Discussion
As someone who is yet to be convinced by BEV but who at the same time has an extremely sore arse from sitting on the fence wondering, there was only one real solution. That solution was collected yesterday in the shape of a Chester blue electric Mii. It's a '20 plate ex VAG car that SEAT have added 2 further years warranty to (plus the usual 8 yr battery one).
Some good old fashioned haggling (remember that?) was completed last Saturday netting £750 off the asking bringing it to quite close to supermarket prices, 2 new Continental tyres for the front due to slight feathering on the outside edges of the originals, the best of these has been retained as a spare and still has a good 6/7 mm tread, a 3 pin plug charger (the proper lead is still nib), new blades all round and a 'service' (brake fluid change).
Drove it the 30 miles home, did some faffing around connecting phone etc whilst the 13amp plug did its thing for an hour or so and then me and Mrs Sticky tootled about locally for an hour playing with the regen settings.
Conclusion? So far so good. We have no intentions of trying to reach Lands End in it, it will only be charged at home and its dog simple to use unlike others we tried that were simply too try hard & look at me. Fully charged it last night and its only showing 128 miles rather than 160 that most suggest but it is cold (4/5 deg) so that may be the cause. Onwards!
Some good old fashioned haggling (remember that?) was completed last Saturday netting £750 off the asking bringing it to quite close to supermarket prices, 2 new Continental tyres for the front due to slight feathering on the outside edges of the originals, the best of these has been retained as a spare and still has a good 6/7 mm tread, a 3 pin plug charger (the proper lead is still nib), new blades all round and a 'service' (brake fluid change).
Drove it the 30 miles home, did some faffing around connecting phone etc whilst the 13amp plug did its thing for an hour or so and then me and Mrs Sticky tootled about locally for an hour playing with the regen settings.
Conclusion? So far so good. We have no intentions of trying to reach Lands End in it, it will only be charged at home and its dog simple to use unlike others we tried that were simply too try hard & look at me. Fully charged it last night and its only showing 128 miles rather than 160 that most suggest but it is cold (4/5 deg) so that may be the cause. Onwards!
Cheers chap, didn't see any point I paying 2-3 grand more for a V dub that's exactly the same and you have to be careful with the Skodas as lots are low spec non rapid charge.
Took it out this afternoon, ambient had increased to 7 deg and the proposed range showed 131 miles. 3 up 20 mile drive to St Andrews with lots of varying limits including some 70 dual & 50 country roads. Arrived St Andrews still showing 130 range. Same return journey except a quick visit to the golden hoops of joy drive thru and we were left with 114 miles range after 41 miles.
Clearly the range-o-meter needs to sort itself out but level 2 on the regen seems the most natural coming from manual petrol with a little bit of B downhills/faster speeds. Happy so far!
Took it out this afternoon, ambient had increased to 7 deg and the proposed range showed 131 miles. 3 up 20 mile drive to St Andrews with lots of varying limits including some 70 dual & 50 country roads. Arrived St Andrews still showing 130 range. Same return journey except a quick visit to the golden hoops of joy drive thru and we were left with 114 miles range after 41 miles.
Clearly the range-o-meter needs to sort itself out but level 2 on the regen seems the most natural coming from manual petrol with a little bit of B downhills/faster speeds. Happy so far!
Good choice - a great example of where an EV drivetrain makes a car night and day better. Just imagine how sluggish, unresponsive and unrefined a Mii with a 1.0 petrol would be.
No wonder a number of manufacturers are going all in on EV quite a bit sooner than they need to legislatively - you wouldn't want to be stuck with old school ICE / hybrid models when your competitors go EV and people like yourself cotton onto just how good EVs are as everyday transport.
No wonder a number of manufacturers are going all in on EV quite a bit sooner than they need to legislatively - you wouldn't want to be stuck with old school ICE / hybrid models when your competitors go EV and people like yourself cotton onto just how good EVs are as everyday transport.
Hooligan No.1 had a petrol 1.0 Mii as first car so we have a very good barometer of where to base this one. To be honest, the wee 1.0 litre was absolutely fine, struggled to give less than 50mpg even with a teenager behind the wheel and insurance was more than acceptable. The electric one is of course more refined and far torquier but (!) herein lies the rub.
