Ionic 5 N Prototype. This sounds like fun.
Discussion
Hammersia said:
They've certainly taken the ideas I proposed for the electric Caterham gearshift etc. 18 months ago and run with them.
Sorry but we beat you to it about 10 years ago at Lotushttps://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lotus/evora/60642/lo...
This was always going to happen. Fun cars build brands and add worth, EV's were always destined to become fun by design in certain guises once the basic technology was sorted out and the more vanilla cars sold to the masses that just wanted a family crossover car.
I think the key thing to understand is that the simplicity of EV doesn't require much driver input over the control of the (often significant) power available. But just because that control isn't strictly required, never meant such control couldn't be handed back to the driver. And now here, as with the EV6 GT and a few other cars, you can adapt the car to how you want to use the power and how you wish to control it.
BMW have done the same sort of thing with the i4, if you put it in sport boost and disable the TC it lumps power to the back and you can exit a roundabout sideways - which is a weird experience in a car that is electric thus qiuet and silky smooth - but it's actually quite a challenge to control the immense and immediate power, it brings back genuine driver challenge and involvement. In an ICE car I used to snap the car back into line by dipping the clutch and selecting the next gear - but you can't do that in an EV, you can't break the mechanical connection so you have to reign the rear in by modulating the power through the pedal. That's every bit as involved as a driver as stirring a gearbox was in ICE.
The first generation of EV's ignored that kind of thing and focused on maintaining traction no matter what sort of mentalist was behind the wheel. But now.. the fun creeps back in. No car maker wants a zero fun reputation. Except Peugeot, obviously.
I think the key thing to understand is that the simplicity of EV doesn't require much driver input over the control of the (often significant) power available. But just because that control isn't strictly required, never meant such control couldn't be handed back to the driver. And now here, as with the EV6 GT and a few other cars, you can adapt the car to how you want to use the power and how you wish to control it.
BMW have done the same sort of thing with the i4, if you put it in sport boost and disable the TC it lumps power to the back and you can exit a roundabout sideways - which is a weird experience in a car that is electric thus qiuet and silky smooth - but it's actually quite a challenge to control the immense and immediate power, it brings back genuine driver challenge and involvement. In an ICE car I used to snap the car back into line by dipping the clutch and selecting the next gear - but you can't do that in an EV, you can't break the mechanical connection so you have to reign the rear in by modulating the power through the pedal. That's every bit as involved as a driver as stirring a gearbox was in ICE.
The first generation of EV's ignored that kind of thing and focused on maintaining traction no matter what sort of mentalist was behind the wheel. But now.. the fun creeps back in. No car maker wants a zero fun reputation. Except Peugeot, obviously.
I am excited by this. As a family we are committed to EV now as it just makes sense for our particular use case.
But they are extremely dull to drive. The video on the Hyundai web page and the Autocar article make this sound quite compelling.
65k is a bit rich though. That would probably be upcoming Macan EV territory.
But they are extremely dull to drive. The video on the Hyundai web page and the Autocar article make this sound quite compelling.
65k is a bit rich though. That would probably be upcoming Macan EV territory.
It's interesting as Hyundai seems to be saying that they think the last group to be convinced about EVs are what might be referred to as 'motoring enthusiasts'. This is their first stab at it.
Can't exactly call it a hot hatch, 2 tonnes of it ffs, and the price seems a bit rich, but then again these days we're looking at 30k plus for cooking B and C class vehicles that are reasonably well equipped, not even top spec either.
I'm impressed where these guys have come from, early models were a bit of a joke, but even drive a Hyundai i10 ICE and it's a perfectly reasonable proposition. Some will sneer, and tbh it wouldn't suit me, but only because not the package or design of vehicle that suits use case, not for any other reason. 5 Yr warranty too.
Can't exactly call it a hot hatch, 2 tonnes of it ffs, and the price seems a bit rich, but then again these days we're looking at 30k plus for cooking B and C class vehicles that are reasonably well equipped, not even top spec either.
I'm impressed where these guys have come from, early models were a bit of a joke, but even drive a Hyundai i10 ICE and it's a perfectly reasonable proposition. Some will sneer, and tbh it wouldn't suit me, but only because not the package or design of vehicle that suits use case, not for any other reason. 5 Yr warranty too.
"But having driven it extensively on road and track, I can tell you that Hyundai’s N division, currently the maker of the world’s most engaging hot hatches, has taken to the electric era with the same commitment and provided the most fun – and, as crucially, excitement – that I’ve ever had in an EV. Plus a bit more."
