Why do manufacturers confuse regen with one-pedal-drive?

[kryten22uk]

So this seems to be a common misconception, that regenerative braking is the same thing as one-pedal-drive (OPD), and that is because many manufacturers seem to exclusively bundle the two independent features together. It just doesnt make any sense to me for them to be bundled together with no option to split the features.

In the Polestar however, they do give you the option. They have regen activated all the time, which makes sense, I mean why wouldnt you? This means that whenever you press the brake pedal, the majority of the time, it isnt the actual mechanical brakes that are doing the braking. Instead by pressing the brake pedal, it tells the car to start regen braking, and if this is insufficient (or when stopping standstill) the car will seemlessly move to apply the mechanical brake pads.

Entirely separate to the regen application, Polestar offers you OPD with 3 levels of severity of braking when you release the accelerator. Again, this releasing of the accelerator applies the same regen as if you had pressed the brake pedal.

So, OPD is not regen. OPD is just a driving preference. I guess you could compare it to a typical "sport" mode in an ICE car, whereby the car isnt actually getting any more power, is just a driving preference which quickens throttle response etc.

Its simple physics that you cant generate any more regen when it is activated in any of the levels of OPD mode than when it is activated manually "old-skool" pressing the brake pedal. So to me it just makes sense for the car to use regen via the brake pedal too, not least because some people just can't get used to the OPD driving style (yet)!

Now I dont know which other manufacturers have applied regen to the brake pedal, but most salesmen seem to suggest that regen is only available in other cars as part of a OPD application. That said, this could be down to a lack of understanding?

Anyone know what the other main EV manufacturers do?

[Pooh]

My Zoe has regen through the brake pedal, my Tesla Model Y has conventional brakes and true one pedal driving using regeneration, I prefer the Tesla system because the brakes have a more natural feeling and the one pedal driving is very effective once you get used to it.

[sjg]

Everything I know of does regen when you use the brake pedal.

What you often get some control over is how aggressive the regen is when you lift off the accelerator - some prefer the car to coast along like an ICE auto, some prefer very strong regen.

True "one pedal driving" to my mind means ability to come right down to a stop without touching the brake pedal, like the e-pedal in the Nissan Leaf.

[kryten22uk]

Pooh said:

My Zoe has regen through the brake pedal, my Tesla Model Y has conventional brakes and true one pedal driving using regeneration, I prefer the Tesla system because the brakes have a more natural feeling and the one pedal driving is very effective once you get used to it.

I find the braking in the polestar is very 'natural' feeling. So much so that I never realised it wasnt actually using the mechanical brakes until I decided to read up about it.

[Pooh]

kryten22uk said:

Pooh said:

My Zoe has regen through the brake pedal, my Tesla Model Y has conventional brakes and true one pedal driving using regeneration, I prefer the Tesla system because the brakes have a more natural feeling and the one pedal driving is very effective once you get used to it.

I find the braking in the polestar is very 'natural' feeling. So much so that I never realised it wasnt actually using the mechanical brakes until I decided to read up about it.

The Zoe isn't too bad but you can feel it change when it is coming to a halt and it can make the braking distance harder to predict.
I seldom use the brakes on the Tesla but they work well if I do need them.

[kryten22uk]

Pooh said:

The Zoe isn't too bad but you can feel it change when it is coming to a halt and it can make the braking distance harder to predict.

That sounds terrible. It really is all in the application & software I guess, and shouldnt be rocket science to get smooth.

Pooh said:

I seldom use the brakes on the Tesla but they work well if I do need them.

Yeah, the Polestar even recommends that occasionally you do some heavy braking, to give the mechanical brakes some use and avoid corrosion etc. Not good realising they've reduced optimal effectiveness in a situation when you really need it!

Edited by kryten22uk on Monday 20th February 16:36

[TheDeuce]

yea what people don't seem to understand is that you don't get 'more regen' by increasing the strength of the 'regen'. All you're really doing is increasing the strength of automated braking via regen off throttle. So if you set it to max and lift off the throttle at 30 mph you'll come to a stop within, eg, 30 or so metres. If you set regen to minimum and brake manually in the same scenario at the same rate, the same regen will take place. You're simply activating regen by starting to use the brakes yourself as opposed to the car starting it. All breaking in an EV is regen unless it's heavy braking or the very final pinch to stop the car altogether when the speed is below that required for regen retardation to be effective.

It's the same logic fail as people that think motorway driving is less efficient because the speed is constant and no regen... I've seen a few supposedly dependable road testers make that statement and it's absolute nonsense!

[Mutts]

No way of adjusting the regen level on the i3 but i can drive the 14 mile to work just using the throttle and letting the regen slow the car to stop. This is along 20/30/40 zones with lots of traffic lights. took about 2 hours to get used to just using the throttle and no brake.Would be nice to be able adjust regen as when the car is on full charge, regen is not as aggressive. Even OH has just about got the hang of using only the throttle

[TheDeuce]

Mutts said:

No way of adjusting the regen level on the i3 but i can drive the 14 mile to work just using the throttle and letting the regen slow the car to stop. This is along 20/30/40 zones with lots of traffic lights. took about 2 hours to get used to just using the throttle and no brake.Would be nice to be able adjust regen as when the car is on full charge, regen is not as aggressive. Even OH has just about got the hang of using only the throttle

How have you got the OH to manage one pedal driving!? My god I have tried.. When she first had a go she said she couldn't get used to doing it all with just one foot.. I asked which foot she normally used for braking...

