EVs for low mileage non- business user - economics

[clockworks]

Now that the price of some secondhand EVs is reaching parity with the ICE equivalent, I'm considering getting one.

However, I run 2 cars, and do between 3k and 4k miles a year in each, and I think I'll still be worse off unless I replace both petrol cars with one EV.
One car is averaging 47mpg, the other 53mpg. Across the 2 cars, that's 13.6p per mile at today's local petrol price. Both cars are basic rate RFL, and are relatively cheap to service - £180 minor, £260 major service. Insurance is less than £250 each. One year and 2 years old, so no MOTs yet, and the 2 year old has 5 years warranty left.

Currently use around 5700kwh per year, mostly during the day. Not much scope to save on household electricity by switching to a dual rate tariff. EV charging for my mileage would add about 1700kwh per year, so still marginal whether switching would be worth it?

Charging at home at the standard rate looks like it would cost about 7p a mile, saving me 6.5p a mile, about £450 a year if all my mileage was electric. I'd save on RFL, until that changes next year? I'd save a little on servicing, but looks like EVs are a lot more to insure now?

There's the up-front "cost to change", and the cost of getting a charger installed unless I just run a 13A extension lead from the garage.

It really doesn't seem to make sense to go electric until I'm forced to.

[autumnsum]

OK pal, well EVs are not for you, thanks for posting, bye.

[Nomme de Plum]

I relatively recently acquired a BMW i3S (£18K) and installed an Ohme Home Pro intelligent charger. The charger and install was £1K.

My night rate tariff is 7.5p for the whole house so can be used for car charging and other heavy usage stuff like washing and drying. I might even install a couple of storage heaters if i can find some used ones.

I did not really buy the EV for economic reasons I bought it as it is superior to an ICE. I like the quiteness and rapid acceleration at normal driving speeds. Mine only weighs 1400kg so is quite nimble too and as this tis PH I'm looking at some point to modify the suspension for improved handling.

My insurance premium went down when I swopped out from my ICE.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 21st August 10:23

[clockworks]

autumnsum said:

OK pal, well EVs are not for you, thanks for posting, bye.

I'm not saying no, I'm wondering if I'm missing something, hence the question marks in my post. Can running an EV currently make financial sense for the average low mileage private user?

[Nomme de Plum]

clockworks said:

autumnsum said:

OK pal, well EVs are not for you, thanks for posting, bye.

I'm not saying no, I'm wondering if I'm missing something, hence the question marks in my post. Can running an EV currently make financial sense for the average low mileage private user?

Car ownership makes little sense when doing limited miles, but it is a convenience.

I do not see the logic of running two cars if you really only need one. That does not add up to me. If you have two cars for the convenience of two persons how will only having one work? If you can happily manage with one why not just sell one of your ICEs and invest the cash and running cost savings until you next need to change the other one.

I swopped out because the short journeys I now undertake were not suited to the diesel hybrid and I needed to take the car for a blast just to clear out the DPF filter, which was utterly pointless. I could have replaced it with a petrol car but the BEV is just so much nicer to be in.

[g40steve]

Nomme de Plum said:

I relatively recently acquired a BMW i3S (£18K) and installed an Ohme Home Pro intelligent charger. The charger and install was £1K.

My insurance premium went down when I swopped out from my ICE.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 21st August 10:23

How you finding the i3, currently researching them myself.

[Nomme de Plum]

g40steve said:

Nomme de Plum said:

I relatively recently acquired a BMW i3S (£18K) and installed an Ohme Home Pro intelligent charger. The charger and install was £1K.

My insurance premium went down when I swopped out from my ICE.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 21st August 10:23

How you finding the i3, currently researching them myself.

I have the i3s and it's a hoot to drive. Suspension is a bit jiggly but it is as nippy as hell. I've owned a few bonkers cars but this just gives me a huge smile every time i drive it.

It is light for an EV at 1,400kg and It is so quiet too.

Most of my motoring is local so maybe 10/20km journeys. The odd 100km so it works really well and i charge at home.

