Why are used Audi e-tron so cheap?

[Gez79]

A friend is thinking of getting a used Audi E-tron and, as his friendly car geek, he asked me what I thought.

I warned him the range is pretty bad (under 200 miles officially, so in reality even less) but he says he's happy with that and really likes them, and to be fair the reviews of them seem pretty good, apart from the range/efficiency.

But they seem really cheap. He was looking at a black edition, 2.5 years old with around 30k on it and it's for sale will under£40k, for a car that I think was around £70k new?

And I've found a 55 quattro with loads of expensive extras, which is under £35k and from an app I have, I can see it was for sale in October 2020 for £63000 when it had 9000 miles on it.

Not quite comparing apples with apples but I bought an 18 month old Skoda Superb 280 in October 2020 from Skoda. This was just before used car prices went mad.

I've had a part ex price for it this week and I've only lost £2500 in all that time, yet that Audi e-tron has lost £30,000 over the same period!

I'm not that clued up on the electric used market, but that's a massive hit considering most used cars have barely lost anything over the same period. Is the e-tron suffering more because of its poor range or are most electric cars subject high depreciation?

[theboss]

Mine is at the end of its lease and being collected by BCA on Wednesday with 41k miles on it. It's a 55 with list price £76k and was built in 2019.

I did take a look at auto trader wondering what it might sell for and they do strike me as something of a bargain. I reckon trade mine must be barely £25k

Mine has been fairly reliable. Range has actually improved overall since new because of marginal efficiency improvements in software. They are good for 220-230 miles at this time of year, less than 200 in winter. They're a nice spacious refined family SUV though if you can live with that.

[Sheepshanks]

Gez79 said:

I'm not that clued up on the electric used market, but that's a massive hit considering most used cars have barely lost anything over the same period. Is the e-tron suffering more because of its poor range or are most electric cars subject high depreciation?

Been an issue for a while: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...


ETA: Get your friend to check insurance quotes if they do want to go ahead - lots of reports of high premiums for EVs.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 16th July 22:39

[ChocolateFrog]

Think they fell off a cliff last winter when leccy was nearly 40p a unit or double/triple to fast charge and they barely clear 1 mile per kwh in the most adverse conditions.

In reality they'll still be significantly cheaper to run than an equivalent ICE SUV by an order of magnitude.

[Fastdruid]

None of the dealers want to touch EVs, generally most of the people getting into them are for tax reasons (company car owners, Powerfully Built Directors etc) who are saving a fortune but that isn't so much the case with *most* people and they're only really going to be saving on fuel.

The appetite for very very expensive EV's is small without that incentive and the last few years of recent massive rises in electricity price haven't helped.

The EV market in general isn't going well (see VW cutting production etc) and the second hand market post-pandemic and with the chip situation resolving itself is returning to normal.

https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/why-electric-car-p...

[SWoll]

Expensive niche product with limited range. They're a very nice bit of kit if they suit your needs but as with all large/expensive SUV's they depreciate like a stone and are a tough sell at 2 to 3 years old.

Had ours for 2 years on lease (going back next month) and have paid nowhere the true depreciated figure looking at used prices. That makes me happy.

[theboss]

ChocolateFrog said:

they barely clear 1 mile per kwh in the most adverse conditions.

Maybe if you're tracking one or towing a caravan up a mountain. I think that is a fairly extreme claim. The lowest I ever did over any significant distance was about 1.8 and that would be one of those motorway journeys where you thought you were missing a flight.

[Evanivitch]

It was Audi's first proper stab at an EV and it's dated quite quickly. Not very efficient, and the Q4 e-tron was a better EV.

The people that would be finance buyers for this have been greatly reduced by the offer of salary sacrifice leasing schemes.

[SWoll]

Evanivitch said:

It was Audi's first proper stab at an EV and it's dated quite quickly. Not very efficient, and the Q4 e-tron was a better EV.

The people that would be finance buyers for this have been greatly reduced by the offer of salary sacrifice leasing schemes.

Never understand this argument. The tech in it is current generation and it still has one of the better charge curves around maintaining 150kW all the way from 0-80%.

Had a Q4 for a couple of weeks. Barely any more efficient, worse tech, much cheaper feeling inside, slower and offers a harsher ride.

theboss said:

ChocolateFrog said:

they barely clear 1 mile per kwh in the most adverse conditions.

Maybe if you're tracking one or towing a caravan up a mountain. I think that is a fairly extreme claim. The lowest I ever did over any significant distance was about 1.8 and that would be one of those motorway journeys where you thought you were missing a flight.

Same here. Our average over 2 years and 20k miles is 2.5 mile/kWh with a low point of 1.8 (dead of winter, short journey) and high of 3.1 (recent good weather)

[Evanivitch]

SWoll said:

Never understand this argument. The tech in it is current generation and it still has one of the better charge curves around maintaining 150kW all the way from 0-80%.

Had a Q4 for a couple of weeks. Barely any more efficient, worse tech, much cheaper feeling inside, slower and offers a harsher ride.

Plenty of sources stating that the etron has somewhat significantly less range than a Q4 e-tron and from s smaller battery. Which given the £15k difference in RRP is somewhat a surprise for most people.

Yes, the etron charge curve is good, but not etron GT good or other 800V platforms.