The petrol one cost £2000 to buy and the insurance excess was much less even as a new driver compared to the rip off compulsory excess "because its electric" crap that I discovered a few days ago.
IF the world does want to go this way then it needs to make it far more affordable for everyone in all aspects. Cars like the Mii should still be made, but of course far more profit in Cupras', IDs' & so on. Yes they are bigger fancier cars with longer ranges but the cheapest I could find was almost double the Mii purchase price and that is where in my view it all starts to go wrong in this market.
Just checked and even in todays cold temps it is reporting 5.3 miles/Kwh average which is fine by me. Still gently charging it on the 3 pin and the range is now showing just short of 150 miles which is more like it!
The petrol one cost £2000 to buy and the insurance excess was much less even as a new driver compared to the rip off compulsory excess "because its electric" crap that I discovered a few days ago.
IF the world does want to go this way then it needs to make it far more affordable for everyone in all aspects. Cars like the Mii should still be made, but of course far more profit in Cupras', IDs' & so on. Yes they are bigger fancier cars with longer ranges but the cheapest I could find was almost double the Mii purchase price and that is where in my view it all starts to go wrong in this market.
Just checked and even in todays cold temps it is reporting 5.3 miles/Kwh average which is fine by me. Still gently charging it on the 3 pin and the range is now showing just short of 150 miles which is more like it!
Good results.
I'm also finding it strange that EVs are not having to quote efficiencies like miles / kWh as some sort a comparison between them, similar to mpg. There seems to be a fixation on range and time to charge, as well as the usual 0-60. It doesn't matter if an EV charges superfast if it only does about 2 miles / kWh!
I'm also finding it strange that EVs are not having to quote efficiencies like miles / kWh as some sort a comparison between them, similar to mpg. There seems to be a fixation on range and time to charge, as well as the usual 0-60. It doesn't matter if an EV charges superfast if it only does about 2 miles / kWh!
stickylabels said:
Hooligan No.1 had a petrol 1.0 Mii as first car so we have a very good barometer of where to base this one. To be honest, the wee 1.0 litre was absolutely fine, struggled to give less than 50mpg even with a teenager behind the wheel and insurance was more than acceptable. The electric one is of course more refined and far torquier but (!) herein lies the rub.
The petrol one cost £2000 to buy and the insurance excess was much less even as a new driver compared to the rip off compulsory excess "because its electric" crap that I discovered a few days ago.
IF the world does want to go this way then it needs to make it far more affordable for everyone in all aspects. Cars like the Mii should still be made, but of course far more profit in Cupras', IDs' & so on. Yes they are bigger fancier cars with longer ranges but the cheapest I could find was almost double the Mii purchase price and that is where in my view it all starts to go wrong in this market.
Just checked and even in todays cold temps it is reporting 5.3 miles/Kwh average which is fine by me. Still gently charging it on the 3 pin and the range is now showing just short of 150 miles which is more like it!
5.3 is excellent. These do seem to be reporting good efficiency figures.The petrol one cost £2000 to buy and the insurance excess was much less even as a new driver compared to the rip off compulsory excess "because its electric" crap that I discovered a few days ago.
IF the world does want to go this way then it needs to make it far more affordable for everyone in all aspects. Cars like the Mii should still be made, but of course far more profit in Cupras', IDs' & so on. Yes they are bigger fancier cars with longer ranges but the cheapest I could find was almost double the Mii purchase price and that is where in my view it all starts to go wrong in this market.
Just checked and even in todays cold temps it is reporting 5.3 miles/Kwh average which is fine by me. Still gently charging it on the 3 pin and the range is now showing just short of 150 miles which is more like it!
sixor8 said:
Good results.
I'm also finding it strange that EVs are not having to quote efficiencies like miles / kWh as some sort a comparison between them, similar to mpg. There seems to be a fixation on range and time to charge, as well as the usual 0-60. It doesn't matter if an EV charges superfast if it only does about 2 miles / kWh!
Paying for petrol in litres and showing fuel economy in gallons always pissed me off. I hope they stick to miles per kWh.I'm also finding it strange that EVs are not having to quote efficiencies like miles / kWh as some sort a comparison between them, similar to mpg. There seems to be a fixation on range and time to charge, as well as the usual 0-60. It doesn't matter if an EV charges superfast if it only does about 2 miles / kWh!
