Boat Fire Caused By EV

[lost in espace]

Sorry for the Daily Fail link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12338705/...

Once electric car fire takes out whole boat! I wonder what this means for transporting electric cars on boats. One dead, many injured.

[kambites]

All sorts of different things cause boat fires, and sadly they often result in injury or loss of life. That never stops people shipping the things in question by boat though.

Regarding EVs specifically, I think the mainstream market is drifting towards LFP cells anyway in which case the problem pretty much goes away.

[Drumroll]

kambites said:

All sorts of different things cause boat fires, and sadly they often result in injury or loss of life. That never stops people shipping the things in question by boat though.

Regarding EVs specifically, I think the mainstream market is drifting towards LFP cells anyway in which case the problem pretty much goes away.

The problem doesn't go away though does it. We still have EV's now, we still have the same issue. Mind you I doubt the current crop of EV's will be around as long as there ICE counterparts.

[Burrow01]

lost in espace said:

Sorry for the Daily Fail link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12338705/...

Once electric car fire takes out whole boat! I wonder what this means for transporting electric cars on boats. One dead, many injured.

How do they deal with shipping ICE vehicles ? Presumably the tanks have a small amount of fuel in them for loading / unloading

[Drumroll]

Burrow01 said:

How do they deal with shipping ICE vehicles ? Presumably the tanks have a small amount of fuel in them for loading / unloading

But ICE fires are different. You don't get Thermal Runaway with an ICE fire and that is the big issue.

[kambites]

Drumroll said:

The problem doesn't go away though does it. We still have EV's now, we still have the same issue. Mind you I doubt the current crop of EV's will be around as long as there ICE counterparts.

Why would anyone put a used EV on a container ship? I suppose it happens occasionally, but it's hardly the norm.

[rodericb]

kambites said:

Drumroll said:

The problem doesn't go away though does it. We still have EV's now, we still have the same issue. Mind you I doubt the current crop of EV's will be around as long as there ICE counterparts.

Why would anyone put a used EV on a container ship? I suppose it happens occasionally, but it's hardly the norm.

What? This one was on a car carrier. I'd guess that it's a new EV but you never know.

[TheDeuce]

Drumroll said:

The problem doesn't go away though does it. We still have EV's now, we still have the same issue. Mind you I doubt the current crop of EV's will be around as long as there ICE counterparts.

The problem does go away with progress, of course it does - it just takes time and eventually the older EV's are replaced.

Is the thermal runaway problem really an issue..? YES!! Of course it is, it's a very rare but occasionally very significant downside of using li-ion packs to power cars - only a fool would deny as much. But it's worth it for progress in a better overall direction, and the reality is that without creating demand for massively more battery battery storage, which EV's are doing, we won't get new, far safer and cleaner solid state battery technology.

Imagine you're a caveman (not suggesting anything about your attitude to EV's) and you see another caveman make a fire, cook his lion steak, he's very happy - at night his family don't die of hyperthermia either. So off you scuttle back to your own cave to make your own fire - but 'ouch st bd', you've gone and burnt your hand!

Do you: a) conclude 'fire is dangerous, I don't need this - ever' and announce that mankind should progress without it. b) accept and be mindful of the risks of fire and continue to make use of it to make life better?

[Drumroll]

kambites said:

Why would anyone put a used EV on a container ship? I suppose it happens occasionally, but it's hardly the norm.

My response was about EV's in general not just specifically on ships.

[Rough101]

Only one automaker experts EV’s through Bremerhaven.

[Drumroll]

TheDeuce said:

Drumroll said:

The problem doesn't go away though does it. We still have EV's now, we still have the same issue. Mind you I doubt the current crop of EV's will be around as long as there ICE counterparts.

The problem does go away with progress, of course it does - it just takes time and eventually the older EV's are replaced.

Is the thermal runaway problem really an issue..? YES!! Of course it is, it's a very rare but occasionally very significant downside of using li-ion packs to power cars - only a fool would deny as much. But it's worth it for progress in a better overall direction, and the reality is that without creating demand for massively more battery battery storage, which EV's are doing, we won't get new, far safer and cleaner solid state battery technology.

Imagine you're a caveman (not suggesting anything about your attitude to EV's) and you see another caveman make a fire, cook his lion steak, he's very happy - at night his family don't die of hyperthermia either. So off you scuttle back to your own cave to make your own fire - but 'ouch st bd', you've gone and burnt your hand!

Do you: a) conclude 'fire is dangerous, I don't need this - ever' and announce that mankind should progress without it. b) accept and be mindful of the risks of fire and continue to make use of it to make life better?

Using your caveman story, could be applied to any form of "progress", but lets be honest not all progress is good. If it was we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

Progress often has unforeseen consequences, often not known of at the time.

For me EV's are no more than a sticking plaster for much bigger problems.

