World's largest offshore windfarm starts generating
Discussion
In a bit of a counter to the flurry of EV negativity, great milestone passed yesterday with Dogger Bank; what will be the world's largest wind farm. It started generating power yesterday following the first turbine being hooked up.
https://doggerbank.com/news/
The scale of this project plus others in the near pipeline shows just how committed the UK is to a transition away from fossil fuels with the aim of a significant improvement to energy security and economic benefit. This is the real reason for the need to push the population away from fossil fuel reliance for the car fleet in the UK - it will be economically damaging to remain wedded to petrol and Diesel.
https://doggerbank.com/news/
The scale of this project plus others in the near pipeline shows just how committed the UK is to a transition away from fossil fuels with the aim of a significant improvement to energy security and economic benefit. This is the real reason for the need to push the population away from fossil fuel reliance for the car fleet in the UK - it will be economically damaging to remain wedded to petrol and Diesel.
Engineering projects like this have always fascinated me but I just can't wrap my head around the net zero thing.
It's all good and well saying "Each rotation of the 107m long blades on Dogger Bank’s first operational turbine can produce enough clean energy to power an average British home for two days."
Now consider the factories used to manufacture the parts, the sub components like the nuts and bolts, alot of those will be transported both nationally and internationally, the ships used to install them etc.
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation?
It's all good and well saying "Each rotation of the 107m long blades on Dogger Bank’s first operational turbine can produce enough clean energy to power an average British home for two days."
Now consider the factories used to manufacture the parts, the sub components like the nuts and bolts, alot of those will be transported both nationally and internationally, the ships used to install them etc.
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation?
DaveH23 said:
Engineering projects like this have always fascinated me but I just can't wrap my head around the net zero thing.
It's all good and well saying "Each rotation of the 107m long blades on Dogger Bank’s first operational turbine can produce enough clean energy to power an average British home for two days."
Now consider the factories used to manufacture the parts, the sub components like the nuts and bolts, alot of those will be transported both nationally and internationally, the ships used to install them etc.
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation?
Have a Google, but it isn't very long.It's all good and well saying "Each rotation of the 107m long blades on Dogger Bank’s first operational turbine can produce enough clean energy to power an average British home for two days."
Now consider the factories used to manufacture the parts, the sub components like the nuts and bolts, alot of those will be transported both nationally and internationally, the ships used to install them etc.
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation?
DaveH23 said:
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation
To be fair it’s a bit like someone 120 years ago saying cars are pointless because they had to be built using parts that were shipped by stagecoach and steam train
DaveH23 said:
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation?
As you might expect, the lifetime carbon footprint of wind power is heavily scrutinised and many many studies have been carried out to get an accurate assessment.The good news is that offshore wind has an extremely low carbon intensity, the lowest of all electricity sources.
A life cycle value of 10 g/kWh is a reasonably starting point, although some companies are claiming 6 g/kWh.
To put that into perspective, for charging an EV, it adds just over 1 g/km to the car's lifetime footprint for the usage phase.
Compare that to 275 g/km lifetime footprint for a typical petrol ICE car and hopefully it should become obvious why powering cars from wind is a slam dunk environmentally.
It means that the only meaningful component of an EV (charged 100% from wind) that has an impact on the environment is the production of the car, and of course, its battery.
If the battery can be made using renewable electricity sources and recycled materials from previous batteries, then the car's entire lifetime footprint, including 200,000 km worth of charging, should settle below 50 g/km.
We are not there yet, more like 100 g/km right now, but that trajectory for a 2050 EV is achievable.
That puts the life cycle footprint at 10 tons of CO2.
Quite a bit better than the c.50 tons of CO2 that an ICE puts out during its life.
GT9 said:
DaveH23 said:
How long would it take for these to even reverse the impact of the fossil fuels used to get them up and running from initial plans through to installation?
As you might expect, the lifetime carbon footprint of wind power is heavily scrutinised and many many studies have been carried out to get an accurate assessment.The good news is that offshore wind has an extremely low carbon intensity, the lowest of all electricity sources.
A life cycle value of 10 g/kWh is a reasonably starting point, although some companies are claiming 6 g/kWh.
To put that into perspective, for charging an EV, it adds just over 1 g/km to the car's lifetime footprint for the usage phase.
Compare that to 275 g/km lifetime footprint for a typical petrol ICE car and hopefully it should become obvious why powering cars from wind is a slam dunk environmentally.
It means that the only meaningful component of an EV (charged 100% from wind) that has an impact on the environment is the production of the car, and of course, its battery.
If the battery can be made using renewable electricity sources and recycled materials from previous batteries, then the car's entire lifetime footprint, including 200,000 km worth of charging, should settle below 50 g/km.
