Selling EV's (Used)
Discussion
Does anyone have any recent anecdotal experience of selling an EV?
I am looking at selling mine on and I have to say it has been a bit of a rollercoaster response of offers...
A lot of dealers have told me that at the moment they are unsure of the market and have seen a big tumble in prices not being able to shift stock. This got me thinking a little, with two questions popping in to my head:
1) Are EV sales seasonal? i.e. owners get frustrated over the winter months due to the impact cold and poor weather has to range and look to another solution therefore creating a glut. On that front I heard a great saying on Electrifying the other day "going Apollo 13" referring to wrap up warm rather than put the heaters on etc to maximise range. I chuckled, but it's true, I have found myself once or twice turning things off to preserve miles.
2) Are second hand EV's perceived as more risky and as a result retain less value? Somewhat mitigated recently by just generally crazy used car prices, but maybe this is settling back to something more reasonable until a decent history of ownership (battery longevity and understanding of replacement cost outside of warranty) is built up.
or maybe there is another reason or maybe I'm just asking the wrong dealers, but using WBAC as a barometer it doesn't seem like the dealers are out of touch per se.
Anyone got any other thoughts where maybe they see this as a temporary lull due to cost of living or some other reason?
I am looking at selling mine on and I have to say it has been a bit of a rollercoaster response of offers...
A lot of dealers have told me that at the moment they are unsure of the market and have seen a big tumble in prices not being able to shift stock. This got me thinking a little, with two questions popping in to my head:
1) Are EV sales seasonal? i.e. owners get frustrated over the winter months due to the impact cold and poor weather has to range and look to another solution therefore creating a glut. On that front I heard a great saying on Electrifying the other day "going Apollo 13" referring to wrap up warm rather than put the heaters on etc to maximise range. I chuckled, but it's true, I have found myself once or twice turning things off to preserve miles.
2) Are second hand EV's perceived as more risky and as a result retain less value? Somewhat mitigated recently by just generally crazy used car prices, but maybe this is settling back to something more reasonable until a decent history of ownership (battery longevity and understanding of replacement cost outside of warranty) is built up.
or maybe there is another reason or maybe I'm just asking the wrong dealers, but using WBAC as a barometer it doesn't seem like the dealers are out of touch per se.
Anyone got any other thoughts where maybe they see this as a temporary lull due to cost of living or some other reason?
In short
- most except the die hard "I am happy to plan my life around charging" have realised they are not as good as an ICE car i.e. when not driven in a city, in winter or perhaps they live in one of the many houseolds without charging facilities.
- electicity prices have meant they're not even that cheap to run on home charging and just as expensive as a petrol car on the road, except in winter where they only do half the range of a petrol car so will cost double.
- people have realised that they're not even that green/good for the environment when you consider production practices and where a lot of the energy comes from.
- if you don't have a Tesla then the charging network is an absolute ball if you're not the type to want to prepay 50 apps.
- the market has become flooded with cars the first users who leased them (companies with favourable tax breaks) however the general public cannot afford them.
I think that covers it. Pro EV people will disagree. Even though I have written the above I would happily have a city type car/Golf sized as a run around as EV but not as my main car.
- most except the die hard "I am happy to plan my life around charging" have realised they are not as good as an ICE car i.e. when not driven in a city, in winter or perhaps they live in one of the many houseolds without charging facilities.
- electicity prices have meant they're not even that cheap to run on home charging and just as expensive as a petrol car on the road, except in winter where they only do half the range of a petrol car so will cost double.
- people have realised that they're not even that green/good for the environment when you consider production practices and where a lot of the energy comes from.
- if you don't have a Tesla then the charging network is an absolute ball if you're not the type to want to prepay 50 apps.
- the market has become flooded with cars the first users who leased them (companies with favourable tax breaks) however the general public cannot afford them.
I think that covers it. Pro EV people will disagree. Even though I have written the above I would happily have a city type car/Golf sized as a run around as EV but not as my main car.
