Do I NEED wall box?
Discussion
Getting on just fine with our new to us ID3.
Car does 52 miles a day on weekdays and less on weekends. Very rarely exceeds this.
Currently charging using the 3 pin granny charger.
The car can schedule charging times to coincide with cheap EV rate and still go back up to the recommended 80% each night.
I've felt the plug after 6 hours of charging and it is, if you are looking for it, maybe a tiny bit warm. Barely perceptible, if it is at all.
There is some debate as to how reliable the car's scheduling is and that might mean I need a wall box for that reason but, is there any other reason I need a wall box, or do I get another £1000 to go in the Elise fund?
Thanks
Car does 52 miles a day on weekdays and less on weekends. Very rarely exceeds this.
Currently charging using the 3 pin granny charger.
The car can schedule charging times to coincide with cheap EV rate and still go back up to the recommended 80% each night.
I've felt the plug after 6 hours of charging and it is, if you are looking for it, maybe a tiny bit warm. Barely perceptible, if it is at all.
There is some debate as to how reliable the car's scheduling is and that might mean I need a wall box for that reason but, is there any other reason I need a wall box, or do I get another £1000 to go in the Elise fund?
Thanks
Wouldn't bother me.
The plug/cable of anything drawing 10amps continuously will eventually start to feel detectably a little warmer than ambient temp.
Personally I would health check the terminals in the sockets on the ring your using and also back at the main board for that circuit, they often become slightly loose over time and you ideally want to ensure they're all firmly tightened if drawing continuous current.
The plug/cable of anything drawing 10amps continuously will eventually start to feel detectably a little warmer than ambient temp.
Personally I would health check the terminals in the sockets on the ring your using and also back at the main board for that circuit, they often become slightly loose over time and you ideally want to ensure they're all firmly tightened if drawing continuous current.
I’ve had an electric car for about 2 years now. When I first got the car I immediately had a 7Kwh Podpoint installed at the house. I was doing a shorter distance then and would typically charge once a week, over night and then it was fine for the week. If I had done a big journey and needed to get somewhere in a hurry it wasn’t practical and I’d probably put ~10% in and head out to a rapid charger nearby.
We moved house a year ago and I bawked at how much the cost of a charger had gone up. I spent months just using the 3pin plug in the garage whilst I shopped around. In the end I realised that for the amount it would cost I wouldn’t really see the benefit. Most nights it’s parked on the drive / garage and it really isn’t any hassle to just plug it in most nights instead of once a week, therefore keeping it topped up. I still occasionally use a public charger if I need a quick turnaround.
We moved house a year ago and I bawked at how much the cost of a charger had gone up. I spent months just using the 3pin plug in the garage whilst I shopped around. In the end I realised that for the amount it would cost I wouldn’t really see the benefit. Most nights it’s parked on the drive / garage and it really isn’t any hassle to just plug it in most nights instead of once a week, therefore keeping it topped up. I still occasionally use a public charger if I need a quick turnaround.
Just fitted an outside socket, for wife’s incoming PHEV.
External socket straight through the wall from a 13amp socket on lightly used ring main, in my case
PHEV only has 40 mile range, so should be fine in the 5 hour / 8p a minute window!
Will also time the washer/drier/dishwasher for that period. Which should offset the slightly higher day rate ..
Screwfix job. The latch is easier to use regularly than others they sell :-
External socket straight through the wall from a 13amp socket on lightly used ring main, in my case
PHEV only has 40 mile range, so should be fine in the 5 hour / 8p a minute window!
Will also time the washer/drier/dishwasher for that period. Which should offset the slightly higher day rate ..
Screwfix job. The latch is easier to use regularly than others they sell :-
Edited by James6112 on Thursday 31st August 09:32
We've done 1000 miles in the last month in our Zoe, all charging done through a 3 pin screwfix charger bar 1 top up at a local charger to check that it worked ok. In NI so really limited in choice of electric suppliers and none of them are doing great deals on EV charge tariffs, we are limited to 3 hours a night of cheaper rates (18p/kwh) but then pay more for our daytime rate so it's hard to justify spending £1000+ for a wall box to take advantage of the cheap rate.
I plug the car in when the battery gets to about 50% and it's full the next morning, do that a couple of times a week if needed, I installed an outside socket so that I won't need to keep a window partially open during the winter, think the bits cost me about £15?
I plug the car in when the battery gets to about 50% and it's full the next morning, do that a couple of times a week if needed, I installed an outside socket so that I won't need to keep a window partially open during the winter, think the bits cost me about £15?
The only issue is that normal domestic wiring may not have been installed with a view to drawing 10amp constantly for 4-6 hours. I think generally the expectation is that a diverse load is lots of short bursts, hence why bigger things such as cookers have their own rings as they draw a lot of current and can be on for extended periods.