We are not there yet, more like 100 g/km right now, but that trajectory for a 2050 EV is achievable.
That puts the life cycle footprint at 10 tons of CO2.
Quite a bit better than the c.50 tons of CO2 that an ICE puts out during its life.
Fav fact (and I have a closeness to this project) is these turbines are already outdated - yet each have a swept area of 4.5 football pitches
Reasonable coverage here :
https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2023-10-10/worl...
Reasonable coverage here :
https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2023-10-10/worl...
Terminator X said:
Are wind farms still subsidized by the tax payer?
TX.
YawnTX.
Do they use taxpayer to assure the economics, and as a result avoid peaks and trough of market prices of electricity on an hourly basis by the surety…..yes?
Would selling at market rates cost more to the end user without the process ?
Terminator X said:
Are wind farms still subsidized by the tax payer?
TX.
They have Contracts for Difference with indexed strike prices. If the market price is below the strike price, they recieve the difference from a levy on electricity suppliers. And if the market price is higher than the strike price they have to pay difference to suppliers instead.TX.
For most of the past 2 years, they have been in net repayment due to high market prices. In other words electricity costs have been lower than they otherwise would be, to the tune of about £600 million.
There are projects under construction right now which only partially rely on CfDs with the rest of their energy sold through commercial PPAs and on merchant terms.
https://community.ionanalytics.com/how-moray-wests...
And there are now completed projects that are subsidy free.
https://windpowernl.com/2023/09/29/dutch-king-offi...
Do wind farms (renewables) ever manage to produce their installed capacity? On paper we should easily be energy self sufficient but that’s not the reality.
As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
Edited by Essarell on Thursday 12th October 03:46
Essarell said:
Do wind farms (renewables) ever manage to produce their installed capacity? On paper we should easily be energy self sufficient but that’s not the reality.
As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
It’s particularly still at the moment - 10th Jan this year we were running at 21.69GW from wind alone for a 30min period. Clearly you need excessive capacity to arrive at an average point which gives sufficient supply. This is when those interconnects come in handy providing us with net income. It’s quite common for net flow to be out of the UK to our neighbours. As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
Edited by Essarell on Thursday 12th October 03:46
plfrench said:
Essarell said:
Do wind farms (renewables) ever manage to produce their installed capacity? On paper we should easily be energy self sufficient but that’s not the reality.
As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
It’s particularly still at the moment - 10th Jan this year we were running at 21.69GW from wind alone for a 30min period. Clearly you need excessive capacity to arrive at an average point which gives sufficient supply. This is when those interconnects come in handy providing us with net income. It’s quite common for net flow to be out of the UK to our neighbours. As an example we’re receiving more energy via the interconnection to France (2.8Gw) than we are generating from circa 12000 UK based wind turbines (2.2Gw), looks like it’s the French that are helping to keep prices down?
Currently (3:00am) demand is low (22Gw) but the spot price is £130 Mwh even though we have circa 45Gw of installed renewable capacity with 4.5 Gw of Nuclear available.
It looks like more wind just adds more unpredictability to the grid therefore the consumer pays a higher price for electricity.
That can’t be good for heavy users like manufacturing, they have a choice, expensive energy here in Europe or relocate to other parts of the world where electricity is far cheaper and the prices much less volatile.
Edited by Essarell on Thursday 12th October 03:46
Even since I posted at 3am wind production has dropped by 50%. I can’t explain why so many companies are happy to invest in renewables, they must know something I don’t but I can only comment on what I see, wind doesn’t work.
Quick check of the weather and it’s looking like a high pressure front moving in for the next week or so, that’s wind out of the equation, I notice we’ve even got the coal spinning away, in fact we’re now getting more power from Coal than wind. 12000 wind turbines, a third of which are offshore and apparently more reliable are being outperformed by Coal. Still, as they say renewables will be better next year etc
I was just balancing out the low example with a high one (30min window as that’s how it’s recorded). It’s all about the averages though - over the last 12month period, over 30% of total UK electricity generation came from wind. That’s pretty useful and with the amount of offshore wind farm development in the pipeline that will only increase over the coming years and decades.
https://renewables-map.robinhawkes.com/#4/54.53/-3...
looking forward to seeing the output appear on the map. how anyone can be negative about this baffles me.
by my reckoning, there should be a turbine completed every 4 days or so to get the whole farm online in 2.5 years(ish). don't know if the power output will follow this, or they'll be connected in groups. the map in the link shows just how windy it is across the dogger bank.
looking forward to seeing the output appear on the map. how anyone can be negative about this baffles me.
by my reckoning, there should be a turbine completed every 4 days or so to get the whole farm online in 2.5 years(ish). don't know if the power output will follow this, or they'll be connected in groups. the map in the link shows just how windy it is across the dogger bank.
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