Edited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Tuesday 14th February 16:32
Most of the early adopters who are into the tech or just want to virtue signal already have one. The majority of these people will only ever charge at home and use if for local journeys. They will actually have another ICE car for long journeys.
Anyone considering a second hand one will likely have it as their only car. The shortcomings as listed above are being highlighted by the mainstream media now.
Anyone considering a second hand one will likely have it as their only car. The shortcomings as listed above are being highlighted by the mainstream media now.
I part exchanged my wife's 2014 Leaf Tekna at the beginning of December and got a fair price for it. It had about 47k miles on and eleven bars but still reached £7,000 As it was less than £10k in july 2019 I reckoned that depreciation wasn't too bad.
Of course PXing doesn't always yield realistic values but I'd had indications from WBAC and Motorway than £7k was the going rate.
Of course a lot changes in a couple of months.
Of course PXing doesn't always yield realistic values but I'd had indications from WBAC and Motorway than £7k was the going rate.
Of course a lot changes in a couple of months.
I got rid of my second Taycan very recently. I got off lightly with a very tiny loss on a 2month old car. Almost all the dealers I spoke to didn’t want it or couldn’t take it because they had a freeze on buying EVs. I got a call out of the blue after I’d sold it and that main dealer offered me nearly £25k less than I got for it two weeks earlier.
I think people realise that EVs are no fun when the weather is as cold as it has been, the charging infrastructure isn’t great and is massively overpriced.
I personally feel that the EV market is going to dive significantly this year, hence why I sold mine.
I think people realise that EVs are no fun when the weather is as cold as it has been, the charging infrastructure isn’t great and is massively overpriced.
I personally feel that the EV market is going to dive significantly this year, hence why I sold mine.
I've been reading the other thread and it started reasonably but seemed to descend in to a two sides no compromise typical discussion, but I didn't read all 26 pages...
Thank you for the responses.
from what I can glean I like the accumulated reasoning:
- EV's are here to stay in some form, too much invested to see otherwise
- EV's for the right use case are great
- EV's are too expensive, as all new cars are for a majority of the populace, limiting the used market because current retained value
- Most who wanted an EV for whatever reason, tax, local emissions, just to try because they could have one already
- There are a lot of people who lease so vehicles become more "disposable" and used doesn't feature
- We have just come out of unusual times and all suffering short memories as to how the used car market typically acted
Seems to me that EV's (and in my particular case) are just having an earlier "correction" than others and it is a bit of a return to the norm, if you want security and little depreciation buy sufficiently used (not 3/4 year old cars which the car company's are on the hook for a guaranteed future value).
Thank you for the responses.
from what I can glean I like the accumulated reasoning:
- EV's are here to stay in some form, too much invested to see otherwise
- EV's for the right use case are great
- EV's are too expensive, as all new cars are for a majority of the populace, limiting the used market because current retained value
- Most who wanted an EV for whatever reason, tax, local emissions, just to try because they could have one already
- There are a lot of people who lease so vehicles become more "disposable" and used doesn't feature
- We have just come out of unusual times and all suffering short memories as to how the used car market typically acted
Seems to me that EV's (and in my particular case) are just having an earlier "correction" than others and it is a bit of a return to the norm, if you want security and little depreciation buy sufficiently used (not 3/4 year old cars which the car company's are on the hook for a guaranteed future value).
Boosted LS1 said:
W12GT said:
I think people realise that EVs are no fun when the weather is as cold as it has been, the charging infrastructure isn’t great and is massively overpriced.
Is this due to using energy to keep them warm and defrost the glass?When I bought mine I was told it would get up to 305miles on a charge (obviously this is under perfect conditions). The reality being I was seeing 165miles. As a result I was having to charge at public chargers on my longer journeys and I was never near an IONITY charger that’s only charged 30p per kWh, it was always around the 80p mark. Just made no sense to me when I was getting less than 2miles per kWh which made it over 40p per mile.