I've long championed the WV E-Up (or VW 'hello', if you're northern), which is basically the same car of course.
Mrs Deuce had the original Up with the more powerful 75hp engine which was easily enough power for such a small town car. I was very impressed with it vs stuff like the Aygo, because the VW felt like an actual car, it felt solid and weighted - not like a buggy with a roof.
A couple of years back I took a quick drive of and electric Up and it was most certainly a very good car made even better. It was marginally faster 0-60 I think but that's irrelevant for a town car. The important stat was 0-30, I have no idea what the actual figures are but with it's big lump of EV torque the E-up felt about twice as quick off the line as our old petrol version, which is absolutely what you want in a town car if you want to dart into a gap at a busy roundabout etc.
And whilst the Up/Mii were always very civilised and comfortable by town car standards, the electrification makes them very smooth and quiet too. Sure, they cost a fair bit more but... you're definitely getting more in return. Besides, you will buy and eventually sell the car, you'll only suffer a relatively small part of the original extra cost as extra depreciation in that time. A shame about the insurance but you'll also save a chunk on running costs, not just 'fuel' but also brakes, servicing and tax.
Enjoy!
Mrs Deuce had the original Up with the more powerful 75hp engine which was easily enough power for such a small town car. I was very impressed with it vs stuff like the Aygo, because the VW felt like an actual car, it felt solid and weighted - not like a buggy with a roof.
A couple of years back I took a quick drive of and electric Up and it was most certainly a very good car made even better. It was marginally faster 0-60 I think but that's irrelevant for a town car. The important stat was 0-30, I have no idea what the actual figures are but with it's big lump of EV torque the E-up felt about twice as quick off the line as our old petrol version, which is absolutely what you want in a town car if you want to dart into a gap at a busy roundabout etc.
And whilst the Up/Mii were always very civilised and comfortable by town car standards, the electrification makes them very smooth and quiet too. Sure, they cost a fair bit more but... you're definitely getting more in return. Besides, you will buy and eventually sell the car, you'll only suffer a relatively small part of the original extra cost as extra depreciation in that time. A shame about the insurance but you'll also save a chunk on running costs, not just 'fuel' but also brakes, servicing and tax.
Enjoy!
I have a whinge! The headlight bulbs are of the single candle lamp 1 watt yellow nonsense...Now I appreciate its (supposed) to be a cheap car and expensive (power saving!) LEDs may not have been doable, but a pair of 1/2 decent white bulbs couldn't have been beyond them surely?
In regard to running costs, I am not convinced that it will be any cheaper to run/maintain or will hold its value any better ( I have bought this not leased it) than a petrol equivalent. However, the only way to verify this is to try it and genuinely confirm one way or the other. We bought a '20 plate Fiesta ST 1 year ago and it does the bulk of the daily duties/miles/school run work etc. Once the Zappi is installed over the next few weeks hopefully then the Mii will start to take on the bulk of the work the Fiesta currently does and then we shall begin to get a true cost picture between 2 cars that are the same age, cost similar amount to buy and so on. Insurance on the Fiesta is less, you have to try to get under 40 mpg (3 cylinders, cylinder deactivation, gas particulate filter) and it will travel an easy 350 miles between fill ups. Costs wise, yes road tax @£165 but an oil & filter change was < £100.
If the sun ever shines again up here then the Mii will benefit from our solar system to help balance things but a supplied/installed Zappi is going to be £1000 - ish and that has to be taken into account for overall costs. The 3 pin plug that I like using is too slow if we are to use the Mii as per the Fiesta. Anything else maintenance wise tyres/brakes/suspension bushes should be fairly even.
Now, only time and usage is going to give a genuine answer to this and that is why I bought the Mii. Most things I read have too much bias one way or the other, this will give me a definite answer.
