Anti EV cliches/ misinformation and the pushback against it
Discussion
just watched a fully charged youtube video where dan caesar (sp), rob llewellyn and quentin wilson discussed setting up a body to pushback against EV/ electrification misinformation under the stop burning stuff banner.
we see the same old twaddle trotted out on PH in the EV related threads, with the latest high profile one being the rowan atkinson piece. will be interesting to see how effective they can be.
we see the same old twaddle trotted out on PH in the EV related threads, with the latest high profile one being the rowan atkinson piece. will be interesting to see how effective they can be.
I like and support the idea, but truthfully I don't think it's needed.
It's only natural there will be a pushback against such a shake-up after a century+ of ICE familiarity. I think however, even without help or support, eventually the logic that is BEV will win out.
BEV makes cars move further, more cleanly, for less input energy than any other solution. That basic fact will eventually filter through the layers of BS.
I'm tired of pointlessly debating that point on here, but I'm also confident the result will be that BEV will become the common and obvious solution.
Job jobbed.
It's only natural there will be a pushback against such a shake-up after a century+ of ICE familiarity. I think however, even without help or support, eventually the logic that is BEV will win out.
BEV makes cars move further, more cleanly, for less input energy than any other solution. That basic fact will eventually filter through the layers of BS.
I'm tired of pointlessly debating that point on here, but I'm also confident the result will be that BEV will become the common and obvious solution.
Job jobbed.
TheDeuce said:
I like and support the idea, but truthfully I don't think it's needed.
It's only natural there will be a pushback against such a shake-up after a century+ of ICE familiarity. I think however, even without help or support, eventually the logic that is BEV will win out.
BEV makes cars move further, more cleanly, for less input energy than any other solution. That basic fact will eventually filter through the layers of BS.
I'm tired of pointlessly debating that point on here, but I'm also confident the result will be that BEV will become the common and obvious solution.
Job jobbed.
I agree - I think that, in the UK at least, it's not really worth the effort. The manufacturers are very rapidly removing choice from their mainstream offerings. Diesel is pretty much gone already from many ranges apart from a few die hard 2.0 4 cyl options, but given another year or so, I think they'll give up on those too. It's only natural there will be a pushback against such a shake-up after a century+ of ICE familiarity. I think however, even without help or support, eventually the logic that is BEV will win out.
BEV makes cars move further, more cleanly, for less input energy than any other solution. That basic fact will eventually filter through the layers of BS.
I'm tired of pointlessly debating that point on here, but I'm also confident the result will be that BEV will become the common and obvious solution.
Job jobbed.
Assuming the Zero Emissions Vehicle Mandate does happen, then the momentum will build significantly from next year onwards.
Also, with the onslaught of new BEVs coming in the next few years including those of much lower entry price, there will be enough to tempt the vast majority who can charge at home to make the switch.
Doofus said:
I watched the same vid. But again, it was only one side of the story.
At one point, somebody (Dan?) said "I don't call them zero emission vehicles, because they're not" That's true, but it's also not what Rob has been saying for several years.
'emissions' are one of the goalposts that have been moved though. nobody ever used to consider emissions to be anything other than what came out of the back of vehicles. only since EVs nudged further towards mainstream did manufacturing emissions start being considered too.At one point, somebody (Dan?) said "I don't call them zero emission vehicles, because they're not" That's true, but it's also not what Rob has been saying for several years.
absolutely correctly as it happens, if we're serious about cleaning this rock up. but this goes further than EVs alone and more into transformation to renewables/ low carbon generation.
Doofus said:
I watched the same vid. But again, it was only one side of the story.
At one point, somebody (Dan?) said "I don't call them zero emission vehicles, because they're not" That's true, but it's also not what Rob has been saying for several years.
Yep, it goes both ways.At one point, somebody (Dan?) said "I don't call them zero emission vehicles, because they're not" That's true, but it's also not what Rob has been saying for several years.
Loads of rubbish from both sides.
Let the cars sell themselves, I say. The market will sort itself out.
Doofus said:
I watched the same vid. But again, it was only one side of the story.
At one point, somebody (Dan?) said "I don't call them zero emission vehicles, because they're not" That's true, but it's also not what Rob has been saying for several years.
They are zero emissions but obviously not zero carbon or any other impact - I mean... Duh... Machine has a footprint.At one point, somebody (Dan?) said "I don't call them zero emission vehicles, because they're not" That's true, but it's also not what Rob has been saying for several years.
It's all getting a bit tired though isn't it!? Tired old pointless debate about how BEV's still have an impact, of course they do. The bottom line is its a lesser overall impact and an obvious evolution of what a car is.
I really am so worn out on that point right now that I don't welcome a movement to make that same point once again. It's become very obvious that those that don't like the idea of electric cars will focus on any and every negative aspect other than common sense to denegrate them.
I feel extremely confident that things will only go one way, BEV is that way, and in ten years I suspect the naysayers will be absent from such discussions.
