot of software tweaking with these cars, they seem to adjust the voltage parameters to work the battery harder, in order to give the driver the Ah required. You can access a certain amount of this stuff on screen fairly easily.
It seems fairly plain that the older cars are losing capacity significantly, but we don't know how that will get worse as these things become, 10, 11... years old.
The used market is bonkers and keeps changing, but it seemed to me the money/depreciation/risk questions were starting to make a 5 year old example with 3 years of battery warranty look better than anything older.
The early leaves may be so cheap you can write them off after a couple of years intense use, a mate of mine bought one and saved about £2k a year in petrol, so he doesn't need to care what it's worth 2 and a half years later. A £10k car is a different proposition.
Personally, our needs have changed and the use-case for an i3 has mostly gone away for now, runabout purchase not on the horizon for us.
The cheap oprion which people are not talking about is the Ampera. Just enough battery to commute, but a small enough battery that the engine gets some use. A fuel tank which is big enough to get you to somewhere beyond York. Now getting pretty cheap and if the electic range drops by half, it's still a PHEV runabout so should keep some function and value for several years. I've never driven one.
I have two neighbours within a 100metres or so who are i3 owners. Both cars are 2014 reg. One is a good friend and we were at an Trafalgar event together last evening and i asked her how her's was going. No issues whatsoever and the range has reduced but not significantly. She's owned the car for 5 years. The guy up the road has had a similar experience.There's a lot on the net about i3's, lots of owners, lots of experience.
BMW did a lot of software tweaking with these cars, they seem to adjust the voltage parameters to work the battery harder, in order to give the driver the Ah required. You can access a certain amount of this stuff on screen fairly easily.
It seems fairly plain that the older cars are losing capacity significantly, but we don't know how that will get worse as these things become, 10, 11... years old.
The used market is bonkers and keeps changing, but it seemed to me the money/depreciation/risk questions were starting to make a 5 year old example with 3 years of battery warranty look better than anything older.
The early leaves may be so cheap you can write them off after a couple of years intense use, a mate of mine bought one and saved about £2k a year in petrol, so he doesn't need to care what it's worth 2 and a half years later. A £10k car is a different proposition.
Personally, our needs have changed and the use-case for an i3 has mostly gone away for now, runabout purchase not on the horizon for us.
The cheap oprion which people are not talking about is the Ampera. Just enough battery to commute, but a small enough battery that the engine gets some use. A fuel tank which is big enough to get you to somewhere beyond York. Now getting pretty cheap and if the electic range drops by half, it's still a PHEV runabout so should keep some function and value for several years. I've never driven one.
Mine is an i3S which I've had for about 6months. 2020 model. I used an OBD reader to check it out. Mine is showing no battery degradation as of yet.
For me it's really cheap motoring and a fun car to drive. Mostly journeys under 25km each way but have done one trip of 270km to see friends.
Being Carbon Fibre and with a quirky design i can see the i3 as being like the Audi A2
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