In regard to running costs, I am not convinced that it will be any cheaper to run/maintain or will hold its value any better ( I have bought this not leased it) than a petrol equivalent. However, the only way to verify this is to try it and genuinely confirm one way or the other. We bought a '20 plate Fiesta ST 1 year ago and it does the bulk of the daily duties/miles/school run work etc. Once the Zappi is installed over the next few weeks hopefully then the Mii will start to take on the bulk of the work the Fiesta currently does and then we shall begin to get a true cost picture between 2 cars that are the same age, cost similar amount to buy and so on. Insurance on the Fiesta is less, you have to try to get under 40 mpg (3 cylinders, cylinder deactivation, gas particulate filter) and it will travel an easy 350 miles between fill ups. Costs wise, yes road tax @£165 but an oil & filter change was < £100.
If the sun ever shines again up here then the Mii will benefit from our solar system to help balance things but a supplied/installed Zappi is going to be £1000 - ish and that has to be taken into account for overall costs. The 3 pin plug that I like using is too slow if we are to use the Mii as per the Fiesta. Anything else maintenance wise tyres/brakes/suspension bushes should be fairly even.
Now, only time and usage is going to give a genuine answer to this and that is why I bought the Mii. Most things I read have too much bias one way or the other, this will give me a definite answer.
Richyboy said:
sixor8 said:
Good results.
I'm also finding it strange that EVs are not having to quote efficiencies like miles / kWh as some sort a comparison between them, similar to mpg. There seems to be a fixation on range and time to charge, as well as the usual 0-60. It doesn't matter if an EV charges superfast if it only does about 2 miles / kWh!
Paying for petrol in litres and showing fuel economy in gallons always pissed me off. I hope they stick to miles per kWh.I'm also finding it strange that EVs are not having to quote efficiencies like miles / kWh as some sort a comparison between them, similar to mpg. There seems to be a fixation on range and time to charge, as well as the usual 0-60. It doesn't matter if an EV charges superfast if it only does about 2 miles / kWh!
I use 10 as a guide for small cars as it's 45.4 mpg.My point is that if you look at all the EVs for sale on Autotrader, there is no mention of any vehicles efficiency, i.e. miles / kWh. Only power, range and charging times. The manufacturers state it (I think) so why not put that in as well?
sixor8 said:
I've got so used to multiplying miles / litre by 4.54 I'm used to it. I use 10 as a guide for small cars as it's 45.4 mpg.
My point is that if you look at all the EVs for sale on Autotrader, there is no mention of any vehicles efficiency, i.e. miles / kWh. Only power, range and charging times. The manufacturers state it (I think) so why not put that in as well?
I agree. The above should be used as an efficiency thing, like mpg. The battery size, range and charging time tells us nothing about that. I use 10 as a guide for small cars as it's 45.4 mpg.My point is that if you look at all the EVs for sale on Autotrader, there is no mention of any vehicles efficiency, i.e. miles / kWh. Only power, range and charging times. The manufacturers state it (I think) so why not put that in as well?
stickylabels said:
I have a whinge! The headlight bulbs are of the single candle lamp 1 watt yellow nonsense...Now I appreciate its (supposed) to be a cheap car and expensive (power saving!) LEDs may not have been doable, but a pair of 1/2 decent white bulbs couldn't have been beyond them surely?
In regard to running costs, I am not convinced that it will be any cheaper to run/maintain or will hold its value any better ( I have bought this not leased it) than a petrol equivalent. However, the only way to verify this is to try it and genuinely confirm one way or the other. We bought a '20 plate Fiesta ST 1 year ago and it does the bulk of the daily duties/miles/school run work etc. Once the Zappi is installed over the next few weeks hopefully then the Mii will start to take on the bulk of the work the Fiesta currently does and then we shall begin to get a true cost picture between 2 cars that are the same age, cost similar amount to buy and so on. Insurance on the Fiesta is less, you have to try to get under 40 mpg (3 cylinders, cylinder deactivation, gas particulate filter) and it will travel an easy 350 miles between fill ups. Costs wise, yes road tax @£165 but an oil & filter change was < £100.
If the sun ever shines again up here then the Mii will benefit from our solar system to help balance things but a supplied/installed Zappi is going to be £1000 - ish and that has to be taken into account for overall costs. The 3 pin plug that I like using is too slow if we are to use the Mii as per the Fiesta. Anything else maintenance wise tyres/brakes/suspension bushes should be fairly even.
Now, only time and usage is going to give a genuine answer to this and that is why I bought the Mii. Most things I read have too much bias one way or the other, this will give me a definite answer.