The socket I have used for EV charging is part of a small ring in the garage which includes washing machine and tumble dryer, so using them while charging was a "no-no".
Might be worth checking to see what ring the EV charging socket is on? If on a general ring then maybe consider having it put on to it's own?
The plug part of the EVSE probably has heat detection and cut-out built into it, so in theory ought to disconnect before anything catches fire, so this is why extension leads are discouraged as they won't have this. I would probably put a smoke alarm in close proximity to the socket just to be safe.
The socket I have used for EV charging is part of a small ring in the garage which includes washing machine and tumble dryer, so using them while charging was a "no-no".
Might be worth checking to see what ring the EV charging socket is on? If on a general ring then maybe consider having it put on to it's own?
The plug part of the EVSE probably has heat detection and cut-out built into it, so in theory ought to disconnect before anything catches fire, so this is why extension leads are discouraged as they won't have this. I would probably put a smoke alarm in close proximity to the socket just to be safe.
Worth noting that a British ring is typically specified for 32amps (16 down each 2.5mm leg) with a fair safety margin above that, so well above anything an EV is going to draw from a three-pin plug on its own. That's assuming everything is healthy, of course.
There're two things which are likely to be an issue, both of which are easy to test/fix:
1) There is no way to tell in general use if one leg of the ring is broken, which will obviously halve your available capacity.
2) Cheap sockets are often a bit marginal at 13amps.
If I was going to run an EV off a standard 13amp plug I'd take the socket off, check continuity around the ring on all three conductors (obviously switch off the ring at the consumer unit first!), then replace the socket with a good quality brand new one. Having done that, I'd have no problem using such a setup indefinitely as long as it's on a ring which doesn't contain lots of other high-current devices which are likely to be used at the same time.
ETA: However if your garage is on a 2.5mm spur (which many are), I probably wouldn't risk it.
There're two things which are likely to be an issue, both of which are easy to test/fix:
1) There is no way to tell in general use if one leg of the ring is broken, which will obviously halve your available capacity.
2) Cheap sockets are often a bit marginal at 13amps.
If I was going to run an EV off a standard 13amp plug I'd take the socket off, check continuity around the ring on all three conductors (obviously switch off the ring at the consumer unit first!), then replace the socket with a good quality brand new one. Having done that, I'd have no problem using such a setup indefinitely as long as it's on a ring which doesn't contain lots of other high-current devices which are likely to be used at the same time.
ETA: However if your garage is on a 2.5mm spur (which many are), I probably wouldn't risk it.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 31st August 10:47
Knock_knock said:
The only issue is that normal domestic wiring may not have been installed with a view to drawing 10amp constantly for 4-6 hours. I think generally the expectation is that a diverse load is lots of short bursts, hence why bigger things such as cookers have their own rings as they draw a lot of current and can be on for extended periods.
The socket I have used for EV charging is part of a small ring in the garage which includes washing machine and tumble dryer, so using them while charging was a "no-no".
Might be worth checking to see what ring the EV charging socket is on? If on a general ring then maybe consider having it put on to it's own?
The plug part of the EVSE probably has heat detection and cut-out built into it, so in theory ought to disconnect before anything catches fire, so this is why extension leads are discouraged as they won't have this. I would probably put a smoke alarm in close proximity to the socket just to be safe.
I don't see why you can't use the charger and the washer and dryer at the same time. The RFC has to be 32amp so all three are within that.The socket I have used for EV charging is part of a small ring in the garage which includes washing machine and tumble dryer, so using them while charging was a "no-no".
Might be worth checking to see what ring the EV charging socket is on? If on a general ring then maybe consider having it put on to it's own?
The plug part of the EVSE probably has heat detection and cut-out built into it, so in theory ought to disconnect before anything catches fire, so this is why extension leads are discouraged as they won't have this. I would probably put a smoke alarm in close proximity to the socket just to be safe.
The important thing to do, as I said above, is to health check the circuit you're going to be drawing continuous load from.
ETA: A poor termination along a RFC is one of the most common reasons for excessive heat build up across the terminals along the circuit, potentially leading to fire if a high continuous load is applied for several hours. The circuit will work absolutely perfectly with one or more loose terminations, or even a single totally failed termination - which would still work fine but as the ring is broken, the circuit would be down rated in terms of capacity.
Twice I have bought nearly new houses and when working around to replace the tatty cheap sockets and switches with something smarter, I have found as I pulled the original sockets sometimes the copper would slip straight out of the terminal. This is not necessarily due to cowboy installers.. It's just a fact that copper compresses over time and relaxes, loosening the original torqued terminal.
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 31st August 11:36
TheDeuce said:
I don't see why you can't use the charger and the washer and dryer at the same time. The RFC has to be 32amp so all three are within that.