[clockworks]

Nomme de Plum said:

Car ownership makes little sense when doing limited miles, but it is a convenience.

I do not see the logic of running two cars if you really only need one. That does not add up to me. If you have two cars for the convenience of two persons how will only having one work? If you can happily manage with one why not just sell one of your ICEs and invest the cash and running cost savings until you next need to change the other one.

I swopped out because the short journeys I now undertake were not suited to the diesel hybrid and I needed to take the car for a blast just to clear out the DPF filter, which was utterly pointless. I could have replaced it with a petrol car but the BEV is just so much nicer to be in.

One car for business use (big enough to collect and deliver grandfather clocks), the other a small car for fun. Of course I don't actually need 2 cars, but that's what I want.
I'm not sure a car exists that'll carry an 8 foot long load while being small enough to negotiate Cornish back lanes and farm tracks, that is also fun to drive when the fancy takes me.

"Big" car is a C3 Aircross. Practical but "white goods"
Small car is a Picanto turbo - fun, but no good for carrying big things

[Nomme de Plum]

clockworks said:

One car for business use (big enough to collect and deliver grandfather clocks), the other a small car for fun. Of course I don't actually need 2 cars, but that's what I want.
I'm not sure a car exists that'll carry an 8 foot long load while being small enough to negotiate Cornish back lanes and farm tracks, that is also fun to drive when the fancy takes me.

"Big" car is a C3 Aircross. Practical but "white goods"
Small car is a Picanto turbo - fun, but no good for carrying big things

You are correct. Motor manufactures tend to focus on their main market and not fringe requirements especially EVs which are at the beginning of their development journey. There is that VW van thingy that looks cool which may well accommodate your 2.4m clocks. I suspect it is expensive although you may be able to get tax breaks for business use.

I would add that a small EV like an i3S or similar would put a smile on your face performance wise.

Notwithstanding I suggest you wait a while and keep what you have.

[page3]

Things you don’t realise about EVs until you get one …… it’s not all about the cost.

[AC43]

clockworks said:

autumnsum said:

OK pal, well EVs are not for you, thanks for posting, bye.

I'm not saying no, I'm wondering if I'm missing something, hence the question marks in my post. Can running an EV currently make financial sense for the average low mileage private user?

I had a look and can't make the numbers stack up yet.

I bought a low mileage high spec petrol Fiat 500 in 2020. Six years old, one owner, 16k miles, £7k.

The nearest equivalent would be a 2021 500e but they're currently £16.5-£18.5k. But, obviously, a lot newer.

If and when they get down to around £10k I'll start to seriously consider one.

I could stick a charger on the drive and get a month out of one charge.

Why not?

[NDNDNDND]

Nomme de Plum said:

You are correct. Motor manufactures tend to focus on their main market and not fringe requirements especially EVs which are at the beginning of their development journey being forced into widespread usage by legislation .

EFA

The first electric car (1832) predates the first combustion engined car (1864). Electric cars are a long, long way along their development journey.

[NDNDNDND]

AC43 said:

I had a look and can't make the numbers stack up yet.

I bought a low mileage high spec petrol Fiat 500 in 2020. Six years old, one owner, 16k miles, £7k.

The nearest equivalent would be a 2021 500e but they're currently £16.5-£18.5k. But, obviously, a lot newer.

If and when they get down to around £10k I'll start to seriously consider one.

I could stick a charger on the drive and get a month out of one charge.

Why not?

Funnily enough my 70 year old Mum just bought a slightly ropey Mazda 2 for about £10k from a dealer, and I was a bit annoyed that she didn't speak to me first. For only slightly more she could have got a 2018 Leaf or a 2016 i3, either of which would have been much, much better for her.

[Nomme de Plum]

NDNDNDND said:

EFA

The first electric car (1832) predates the first combustion engined car (1864). Electric cars are a long, long way along their development journey.

Yes I'm fully aware of their history but when Henry Ford developed the Model T it effectively killed off the personal EV market which up to that point had been developing albeit slowly.