Not knocking Hyundai or their N Division, but I'm not sure this is totally accurate (as good as the i30N/i20N might be)...
Not knocking Hyundai or their N Division, but I'm not sure this is totally accurate (as good as the i30N/i20N might be)...
Edited by M.F.D on Saturday 1st July 10:15
The Wookie said:
Hammersia said:
They've certainly taken the ideas I proposed for the electric Caterham gearshift etc. 18 months ago and run with them.
Sorry but we beat you to it about 10 years ago at Lotushttps://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lotus/evora/60642/lo...
The thing I am really interested to see, or hear rather, is what all these synthetic ICE sounds sound like. I don't think I've heard a convincing one yet and I wonder whether it will ever happen. I think whoever cracks that particularly nut, will be on to a nice little earner. At least some of the problem comes from not feeling the sound. When you're accelerating hard in an ICE car you feel it as well as hear it and you need both to make it convincing.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th July 15:08
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th July 15:10
Otispunkmeyer said:
Toyota patented having a proper clutch and 6-speed shifter, all with haptic feedback, for an EV. They've already got their steering by wire system into a Lexus, so next up its a force-feedback clutch pedal and a mechanical shifter. I wonder whether they'll program in a "notchy" gearbox mode where you need to pump the clutch a few times and really yank the lever to get into gear
The thing I am really interested to see, or hear rather, is what all these synthetic ICE sounds sound like. I don't think I've heard a convincing one yet and I wonder whether it will ever happen. I think whoever cracks that particularly nut, will be on to a nice little earner. At least some of the problem comes from not feeling the sound. When you're accelerating hard in an ICE car you feel it as well as hear it and you need both to make it convincing.
Interesting but you do have to ask yourself why The thing I am really interested to see, or hear rather, is what all these synthetic ICE sounds sound like. I don't think I've heard a convincing one yet and I wonder whether it will ever happen. I think whoever cracks that particularly nut, will be on to a nice little earner. At least some of the problem comes from not feeling the sound. When you're accelerating hard in an ICE car you feel it as well as hear it and you need both to make it convincing.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th July 15:08
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th July 15:10
Yeah to be fair that engine noise emulation system we had on the 414 sounded like an 80's arcade game
Thinking about it now it did have a sci-fi jetsons type option on it which in hindsight sounded a lot like the cringy 'Porsche Sport Sound' or whatever it's called on the Taycan
The Wookie said:
Interesting but you do have to ask yourself why
....
Quite.....
Makes you wonder why nobody bothered putting fake advance and retard controls on the steering wheels of Scorpios, or purposefully made their gearboxes feel s
t in a bid to bring back that 30s feel.EVs are different. They should play to their strengths without the daftness.
Would be far better to spend all that R&D on making them lighter, or doing ore with the suspension systems.
Murph7355 said:
....
EVs are different. They should play to their strengths without the daftness.
Would be far better to spend all that R&D on making them lighter, or doing ore with the suspension systems.
Indeed. If you make a Golf sized EV that weighs the same and has the same performance as a Golf GTi then it will be more fun than just being yet another EV-supercar doing 0-60 in 3secs.EVs are different. They should play to their strengths without the daftness.
Would be far better to spend all that R&D on making them lighter, or doing ore with the suspension systems.
Truckosaurus said:
Indeed. If you make a Golf sized EV that weighs the same and has the same performance as a Golf GTi then it will be more fun than just being yet another EV-supercar doing 0-60 in 3secs.
Performance is easy with an EV, engagement another thing entirely - they are horrifically dull to drive. Apart from the BMW i3s which is in my opinion still the best packaged and designed EV
Murph7355 said:
Quite.
Makes you wonder why nobody bothered putting fake advance and retard controls on the steering wheels of Scorpios, or purposefully made their gearboxes feel st in a bid to bring back that 30s feel.
EVs are different. They should play to their strengths without the daftness.
Would be far better to spend all that R&D on making them lighter, or doing ore with the suspension systems.
Quite possible to have both you knowMakes you wonder why nobody bothered putting fake advance and retard controls on the steering wheels of Scorpios, or purposefully made their gearboxes feel s
t in a bid to bring back that 30s feel.EVs are different. They should play to their strengths without the daftness.
Would be far better to spend all that R&D on making them lighter, or doing ore with the suspension systems.
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