The pro EV owners will argue about getting a dual rate meter at home and it’s only 10p per kWh, but the reality is that’s only for 4-6hrs a day. The rest of the time it’ll be at 45p per kWh. I have quite a few cars so none of mine see high mileage each year, therefore I wouldn’t use much cheap energy to power the one car, and the rest of the time I’d be paying for the whole house usage at 10p over the going rate and that usage far exceeds what I’d be putting into the EV.
The only thing I really miss about the car is the near instant heat and ability to preheat it without any signs to the outside world that it’s running.
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
- electicity prices have meant they're not even that cheap to run on home charging and just as expensive as a petrol car on the road, except in winter where they only do half the range of a petrol car so will cost double.
Your claim of a 50% reduction in range doesn't hold water I'm afraidEdited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Tuesday 14th February 16:32
And don't forget that a petrol engines fuel consumption can increase by up to 20% in the winter.
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/2876.pdf
NMNeil said:
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
- electicity prices have meant they're not even that cheap to run on home charging and just as expensive as a petrol car on the road, except in winter where they only do half the range of a petrol car so will cost double.
Your claim of a 50% reduction in range doesn't hold water I'm afraidEdited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Tuesday 14th February 16:32
And don't forget that a petrol engines fuel consumption can increase by up to 20% in the winter.
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/2876.pdf
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
In short
- most except the die hard "I am happy to plan my life around charging" have realised they are not as good as an ICE car i.e. when not driven in a city, in winter or perhaps they live in one of the many houseolds without charging facilities.
- electicity prices have meant they're not even that cheap to run on home charging and just as expensive as a petrol car on the road, except in winter where they only do half the range of a petrol car so will cost double.
- people have realised that they're not even that green/good for the environment when you consider production practices and where a lot of the energy comes from.
- if you don't have a Tesla then the charging network is an absolute ball if you're not the type to want to prepay 50 apps.
- the market has become flooded with cars the first users who leased them (companies with favourable tax breaks) however the general public cannot afford them.
I think that covers it. Pro EV people will disagree. Even though I have written the above I would happily have a city type car/Golf sized as a run around as EV but not as my main car.
I've manage to use my Standard Range Tesla for 3 years with no queueing so far. Multiple 280 mile return trips to Northumberland, holiday to the Isle of Skye and also the Alps. As long as you know where the charge points are it's easy.- most except the die hard "I am happy to plan my life around charging" have realised they are not as good as an ICE car i.e. when not driven in a city, in winter or perhaps they live in one of the many houseolds without charging facilities.
- electicity prices have meant they're not even that cheap to run on home charging and just as expensive as a petrol car on the road, except in winter where they only do half the range of a petrol car so will cost double.
- people have realised that they're not even that green/good for the environment when you consider production practices and where a lot of the energy comes from.
- if you don't have a Tesla then the charging network is an absolute ball if you're not the type to want to prepay 50 apps.
- the market has become flooded with cars the first users who leased them (companies with favourable tax breaks) however the general public cannot afford them.
I think that covers it. Pro EV people will disagree. Even though I have written the above I would happily have a city type car/Golf sized as a run around as EV but not as my main car.
Edited by VeeReihenmotor6 on Tuesday 14th February 16:32
Electricity prices for off peak charging at home are still very cheap. I'm currently paying 7.5p/kW for 4 hours, 39p for the rest. The usage is 65% @ 7.5p, so the extra 5p on the day rate is a tiny additional cost.
Never considered the green aspect, it's a cheap form of transport. I didn't consider the negative aspects of fossil fuels when my main car was an ICE either.
A non Tesla can be charged without apps on most occasions. Some still require them, but Instavolt, Osprey, Ionity, FastNED are contactless. Things must have changed since you had your EV,
Can't comment on the used market except to say prices went sky high, then dropped back. My car is leased through the company I work for and the other is my wife's car, bought privately a year ago which she is keeping long term.