I seem to recall that on the couple of occasions when all three were used it had a tendency to trip the circuit when the dryer started. Inrush maybe? The dryer was disposed of a year or so later, so I can't recreate. It was one of those Whirlpool cheap ones so I'm probably just lucky it didn't combust 
Knock_knock said:
TheDeuce said:
I don't see why you can't use the charger and the washer and dryer at the same time. The RFC has to be 32amp so all three are within that.
I seem to recall that on the couple of occasions when all three were used it had a tendency to trip the circuit when the dryer started. Inrush maybe? The dryer was disposed of a year or so later, so I can't recreate. It was one of those Whirlpool cheap ones so I'm probably just lucky it didn't combust We switched to a heat pump dryer when electricity prices went sky high and also because our old one didn't have a timer function so we couldn't shift it to run during cheap hours. The heat pump model uses a LOT less power overall. Probably paid for itself in the last two years so I'm a happy customer
TheDeuce said:
We switched to a heat pump dryer when electricity prices went sky high and also because our old one didn't have a timer function so we couldn't shift it to run during cheap hours. The heat pump model uses a LOT less power overall. Probably paid for itself in the last two years so I'm a happy customer
Snap!Only thing I'd mention is that in colder weather the range will drop. So might need longer to charge overnight, guess not an issue as long as still fits in with the time you've got to charge it overnight. At times have seen a drop of about 20% in range in my ID3 during the colder days.
I have had 2 houses now where we have extensively used granny chargers for our 2 PHEV vehicles.
For both houses the downstairs ring final did everything downstairs including the kitchen sockets. I was cautious at first but we have not had any issue with using a single granny charger and using appliances at the same time.
For both houses we have a smart meter with a in home display and I can readily see that the total house real time power consumption is well below the 7kW capacity of a 32Amp ring final.
Sometimes we use 2 granny chargers at the same time.
For both houses the downstairs ring final did everything downstairs including the kitchen sockets. I was cautious at first but we have not had any issue with using a single granny charger and using appliances at the same time.
For both houses we have a smart meter with a in home display and I can readily see that the total house real time power consumption is well below the 7kW capacity of a 32Amp ring final.
Sometimes we use 2 granny chargers at the same time.
Thanks for all the replies. Looks like garage has its own ring, doesn't it? Looks like a 20amp circuit breaker when the others are 6.
Winter a good point - might not be able to completely replace a commute in 6 hours. But will doo almost all of one. Can top back up on the weekend when it will do lower mileage. Worst case is it needs a small amount of expensive juice from time to time.
So I'll try it for a winter and see how we get on.
Winter a good point - might not be able to completely replace a commute in 6 hours. But will doo almost all of one. Can top back up on the weekend when it will do lower mileage. Worst case is it needs a small amount of expensive juice from time to time.
So I'll try it for a winter and see how we get on.
Duke Caboom said:
Getting on just fine with our new to us ID3.
Currently charging using the 3 pin granny charger.
The car can schedule charging times to coincide with cheap EV rate and still go back up to the recommended 80% each night.
Please can you give some details on your cheap EV rate?Currently charging using the 3 pin granny charger.
The car can schedule charging times to coincide with cheap EV rate and still go back up to the recommended 80% each night.
If you are using a 13Amp granny charger then the electricity consumption is lumped in with the general house load. In my previous house I had a great 2 year fix so the kWh were really low cost day and night but in this new house I was on Economy 7 and I did charge overnight but it was often inconvenient and the daytime electricity change for the kitchen appliances was exorbitant. It was better to just have a standard tariff so our lives were not so disrupted.
What I want is an electricity tariff were it is cheap overnight and not too expensive during the day.
Actual said:
Please can you give some details on your cheap EV rate?
If you are using a 13Amp granny charger then the electricity consumption is lumped in with the general house load. In my previous house I had a great 2 year fix so the kWh were really low cost day and night but in this new house I was on Economy 7 and I did charge overnight but it was often inconvenient and the daytime electricity change for the kitchen appliances was exorbitant. It was better to just have a standard tariff so our lives were not so disrupted.
What I want is an electricity tariff were it is cheap overnight and not too expensive during the day.
I'm no expert bit Octopus Intelligent is 7.5p per kwh, I think I think. If you are using a 13Amp granny charger then the electricity consumption is lumped in with the general house load. In my previous house I had a great 2 year fix so the kWh were really low cost day and night but in this new house I was on Economy 7 and I did charge overnight but it was often inconvenient and the daytime electricity change for the kitchen appliances was exorbitant. It was better to just have a standard tariff so our lives were not so disrupted.
What I want is an electricity tariff were it is cheap overnight and not too expensive during the day.
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