EV 'charger' advice
Discussion
Hi all
Q8 etron coming at the end of the year and we need a (7Kw) charge point at home. Still some time to go, but I like to be prepared.
I'll be requesting quotations and the installers' advice but wondered if anyone here could advise on suitability of charge points and installation challenges based on their experience?
- prefer a display on the point so we aren't reliant on an app to see levels of charge (am I over-valuing this?)
- we have really poor 3G/4G signal but should be able to get wifi to extend to it
- tethered preferred
- smart in that it could utilise flexible tariffs (we haven't a smart meter yet, and would the lack of 3G/4G hinder our ability to utilise a flexible tariff?)
- depends on eventual location of the point, but a long cable is preferable
We've a 100amp fuse in the meter box, which is near the drive and the other side of the wall to our fuse boxes - one of which is the current standard with spare slots.
Would have liked the charge point on the garage, but the supply to the garage is through a 16mm (external diameter) armoured cable which goes under a patio, and leads to a small consumer unit/breaker with a 26amp fuse - I think because the cable goes underground else it might have been able to have a 40amp fuse.
This means - I think - the point needs to go elsewhere... pic below of drive, c. 9 meters between black gates and garage. Car will be parked in front of the garage.
The buttress the gate is attached to is over 40cm wide so could be an option for an install - running cable from the meter, along the curved wall. Running a new cable under the block paving to the garage probably isn't an option as I imagine taking up the blocks and digging a trench would not not be proportionate to the end goal from a cost perspective.
I liked the Ohme point but it only has 3G/4G and our signal is probably too weak. Zappi looks promising but only a 6 meter cable, which could be enough depending on location.
Thoughts/musings/experience/advice all welcome!
Q8 etron coming at the end of the year and we need a (7Kw) charge point at home. Still some time to go, but I like to be prepared.
I'll be requesting quotations and the installers' advice but wondered if anyone here could advise on suitability of charge points and installation challenges based on their experience?
- prefer a display on the point so we aren't reliant on an app to see levels of charge (am I over-valuing this?)
- we have really poor 3G/4G signal but should be able to get wifi to extend to it
- tethered preferred
- smart in that it could utilise flexible tariffs (we haven't a smart meter yet, and would the lack of 3G/4G hinder our ability to utilise a flexible tariff?)
- depends on eventual location of the point, but a long cable is preferable
We've a 100amp fuse in the meter box, which is near the drive and the other side of the wall to our fuse boxes - one of which is the current standard with spare slots.
Would have liked the charge point on the garage, but the supply to the garage is through a 16mm (external diameter) armoured cable which goes under a patio, and leads to a small consumer unit/breaker with a 26amp fuse - I think because the cable goes underground else it might have been able to have a 40amp fuse.
This means - I think - the point needs to go elsewhere... pic below of drive, c. 9 meters between black gates and garage. Car will be parked in front of the garage.
The buttress the gate is attached to is over 40cm wide so could be an option for an install - running cable from the meter, along the curved wall. Running a new cable under the block paving to the garage probably isn't an option as I imagine taking up the blocks and digging a trench would not not be proportionate to the end goal from a cost perspective.
I liked the Ohme point but it only has 3G/4G and our signal is probably too weak. Zappi looks promising but only a 6 meter cable, which could be enough depending on location.
Thoughts/musings/experience/advice all welcome!
Why do you need 4G on a charger if it's for the home? I also don't think the charger will give levels of car on the vehicle.
I looked into this and finally went for a simple tethered "dumb" charger on the basis I can set a charge schedule on the car so didn't need to duplicate this functionality.
I looked into this and finally went for a simple tethered "dumb" charger on the basis I can set a charge schedule on the car so didn't need to duplicate this functionality.
WestyCarl said:
Why do you need 4G on a charger if it's for the home? I also don't think the charger will give levels of car on the vehicle.
I looked into this and finally went for a simple tethered "dumb" charger on the basis I can set a charge schedule on the car so didn't need to duplicate this functionality.
Connectivity, rather than 4G specifically - for software updates and for some sort of connection to take advantage of flexible rate tariffs - the Octopus ones where the rate varies overnight. Or that's what I thought! I looked into this and finally went for a simple tethered "dumb" charger on the basis I can set a charge schedule on the car so didn't need to duplicate this functionality.