[AlexIT]

Once a vehicle burns on a ship there is not much you can do:

2022: Euroferry Olympia 8+ dead after fire broke out in one of the garages https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60428292
2014: Norman Atlantic 28 estimated dead after a lorry caught fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Norman_Atlantic

Several tons of highly flammable liquid are not really safe anyway

[TheDeuce]

Drumroll said:

TheDeuce said:

Drumroll said:

The problem doesn't go away though does it. We still have EV's now, we still have the same issue. Mind you I doubt the current crop of EV's will be around as long as there ICE counterparts.

The problem does go away with progress, of course it does - it just takes time and eventually the older EV's are replaced.

Is the thermal runaway problem really an issue..? YES!! Of course it is, it's a very rare but occasionally very significant downside of using li-ion packs to power cars - only a fool would deny as much. But it's worth it for progress in a better overall direction, and the reality is that without creating demand for massively more battery battery storage, which EV's are doing, we won't get new, far safer and cleaner solid state battery technology.

Imagine you're a caveman (not suggesting anything about your attitude to EV's) and you see another caveman make a fire, cook his lion steak, he's very happy - at night his family don't die of hyperthermia either. So off you scuttle back to your own cave to make your own fire - but 'ouch st bd', you've gone and burnt your hand!

Do you: a) conclude 'fire is dangerous, I don't need this - ever' and announce that mankind should progress without it. b) accept and be mindful of the risks of fire and continue to make use of it to make life better?

Using your caveman story, could be applied to any form of "progress", but lets be honest not all progress is good. If it was we wouldn't be in the situation we are now.

Progress often has unforeseen consequences, often not known of at the time.

For me EV's are no more than a sticking plaster for much bigger problems.

EV's are simply a part of progress. They are already driving hundreds of billions into accelerating new battery technology which will benefit everyone and the planet in far more significant ways then what is used to power cars.

EV's also have the immediate effect of reducing pollution in the areas where the highest density's of people actually live. It's not all about carbon footprint.

Progress is a wild and unpredictable thing, but it's also as natural and innocent as a Polar Bear or Buttercup and totally unavoidable for a species as intelligent as ours.

Regardless of our differing views on how important EV's specifically might be, it is provable that they bring an overall net benefit in carbon and health terms - so why not? The fact that once in a blue moon the thermal runaway issue raises it's head is not a reason to give up on the best direction for personal transport we can currently deliver.

Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 26th July 11:26

[TheDeuce]

AlexIT said:

Once a vehicle burns on a ship there is not much you can do:

2022: Euroferry Olympia 8+ dead after fire broke out in one of the garages https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60428292
2014: Norman Atlantic 28 estimated dead after a lorry caught fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Norman_Atlantic

Several tons of highly flammable liquid are not really safe anyway

If all the cars on a ship were solid state cell powered there wouldn't be any fuel to burn, and solid state batteries themselves don't combust either. That's a long way off but it will also be the first time cars packed densely into a hard to access space won't be a potential risk of a major fire. The more we progress with EV's, the closer that future becomes.

Do I think boat fires is an important factor? No, not really. It's so incredibly rare that it won't ever be a factor in driving progress or changing political desire. But it will inevitably one day be solved as a side-result of improving ways to power vehicles.

[kambites]

Drumroll said:

kambites said:

Why would anyone put a used EV on a container ship? I suppose it happens occasionally, but it's hardly the norm.

My response was about EV's in general not just specifically on ships.

Well perhaps on a thread about shipping fires you should have made that explicit!

[kambites]

AlexIT said:

Once a vehicle burns on a ship there is not much you can do

Same as things like phones and laptops catching fire on planes. It's a horrible situation.

[TheDeuce]

kambites said:

AlexIT said:

Once a vehicle burns on a ship there is not much you can do

Same as things like phones and laptops catching fire on planes. It's a horrible situation.

Indeed, on all recent flights I have been on they make announcements about how to deal with personal device battery faults. Also electric scooters and hoverboards are a growing issue, they tend to be kept on charge overnight indoors which has already resulted in one very nasty fire. Even without EV's the growth of li-ion powered products is sky-rocketing, and they all get transported one way or another, stashed in kids bedrooms on charge overnight.. My niece has a tablet, a phone, a nintendo switch and a hoverboard on charge most nights, I don't doubt often surrounded by a load of clothes etc as kindling. But this is normal life for billions of people who rely one way or another on li-ion devices.

We need better batteries. We won't get them by banning things that use existing batteries though - that would simply stall the development of a better solution.

[normalbloke]

TheDeuce said:

kambites said:

AlexIT said:

Once a vehicle burns on a ship there is not much you can do

Same as things like phones and laptops catching fire on planes. It's a horrible situation.

Also electric scooters and hoverboards are a growing issue, they tend to be kept on charge overnight indoors which has already resulted in one very nasty fire..

Just the one? Not even close.

[anonymous-user]

lost in espace said:

Sorry for the Daily Fail link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12338705/...

Once electric car fire takes out whole boat! I wonder what this means for transporting electric cars on boats. One dead, many injured.

Although you've posted this in the right section (possibly NPE as well) the problem you have saying anything critical in this section is that the EV fan boys will jump to every "whatabout" excuse going.

[untakenname]

Surely the high frequency of these EV fires on boats will lead EV's being banned from Eurotunnel and Ferries?