In fairness whilst I found it easy enough (it's just not difficult) I have returned to using the brake pedal myself with regen set to the lowest level. In my EV, in high regen, the moment you come off the throttle it's straight on the regen and it causes the car to pitch forwards, which is OK as a driver expecting it but passengers don't seem to enjoy it!

[phil4]

In my mind, true OPD is where the car can stop properly without me pressing the brake. In my Tesla this is what it does. In the Honda E we had, you have to press a button to turn that mode on.

Both cars do regen, but that in my mind isn't OPD. Realistically from the OPD standpoint I don't care if it's using the brakes or regen to achieve it, provided of course it's not being too wasteful with electrons and brake pads.

I believe VW didn't fit my definition of OPD, they couldn't stop without the user pressing the brake. I'm not sure what others have the same flaw.

[so called]

The Ioniq 5 has adjustable regen braking set by using steering wheel paddles.
Can go from full regen to standstill or free wheeling in 5 steps.
Regen also is active when using the brake pedal.

I've had an i3 and an i3S with the one setting regen which I thought was fine

With the Ioniq 5 I drive most of the time on full regen anyway.
It also has Eco, Normal and Sports modes for adjusting the throttle response.

[Mutts]

TheDeuce said:

How have you got the OH to manage one pedal driving!? My god I have tried.. When she first had a go she said she couldn't get used to doing it all with just one foot.. I asked which foot she normally used for braking...

By nagging her constantly about it and showing her what to watch on the power usage/regen scale

[kryten22uk]

so called said:

The Ioniq 5 has adjustable regen braking set by using steering wheel paddles.
Can go from full regen to standstill or free wheeling in 5 steps.
Regen also is active when using the brake pedal.

Out of interest, does it tell you that you are getting regen with the brake pedal, like on the dashboard or something? Or did you read about it? Reason I ask is that when I test drove the GV60, the salesman said that regen is only via the paddles and when it is in the "off" setting then regen is off. The BMW salesman swore this was also true for the i4. But I cant tell whether the salesmen are just ignorant of the difference between an automatic braking style (OPD) versus regen being on/off or not.

Manufacturers should really make this crystal clear. I mean, its in their favour to advertise how efficient the car is being, without the concept being muddled under the OPD concept. My missus cant do OPD, so advertising upfront that it is also available via the traditional brake pedal would be a marketing advantage.

[anonymous-user]

so called said:

The Ioniq 5 has adjustable regen braking set by using steering wheel paddles.
Can go from full regen to standstill or free wheeling in 5 steps.
Regen also is active when using the brake pedal.

I've had an i3 and an i3S with the one setting regen which I thought was fine

With the Ioniq 5 I drive most of the time on full regen anyway.
It also has Eco, Normal and Sports modes for adjusting the throttle response.

The EV6 GT (which is largely the same of course) does the same, Most of the time I drive in level 4 region, and then when I get to town driving I click it into 5 which also engages i-pedal (KIA's name for 1 pedal driving.)

It's very good, it took me all of a couple of drives to get the hang of it. At first it takes some nerve and judgement but you soon get the feel for how to use it and then there's no turning back.

For someone not very technically minded (my wife...) or who drives the car only occasionally between normal cars I can see that it would feel unnerving switching between the two though.

Question: If you were sitting at the lights in I-pedal mode without your foot on the brake, and someone rear ended you, would the car automatically apply full brakes for you?

[NortonES2]

Or like the person yesterday who hit the car in front of them because they were in a petrol automatic (pool car) which didn't have one pedal driving, after 3 years of driving an EV.

[Road2Ruin]

My Skoda Enyaq works brilliantly with one pedal, rarely touch the brake. It also shows the level of regeneration or battery use on the dashboard using a slider that goes from left to right and changes colour. The further left, the more regen, the more it goes right, the more battery power is being used.

[ds666]

Porsche Taycan has minimal regen (or none ) but most “braking “ using the brake pedal is actually regen .
We’ve had a variety of evs - i3 one pedal was great , ETron poor , ipace great but I find the wife’s mini not as good as the i3

[raspy]

Adaptive regen on BMW iX works amazing well. Switches between coasting and regen braking without you even needing to think about it.

[anonymous-user]

Having AWD is very important for proper regeneration so you can have 4 wheel regenerative braking.

The EV6 can regenerate at an insane 350kW rate, faster than most fast DC chargers under maximum 0.6g AWD regenerative braking.

https://www.hyundaimotorgroup.com/story/CONT000000...

[rewild]

I was a little concerned with the lack of adjustability in the i3 regen before I tried it. Since trying it, I think they've absolutely nailed it and it's how all EVs should be. So intuitive, and it works whether you're in a traffic jam or on a spirited b-road. I use the brake pedal about once a fortnight, just to give the disks and pads a wipe.