[fatjon]

It was hugely over priced. Now you can buy a new Kia, Polestar or Tesla and get a better deal and a better car than a secondhand Audi.

[Zero Fuchs]

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of VAG but even with my neutral hat on, Audi EV's aren't particularly efficient, low mass, have the best range or handle better than the competition.

However, a used one makes a very good proposition and remains the cheapest way to drive a large SUV compared to a petrol equivalent. Even with the inefficiencies, they'll still wipe the floor with an ICE with similar performance. Given the love for SUV's I'm not sure why used ones aren't more popular.

[chrisk]

I think they're a bit of a steal at the moment.

Depreciation has hit EVs hard but some a lot more than others and it's not easily explained. The E-Tron is quiet, comfortable, well built and spacious. Owners really like them.

Model S and BMW I3 seems really good value too at the moment. I guess Korean EVs have a 7yr warranty and maybe a factor?

[SWoll]

fatjon said:

It was hugely over priced. Now you can buy a new Kia, Polestar or Tesla and get a better deal and a better car than a secondhand Audi.

If you're only measue of better is efficiency then I'd agree. By pretty much any other measure (build, comfort, refinement, tech) then not even close.

Evanivitch said:

SWoll said:

Never understand this argument. The tech in it is current generation and it still has one of the better charge curves around maintaining 150kW all the way from 0-80%.

Had a Q4 for a couple of weeks. Barely any more efficient, worse tech, much cheaper feeling inside, slower and offers a harsher ride.

Plenty of sources stating that the etron has somewhat significantly less range than a Q4 e-tron and from s smaller battery. Which given the £15k difference in RRP is somewhat a surprise for most people.

Yes, the etron charge curve is good, but not etron GT good or other 800V platforms.

Obviously it's not as efficient as a smaller, lighter, less powerful alternative but there's little in it real world IME. Drive both and the £15k difference in price is very easy to understand, they feel at least 2 vehicle classes apart in terms of quality and refinement, like comparing a 3 series with a 7 series

800v charge curves are impressive at low SOC % but in many cases drop off quickly if looking for a substantial charge for a long trip.

Here's an example for the etron GT



and the etron

Edited by SWoll on Monday 17th July 13:08

[Luke.]

chrisk said:

I think they're a bit of a steal at the moment.

Depreciation has hit EVs hard but some a lot more than others and it's not easily explained. The E-Tron is quiet, comfortable, well built and spacious. Owners really like them.

Model S and BMW I3 seems really good value too at the moment. I guess Korean EVs have a 7yr warranty and maybe a factor?

I-Pace is great value right now too. Staring at about £23k.

[SWoll]

Luke. said:

I-Pace is great value right now too. Staring at about £23k.

A car for which I would suggest the dated technology suggestion does apply. 100kW max charge rate with a relatively poor curve, very dated and slow infotainment on the earlier cars etc.

If that doesn't bother you they are brilliant to drive though, far more dynamic than the etron.

[PistonTim]

The refresh rate for EV seems to be 3-4 years and will likely continue so much faster than traditional ICE, that's why the bottom has fallen out of EV ownership values (and resale / dealer trade ins) and older high end models are likely to be increasingly less desirable at the premium end, less so the budget end for 'shopping' cars (such as Leaf, Ioniq).

You'd be insane to invest capital into an aging premium EV in the current conditions.

I've got salary sacrifice for mine, no upfront costs and in 4 years time hand it back and see what the next generation of transport brings.

[Gez79]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Gez79 said:

He was looking at a black edition, 2.5 years old with around 30k on it and it's for sale will under£40k, for a car that I think was around £70k new?

And I've found a 55 quattro with loads of expensive extras, which is under £35k and from an app I have, I can see it was for sale in October 2020 for £63000 when it had 9000 miles on it.

Tell me about any luxo-barge that retains more than half its value after a two or three years.

I think over the last 3 years almost all of them, with the big rises of used car values from 2021 onwards.

I'll check these prices for accuracy but in 2020 I have a E-tron 55 quattro retailing at £72k ish before extras, whereas an Audi Q7 50 TDI S Line was around £62k. The cheapest 2020 Q7 with less than 40k on it is £43k but a 55 E-tron is 35k ish and the 50 is £32k (which was over £60k new in 2020).

So it would seem that the electric SUV has lost a lot more money than the diesel equivalent.

[Evanivitch]

SWoll said:

Obviously it's not as efficient as a smaller, lighter, less powerful alternative but there's little in it real world IME. Drive both and the £15k difference in price is very easy to understand, they feel at least 2 vehicle classes apart in terms of quality and refinement, like comparing a 3 series with a 7 series

Well it's massively less efficient than a BMW iX or a Model Y or even an EQC, so I don't buy the size and weight argument.

Yeah, you can argue it's better build quality for sure, that'll be very useful when you're having to make more frequent stops for a rapid charge I'm sure.

SWoll said:

800v charge curves are impressive at low SOC % but in many cases drop off quickly if looking for a substantial charge for a long trip.

Here's an example for the etron GT



and the etron

Edited by SWoll on Monday 17th July 13:08

The Y-axis scale isn't the same on those two diagrams...

The 800V system destroys the etron.

[kambites]

The eTron looks better from about 68% upwards to me?