If you have a charger that relies on mobile coverage and you can only provide broadband, you may be able to use a "booster box" that provides a local mobile signal.
e.g. https://www.o2.co.uk/business/solutions/connectivi...
Whilst checking the (car) app is the easiest way to check charge level, if you are next to car\charger then "most" cars show charge level on dash even when "off" if charging, so I would not worry about charger display.
e.g. https://www.o2.co.uk/business/solutions/connectivi...
Whilst checking the (car) app is the easiest way to check charge level, if you are next to car\charger then "most" cars show charge level on dash even when "off" if charging, so I would not worry about charger display.
ian_c_uk said:
If you have a charger that relies on mobile coverage and you can only provide broadband, you may be able to use a "booster box" that provides a local mobile signal.
e.g. https://www.o2.co.uk/business/solutions/connectivi...
Whilst checking the (car) app is the easiest way to check charge level, if you are next to car\charger then "most" cars show charge level on dash even when "off" if charging, so I would not worry about charger display.
Thanks for that - the booster is worth considering regardless of the charge point.e.g. https://www.o2.co.uk/business/solutions/connectivi...
Whilst checking the (car) app is the easiest way to check charge level, if you are next to car\charger then "most" cars show charge level on dash even when "off" if charging, so I would not worry about charger display.
I've got a company quoting for an install. Zappi is looking promising at this point. The charge points all cost about the same in the scheme of things.
Point taken on the screen. Notwithstanding that, smart functionality I think will be useful going forward.
If you want to use the Intelligent Octopus tariff (you probably will), then you will need a compatible charger and/or vehicle. I don't know if it works with Audis - if not you'll need an Ohme charger.
Worth checking out http://evdrivers.uk too
Worth checking out http://evdrivers.uk too
RossP said:
If you want to use the Intelligent Octopus tariff (you probably will), then you will need a compatible charger and/or vehicle. I don't know if it works with Audis - if not you'll need an Ohme charger.
Worth checking out http://evdrivers.uk too
I'm not on FB and it's a private group - thanks for sharing though.Worth checking out http://evdrivers.uk too
When you say compatible charger and or vehicle, do you mean compatible with the Octopus tariff? I've just checked, and Octopus advertise the Zappi, so assume this is compatible. The Ohme is only 3G/4G and our signal is very weak.
number2 said:
I'm not on FB and it's a private group - thanks for sharing though.
When you say compatible charger and or vehicle, do you mean compatible with the Octopus tariff? I've just checked, and Octopus advertise the Zappi, so assume this is compatible. The Ohme is only 3G/4G and our signal is very weak.
Just checked and your Audi is supported by IO so you can use any charger including a dumb one. When you say compatible charger and or vehicle, do you mean compatible with the Octopus tariff? I've just checked, and Octopus advertise the Zappi, so assume this is compatible. The Ohme is only 3G/4G and our signal is very weak.
IO gives you cheap electricity between 11.30pm and 5.30am AND cheap electricity when it decides to charge your car. You can say you need a certain level of charge for a certain time and it will work around that.
Only DC rapid chargers communicate enough with the car to see what the battery state of charge is. Home AC ones like Ohme only do it via the internet in the same way as the app does. It’s not the most reliable even in areas with good signal.
Zappi is probably best if you don’t want to rely on mobile signal but still have some smart features. Vast majority of EV tariffs though are just a timed window which is simple to set a schedule either on car or charger.
If you’re not sure on driveway arrangement then go untethered and buy your own 10+ metre cable to suit.
Zappi is probably best if you don’t want to rely on mobile signal but still have some smart features. Vast majority of EV tariffs though are just a timed window which is simple to set a schedule either on car or charger.
If you’re not sure on driveway arrangement then go untethered and buy your own 10+ metre cable to suit.
On your 16mm cable size, really you need to know your exact length and ground loop impedance (resisitance of your main earth) to allow for voltage drop and disconnection times. IEE onsite guide has tables for this.
On the cable run, alternatively it could maybe go up inside house in loft and then to an outside SWA cable to the garage from house corner -either buried or suspended.
You'll probably find if you look at the conductors of the existing cable that it's not as big as you think it is hence being protected at 20-odd Amps. 16mm external diameter for an SWA means (I think) it could be anywhere from 3-6mm squared in terms of conductor surface area.
