Why have we not seen an EV with a 3+3 seating configuration?
Discussion
Just a random thought that popped into my head after seeing a Fiat Multipla today and remembering:
1.how properly crazy the design was
2.how clever a 3+3 seat layout is
3.how it's footprint is really no bigger than a normal hatchback
With EVs being packaged with flat floors and no need for any transmission tunnels etc, surely they lend themselves to a 6 seat configuration?
I know everyone wants an SUV (and we have one too) but even that could take advantage of squeezing in an extra seat!
1.how properly crazy the design was
2.how clever a 3+3 seat layout is
3.how it's footprint is really no bigger than a normal hatchback
With EVs being packaged with flat floors and no need for any transmission tunnels etc, surely they lend themselves to a 6 seat configuration?
I know everyone wants an SUV (and we have one too) but even that could take advantage of squeezing in an extra seat!
The two three-across MPVs I recall (Fiat Multipla and Honda Stream) were never big sellers (being FWD they had flat floors and minimal drivetrain intrusion, much like EVs). I can only assume that three-across seating doesn’t work for European sized cars when you consider seat designs and the want for personal space. And who knows, maybe NCAP testing? It would probably work for the US market, mind (think American classics with bench seats!).
We had a Honda FRV for a long while, and I really looked for something with the same seating plan to replace it, but nothing existed (I couldn't afford a Defender at that point).
Whilst it was great practicality-wise, since I've bought a car with a more normal layout, I've really noticed that feels much easier to drive: I suspect some of it is the fact that I am not right up against the door, view blocked by the a-pillar.
Whilst it was great practicality-wise, since I've bought a car with a more normal layout, I've really noticed that feels much easier to drive: I suspect some of it is the fact that I am not right up against the door, view blocked by the a-pillar.
No.
Who wants to have an extra seat 'squeezed' in the front?
Not me.
And neither myself nor my wife are exactly big across the shoulders.
Big car for long distances, you want a bit of space in the front.
Making it wider means less range per kWh.
Small market for local journeys for excessively large families?
Most of whom are not going to afford a big new EV.
Who wants to have an extra seat 'squeezed' in the front?
Not me.
And neither myself nor my wife are exactly big across the shoulders.
Big car for long distances, you want a bit of space in the front.
Making it wider means less range per kWh.
Small market for local journeys for excessively large families?
Most of whom are not going to afford a big new EV.
I had a Multipla and it was brilliant, visibility was superb but the Multipla had huge windows and was built on a wider bespoke platform, rather than the civic based Honda, so it did a better job of the 3 x 3 seating.
It would be nice to see the some 3 x 3 cars again but as others have said side impact protection could be difficult.
It would be nice to see the some 3 x 3 cars again but as others have said side impact protection could be difficult.
OutInTheShed said:
No.
Who wants to have an extra seat 'squeezed' in the front?
Not me.
And neither myself nor my wife are exactly big across the shoulders.
Big car for long distances, you want a bit of space in the front.
Making it wider means less range per kWh.
Small market for local journeys for excessively large families?
Most of whom are not going to afford a big new EV.
I never felt squeezed in my Multipla, the middle seat could slide back to give more shoulder room and it was very wide inside, being able to carry six people and their luggage without somebody stuck in the boot was great and also better from a rear impact perspective.Who wants to have an extra seat 'squeezed' in the front?
Not me.
And neither myself nor my wife are exactly big across the shoulders.
Big car for long distances, you want a bit of space in the front.
Making it wider means less range per kWh.
Small market for local journeys for excessively large families?
Most of whom are not going to afford a big new EV.
Little or no market for it + the fact that the middle front seat is only useful for small children as the picture above shows and do you really want one sat in the front with you from a practicality and safety perspective?
1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
MPV of any layout is hardly a popular car these days, most former buyers now go for SUVs - admittedly less practical but also less... Beige.
In the end EV's will exist to fill all niches, including the Mumsnet mobile, and the OP is right that it should be easier to package the third seat with no gear shift or transmission tunnel etc.
But right now the manufacturers can't make EV's as fast as people want to buy them so they would be daft to bother on niche solutions when they can can sell EV SUV's to a much broader market that will pay more.
In the end EV's will exist to fill all niches, including the Mumsnet mobile, and the OP is right that it should be easier to package the third seat with no gear shift or transmission tunnel etc.
But right now the manufacturers can't make EV's as fast as people want to buy them so they would be daft to bother on niche solutions when they can can sell EV SUV's to a much broader market that will pay more.
SWoll said:
Little or no market for it + the fact that the middle front seat is only useful for small children as the picture above shows and do you really want one sat in the front with you from a practicality and safety perspective?
1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
The seats are all the same size, lots of people have 3 or 4 children so there is certainly demand for cars with more than five seats. 1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
I did 90k miles in one with 3 children and it was great.
Neill-l9qpf said:
Just a random thought that popped into my head after seeing a Fiat Multipla today and remembering:
1.how properly crazy the design was
2.how clever a 3+3 seat layout is
3.how it's footprint is really no bigger than a normal hatchback
With EVs being packaged with flat floors and no need for any transmission tunnels etc, surely they lend themselves to a 6 seat configuration?
I know everyone wants an SUV (and we have one too) but even that could take advantage of squeezing in an extra seat!