We (well, my wife) had a Mk 7 Golf 1.4Tsi manual, then a mk 7.5 e-Golf, and then a mk 7.5 Golf 1.5Tsi manual. For me, the cost side of things pales into an insignificance in comparison to the improvement in driving experience. This is what I'd assumed you'd find as night an day benefit of the EV Mii over the petrol. I found it so frustrating to drive petrol again after the instant response and 'throttle' precision of the EV along with the regen braking giving that extra dimension of control.In regard to running costs, I am not convinced that it will be any cheaper to run/maintain or will hold its value any better ( I have bought this not leased it) than a petrol equivalent. However, the only way to verify this is to try it and genuinely confirm one way or the other. We bought a '20 plate Fiesta ST 1 year ago and it does the bulk of the daily duties/miles/school run work etc. Once the Zappi is installed over the next few weeks hopefully then the Mii will start to take on the bulk of the work the Fiesta currently does and then we shall begin to get a true cost picture between 2 cars that are the same age, cost similar amount to buy and so on. Insurance on the Fiesta is less, you have to try to get under 40 mpg (3 cylinders, cylinder deactivation, gas particulate filter) and it will travel an easy 350 miles between fill ups. Costs wise, yes road tax @£165 but an oil & filter change was < £100.
If the sun ever shines again up here then the Mii will benefit from our solar system to help balance things but a supplied/installed Zappi is going to be £1000 - ish and that has to be taken into account for overall costs. The 3 pin plug that I like using is too slow if we are to use the Mii as per the Fiesta. Anything else maintenance wise tyres/brakes/suspension bushes should be fairly even.
Now, only time and usage is going to give a genuine answer to this and that is why I bought the Mii. Most things I read have too much bias one way or the other, this will give me a definite answer.
We only went back to petrol as the range on the Golf wasn't quite enough for what we needed when daily commuting circumstances changed. Been waiting to get back into an EV and get shot of the petrol Golf again ASAP - her Cupra Born should be with us in a couple of weeks now...
stickylabels said:
I have a whinge! The headlight bulbs are of the single candle lamp 1 watt yellow nonsense...Now I appreciate its (supposed) to be a cheap car and expensive (power saving!) LEDs may not have been doable, but a pair of 1/2 decent white bulbs couldn't have been beyond them surely?
I changed the bulbs to Osram Night Breaker Laser '+150%' on my e-up, as a compromise between improved brightness and longevity. They are definitely whiter than the standard bulbs but not a huge amount brighter when dipped. It seems like the headlights are just aimed a bit low. Main beam on standard bulbs was pretty bright anyway, main beam with the Osrams is really impressive. If you aren't worried about how long they will last maybe give the 200% brighter version a go.
Main moans from me are that the standard tyres are hopeless in the wet, and the handling is very understeery even in the dry. Oh and the vertical rear hatch is permanently filthy in this weather.
Other than that it's brilliant. Properly refined for a small car.
Is there a SEAT equivalent to the VW 'We Connect' app? Getting that up and running was a faff, involving several emails to Wolfsburg. Worth it to be able to set heating / cooling remotely though.
To be fair, a petrol Mii does not compare in that respect to the EV, the ST Fiesta is different in comparison though and far superior. I hope to retain both if I can. The Cupra is indeed interesting, (just watched Johnnie's Late Brake review last night funnily enough), but I'd have to sell both cars to afford and I have never managed to find one single do-it-all car that keeps my interest.
If the Mii can uphold its end of the super eco side then great, that'll keep the miles of the Fiesta for fun and games. Just for extra smarty points, we have sorned the faithful family 5 series wagon for the month to see how the Mii manages!
Good shout on the headlamp bulbs, I'll have look into them.
Cheers
If the Mii can uphold its end of the super eco side then great, that'll keep the miles of the Fiesta for fun and games. Just for extra smarty points, we have sorned the faithful family 5 series wagon for the month to see how the Mii manages!
Good shout on the headlamp bulbs, I'll have look into them.
Cheers
Exactly that Terry, the Honda would have been nice (I looked at i3's too) but the cost was significantly more in either case without any real benefit other than posher. Low temps are still giving range calculations of @130 miles possible and that can only bode well for warmer days. We are getting used to it now and it is just so for all the daft short local journeys when the weather is pants.
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