I had the same problem but fortunately could address it by cutting through 50m of lawn avoiding any paving/tarmac nearly entirely, so I bit the bullet and had the groundwork done to bury a number of fat flexible ducts. I would recommend this approach if you do have to bury anything new because if you decide that actually you want to replace the wire in the future (say you upgrade to 3-phase in 10 years time) or decide you want some extra data cables down there for all the smart devices you have, it's dead easy to stick it in a conduit with spare capacity than it is to re-trench it all.
I had the same problem but fortunately could address it by cutting through 50m of lawn avoiding any paving/tarmac nearly entirely, so I bit the bullet and had the groundwork done to bury a number of fat flexible ducts. I would recommend this approach if you do have to bury anything new because if you decide that actually you want to replace the wire in the future (say you upgrade to 3-phase in 10 years time) or decide you want some extra data cables down there for all the smart devices you have, it's dead easy to stick it in a conduit with spare capacity than it is to re-trench it all.
Mr E said:
I’d let the car do all the smart stuff and leave the charger dumb.
Mine provides power, that’s it. Octopus tell the car when to switch on (ie when it’s cheap)
I would suggest the opposite, get the Ohme, not all cars are compatible with Octopus Intelligent, we have 2 EVs one is, one isn't. Mine provides power, that’s it. Octopus tell the car when to switch on (ie when it’s cheap)
Without the Ohme we wouldn't be able to reliably charge the other, without a lot of faffing about.
Also I've had my Home pro for nearly 18m without issue.
Could the app be better yes, but it works.
These wall boxes are not chargers , they are power supplies ! Albeit with some level of intelligence ( unlike me ! ) the electronics in the car does the battery charging and works out what’s needed.
I fitted a Zappi trouble is Octopus hasent yet decided to integrate with it or our Renault Megane, nor has Renault , how ever it seems to work fine when plugged on the green charge mode it just allows the car to use the excess power generated by our Solar PV to charge car batteries , today I would gues on average that would be about 6kw per hour. We also fully charge our 7kw of home batteries, so we are likely to have been totally of grid today for house and car !
I fitted a Zappi trouble is Octopus hasent yet decided to integrate with it or our Renault Megane, nor has Renault , how ever it seems to work fine when plugged on the green charge mode it just allows the car to use the excess power generated by our Solar PV to charge car batteries , today I would gues on average that would be about 6kw per hour. We also fully charge our 7kw of home batteries, so we are likely to have been totally of grid today for house and car !
RossP said:
number2 said:
I'm not on FB and it's a private group - thanks for sharing though.
When you say compatible charger and or vehicle, do you mean compatible with the Octopus tariff? I've just checked, and Octopus advertise the Zappi, so assume this is compatible. The Ohme is only 3G/4G and our signal is very weak.
Just checked and your Audi is supported by IO so you can use any charger including a dumb one. When you say compatible charger and or vehicle, do you mean compatible with the Octopus tariff? I've just checked, and Octopus advertise the Zappi, so assume this is compatible. The Ohme is only 3G/4G and our signal is very weak.
IO gives you cheap electricity between 11.30pm and 5.30am AND cheap electricity when it decides to charge your car. You can say you need a certain level of charge for a certain time and it will work around that.
sjg said:
Only DC rapid chargers communicate enough with the car to see what the battery state of charge is. Home AC ones like Ohme only do it via the internet in the same way as the app does. It’s not the most reliable even in areas with good signal.
Zappi is probably best if you don’t want to rely on mobile signal but still have some smart features. Vast majority of EV tariffs though are just a timed window which is simple to set a schedule either on car or charger.
If you’re not sure on driveway arrangement then go untethered and buy your own 10+ metre cable to suit.
Interesting and useful fact about the AC vs DC.Zappi is probably best if you don’t want to rely on mobile signal but still have some smart features. Vast majority of EV tariffs though are just a timed window which is simple to set a schedule either on car or charger.
If you’re not sure on driveway arrangement then go untethered and buy your own 10+ metre cable to suit.
Good point re. the untethered. We can leave that hanging on the wall next to the charger when not in use.
When I get the quote/survey back from the installer I'll judge based on where we can have it without digging... somewhere that needs a 10m cable I would think!
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