The level of investment in BEVs in the interim has been an utter tiny percentage of ICE investment.

So in terms of scale we are at the beginning of that journey. Sometimes technologies need to be developed sufficiently to enable an idea to be successful. That is where we are with BEVs.

[clockworks]

Nomme de Plum said:

You are correct. Motor manufactures tend to focus on their main market and not fringe requirements especially EVs which are at the beginning of their development journey. There is that VW van thingy that looks cool which may well accommodate your 2.4m clocks. I suspect it is expensive although you may be able to get tax breaks for business use.

I would add that a small EV like an i3S or similar would put a smile on your face performance wise.

Notwithstanding I suggest you wait a while and keep what you have.

I just checked the dimensions. The 7 seat Caddy is over 2 feet longer and 4 inches wider than my Aircross. It's bigger than a Peugeot Rifter lwb, and the same size as the Superb estate I had a couple of years ago.
Basically, much bigger than I need. The C3 Aircross does everything I need, just very bland.

i3S gets good reviews, apart from the jiggly ride. That's enough to put me off. All the "fun" roads round here are quite bumpy

[Nomme de Plum]

clockworks said:

I just checked the dimensions. The 7 seat Caddy is over 2 feet longer and 4 inches wider than my Aircross. It's bigger than a Peugeot Rifter lwb, and the same size as the Superb estate I had a couple of years ago.
Basically, much bigger than I need. The C3 Aircross does everything I need, just very bland.

i3S gets good reviews, apart from the jiggly ride. That's enough to put me off. All the "fun" roads round here are quite bumpy

I'm going to change the springs on mine and maybe the dampers. It a great fun car to drive but the B roads around me are appalling. It's Carbon Fibre so should last a good few years.

It's worth a test drive though just to get the feel of an EV. The i3S feels more responsive than the original i3. I generally drive in one of the Eco modes to make the car less responsive.

[autumnsum]

NDNDNDND said:

Nomme de Plum said:

You are correct. Motor manufactures tend to focus on their main market and not fringe requirements especially EVs which are at the beginning of their development journey being forced into widespread usage by legislation .

EFA

The first electric car (1832) predates the first combustion engined car (1864). Electric cars are a long, long way along their development journey.

That's now how the world works.

If you just think about what you said for a few seconds.

[TheDeuce]

autumnsum said:

NDNDNDND said:

Nomme de Plum said:

You are correct. Motor manufactures tend to focus on their main market and not fringe requirements especially EVs which are at the beginning of their development journey being forced into widespread usage by legislation .

EFA

The first electric car (1832) predates the first combustion engined car (1864). Electric cars are a long, long way along their development journey.

That's now how the world works.

If you just think about what you said for a few seconds.

In the Jurassic period a velociraptor accidently nudged a smooth stone down a slope - hence, the wheel has been 'in development' for 150 million years

But of course, from our perspective, nothing is truly in development unless it's being actively developed. For the longest part of the history of the car, no real development of electric cars took place at all.

[poo at Paul's]

autumnsum said:

OK pal, well EVs are not for you, thanks for posting, bye.

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh!

Ok pal, this thread's not for you, bye!


OP, when you say the EV price is getting parity with the ice equivalent, do you mean that, ie on a secondhad car, just the purchase price, or overall costs?
Because you are mentioning replacing both cars?

I still think an "equivalent EV" is more pricey to buy secondhand than an ice equivalent, but it is getting closer, not least that demand is lower for 2nd hand EV vs a 2nd hand ice at the mo. The Evs are a bit depressed price wise as a result, whereas the cost of euro 5 diesels and petrols seems absolutley bonkers to me.

But if it doesnt pan out cost wise, unless you want a change or a newer car etc, the answer is obvious, stick with what you got.

[survivalist]

Doubt it’ll work out more cost effective, but why not do a few test drives see if you like them.

Replacing the big car will likely be the more expensive option, so if it were me I’d look at the smaller car - e-UP, i3, Fiat 500 electric etc might be interesting,