Just out of date, short of comprehension simpletons farting their unfounded opinions into the wind of change
Why push back? I personally couldn't care less if people buy them or not, for whatever reasons they may believe to be true.
I like mine and would be happy to buy another. Convincing people is of little interest to me. I get asked quite a lot in car parks oddly enough but mainly from people thinking of buying and want to hear an honest opinion. I'm happy to oblige but have no time for colleagues etc who go out of their way to tell me my car isn't green or blah, blah, blah.
I like mine and would be happy to buy another. Convincing people is of little interest to me. I get asked quite a lot in car parks oddly enough but mainly from people thinking of buying and want to hear an honest opinion. I'm happy to oblige but have no time for colleagues etc who go out of their way to tell me my car isn't green or blah, blah, blah.
Who will be the first mainstream manufacturer to step up and say that the future of EVs lies in increasing range and reducing physical size rather than in chasing 0-60 and BHP?
SUVs are becoming the norm because of the skateboard architecture (for CoG) and everything else having to sit on top of that, but it's not the answer.
SUVs are becoming the norm because of the skateboard architecture (for CoG) and everything else having to sit on top of that, but it's not the answer.
Completely unnecessary. There are only a handful of loonies that are genuinely 'anti-EV' as opposed to waiting until EVs are right for them. Those loonies are no worse than the 'pro-EV' weirdos that can't cope with hearing anything negative about their latest obsession. They cancel each other out and nobody bases their buying decisions on either of their opinions anyway.
anonymous said:
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I think I've been honest from day one. Electrification makes cars better, of course it does. Why power a car via thousands of explosions per minute when the simplicity of a battery and motor arrangement is viable..??.I think the charging requirement is not a problem for most early adopters but I'm also aware some people can't make it work - but this people are in the minority and work is being done to make it work for them, it's not as if there is a y urgency to switch for those if can't work for 'today'.
Overall I genuinely believe there is more of an unjustified 'push back' mentality than there is a push from happy adopters. It feels very much like a battle - it should not.
anonymous said:
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Good point, but I think the numbers of these people are relatively small compared to the sheer number of people who have written terrible articles or posted YouTube videos. The amount of negative press is overwhelming. So much so I don't even bother with anything that starts with, "the truth about........" or some other nonsense.I always tell people EV's can be a royal pain in the backside, but with a huge caveat that they're bloody marvellous if you can adapt and fit one into your life. For me, the occasional inconvenience is worth it. Perhaps not for everyone else.
EVguy nails it with the charging infrastructure comment. it's not the 'charge in 10 mins' bit that's the main issue, although we need more of them. it's the destination charging that's lacking. 3 - 7Kw chargers everywhere.
we're heading up to a lodge park in scotland in a few weeks. no charging capability onsite and there's 80 odd lodges. madness.
we're heading up to a lodge park in scotland in a few weeks. no charging capability onsite and there's 80 odd lodges. madness.
anonymous said:
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And if the car is a realistic size, then that would be possible. One of the reasons given for the increasing size of cars is crash protection, but as 'self driving' becomes more common, the need to that will reduce and then cars can start to get smaller Except we have a status thing of "Big car = big wallet", and it's neither the task, nor the responsibility of car manufacturers to change that. Which is a concern.
Doofus said:
And if the car is a realistic size, then that would be possible.
One of the reasons given for the increasing size of cars is crash protection, but as 'self driving' becomes more common, the need to that will reduce and then cars can start to get smaller Except we have a status thing of "Big car = big wallet", and it's neither the task, nor the responsibility of car manufacturers to change that. Which is a concern.
I wished they'd kept developing the i3. If they squished it a bit and gave it a wider track, smaller wheels and put in a 50kW battery with higher voltage, I think 200 miles would be possible.One of the reasons given for the increasing size of cars is crash protection, but as 'self driving' becomes more common, the need to that will reduce and then cars can start to get smaller Except we have a status thing of "Big car = big wallet", and it's neither the task, nor the responsibility of car manufacturers to change that. Which is a concern.
My pet peeve with EV is how heavy they all seem to be. That's ok in some instances but the smaller ones, like my i3s need to be low mass, economic, zippy etc.
anonymous said:
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It's possible that is true though for a specific owner? As an example in 4 years and 60k miles of EV ownership I've never had to queue for a charger once or arrived to find a charger broken. It does happen of course, but it isn't a universal truth and will depend on when and where you travel.tamore said:
just watched a fully charged youtube video where dan caesar (sp), rob llewellyn and quentin wilson discussed setting up a body to pushback against EV/ electrification misinformation under the stop burning stuff banner.
we see the same old twaddle trotted out on PH in the EV related threads, with the latest high profile one being the rowan atkinson piece. will be interesting to see how effective they can be.
Aren't there already enough threads where EVers and ICEers are throttling one another? Nobody is going to be able to convince the other. we see the same old twaddle trotted out on PH in the EV related threads, with the latest high profile one being the rowan atkinson piece. will be interesting to see how effective they can be.
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