It would be next to impossible to meet crash test safety standards nowadays with three across the front.1.how properly crazy the design was
2.how clever a 3+3 seat layout is
3.how it's footprint is really no bigger than a normal hatchback
With EVs being packaged with flat floors and no need for any transmission tunnels etc, surely they lend themselves to a 6 seat configuration?
I know everyone wants an SUV (and we have one too) but even that could take advantage of squeezing in an extra seat!
Pooh said:
I never felt squeezed in my Multipla, the middle seat could slide back to give more shoulder room and it was very wide inside, being able to carry six people and their luggage without somebody stuck in the boot was great and also better from a rear impact perspective.
That's a lot of denim there... Teddys too.Pooh said:
SWoll said:
Little or no market for it + the fact that the middle front seat is only useful for small children as the picture above shows and do you really want one sat in the front with you from a practicality and safety perspective?
1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
The seats are all the same size, lots of people have 3 or 4 children so there is certainly demand for cars with more than five seats. 1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
I did 90k miles in one with 3 children and it was great.
And in the grand scheme of things there really aren't all that many families with 4 children in 2023, and there are many cars that can cope with 3 across the back should that be the count anyway?
archie456 said:
JD said:
It would be next to impossible to meet crash test safety standards nowadays with three across the front.
Why, given that 3 in the rear seats is ok?It can obviously be done but is a headache that most manufacturers don't want to be bothered with for such a limited market I'd guess.
SWoll said:
Pooh said:
SWoll said:
Little or no market for it + the fact that the middle front seat is only useful for small children as the picture above shows and do you really want one sat in the front with you from a practicality and safety perspective?
1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
The seats are all the same size, lots of people have 3 or 4 children so there is certainly demand for cars with more than five seats. 1.7 children per family is the average in 2023, falling from 1.9 in 2009.
I did 90k miles in one with 3 children and it was great.
And in the grand scheme of things there really aren't all that many families with 4 children in 2023, and there are many cars that can cope with 3 across the back should that be the count anyway?
There were lots of advantages to the 3 x 3 layout even with 3 children:
The centre seat backs fold flat to make table tops, this allows you to have one child each side in the back with a table between them and another in the front which massively reduces fighting.
Alternatively you can have three in the back and a table top in the front.
We sometimes took the rear centre seat out and the dog sat there giving more boot space.
We had an extra seat for a friend or family member.
Nobody ever had to sit in the boot, be left out of the conversation and vulnerable to rear impacts.
With regard to safety, the airbags were set up to protect all the front seat passengers.
There are plenty of families with 3 or 4 children so there is a market for cars like this.
The Multipla was the Top Gear family car of the year for four years in a row for good reasons.
Do you have any experience of a Multipla or do you just have strongly held opinions on a subject you know nothing about?
Edited by Pooh on Thursday 20th April 16:12
Pooh said:
I didn't say that the seats where narrow, I never measured them and compared then to another car but they didn't seem narrow to me. The Multipla is wide and this allows 3 proper seats to fit across it, one of the advantages was the ability to easily fit two car seats and a booster set across the back, this is why I replaced my Alfa 155 V6 with one.
There were lots of advantages to the 3 x 3 layout even with 3 children:
The centre seat backs fold flat to make table tops, this allows you to have one child each side in the back with a table between them and another in the front which massively reduces fighting.
Alternatively you can have three in the back and a table top in the front.
We sometimes took the rear centre seat out and the dog sat there giving more boot space.
We had an extra seat for a friend or family member.
Nobody ever had to sit in the boot, be left out of the conversation and vulnerable to rear impacts.
With regard to safety, the airbags were set up to protect all the front seat passengers.
There are plenty of families with 3 or 4 children so there is a market for cars like this.
The Multipla was the Top Gear family car of the year for four years in a row for good reasons.
Do you have any experience of a Multipla or do you just have strongly held opinions on a subject you know nothing about?
Fiat stopped making the Multipla 13 years ago, so as much as TG liked it that clearly didn't help sales all that much?There were lots of advantages to the 3 x 3 layout even with 3 children:
The centre seat backs fold flat to make table tops, this allows you to have one child each side in the back with a table between them and another in the front which massively reduces fighting.
Alternatively you can have three in the back and a table top in the front.
We sometimes took the rear centre seat out and the dog sat there giving more boot space.
We had an extra seat for a friend or family member.
Nobody ever had to sit in the boot, be left out of the conversation and vulnerable to rear impacts.
With regard to safety, the airbags were set up to protect all the front seat passengers.
There are plenty of families with 3 or 4 children so there is a market for cars like this.
The Multipla was the Top Gear family car of the year for four years in a row for good reasons.
Do you have any experience of a Multipla or do you just have strongly held opinions on a subject you know nothing about?
Edited by Pooh on Thursday 20th April 16:12
Drove one on holiday many years ago for 2 weeks with 2 young kids (2005?). The seats are 100% narrower than in a similarly sized alternative and you also sit very close to the doors in the front, I am pretty tall and broad shouldered so perhaps more noticeable to me? Our current etron is a wider car than the multipla but the centre rear seat is clearly narrower than the 2 outer seats and no way would you fit a third seat in the front row. That's modern safety requirements for you.
Families with 3 kids don't need a 6 seater car. 4 kids yes, but there are very few families of that size to justify designing a car for them in 2023. A 3rd row of seats in a 7 seater has become the norm as safer and even more practical.
If there was a market and it was straightforward to pass safety tests then you can be assured plenty of manufacturers would be doing it. They aren't, hence the thread.
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