EDIT for spelling!
Edited by Maracus on Tuesday 14th February 20:15
As alluded to above, the issue is that the residual bubble for EVs has been even more inflated than that of ICE vehicles due to severely limited supply and rapidly rising demand, so as supply issues (on all cars) dwindle EVs are perhaps due a sharper correction than ICE vehicles.
The "EVs are less efficient in the winter" thing is certainly true, but by nowhere near the margin some people seem to believe; the range difference between a warm summer's day and a cold winter's one in the UK, making no effort to be stingy with the heating, etc. seems to be of the order of 10% for most EVs. A few older designs such as the Leaf which lack thermal management of the battery can suffer more. If anything I'd say the advantages of remote pre-heating (which almost all EVs but very few ICE vehicles have) would probably outweigh the disadvantages of slightly reduced range for most owners in the winter.
The "EVs are less efficient in the winter" thing is certainly true, but by nowhere near the margin some people seem to believe; the range difference between a warm summer's day and a cold winter's one in the UK, making no effort to be stingy with the heating, etc. seems to be of the order of 10% for most EVs. A few older designs such as the Leaf which lack thermal management of the battery can suffer more. If anything I'd say the advantages of remote pre-heating (which almost all EVs but very few ICE vehicles have) would probably outweigh the disadvantages of slightly reduced range for most owners in the winter.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th February 20:15
kambites said:
The "EVs are less efficient in the winter" thing is certainly true, but by nowhere near the margin some people seem to believe; the range difference between a warm summer's day and a cold winter's one in the UK, making no effort to be stingy with the heating, etc. seems to be of the order of 10% for most EVs. A few older designs such as the Leaf which lack thermal management of the battery can suffer more.
Agrred.Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th February 20:14
For eg, my SR Tesla is 10-15% worse for range when it's hovering around 0 degrees than at 20 degrees for a similar 70mph motorway trip.
Boosted LS1 said:
W12GT said:
I think people realise that EVs are no fun when the weather is as cold as it has been, the charging infrastructure isn’t great and is massively overpriced.
Is this due to using energy to keep them warm and defrost the glass?(I took my daughter's car to get some petrol the other day and I was shocked at how toxic the environment felt. You could smell the VOC's everywhere, it's a bit like having to stop smoking before you realise how unpleasant it is.)
Everyone's case is different but don't believe the naysayers until you have actually looked into your own needs. If the range and charging requirements of an EV fit your use case then they can be massively better.
How many people who have are knocking EV's have actually owned one?
Maracus said:
Muzzer79 said:
Oh good, another thread debating the pricing of EVs and tangent-ing into whether they are viable for everyone 
We've not had one for 48 hours 
It's so easy. You buy one if it fits your needs or you don't buy one if it doesn't.
A Caterham 7 would be a massive compromise to my daily driving life and not practical so, y’know what?……I don’t buy one.
I don’t come on PH threads saying that a Caterham wouldn’t suit anyone.
I don’t understand why people can’t apply the same logic to EVs.
Surely it’s the large amount of EV salary sacrifice cars being returned, we’ve gone from a shortage to a surplus in the used market on some models.
I’m sure there were circa 50 Model 3s on Auto Trader 18 months ago, now there are almost 1000!
Great for the used market. I cancelled my salary sacrifice order, the cost was not good value for money, I just wanted something new and shiny for the sake of it. Planning on sticking to buying used with cash.
I’m sure there were circa 50 Model 3s on Auto Trader 18 months ago, now there are almost 1000!
Great for the used market. I cancelled my salary sacrifice order, the cost was not good value for money, I just wanted something new and shiny for the sake of it. Planning on sticking to buying used with cash.
This thread is music to my ears..
I'm hoping to buy a used i3S in a couple of months.
I did some research by looking up the webuyanycar offers on some advertised cars, and the prices are so far apart it just means that there's no trade buyers right now. So there are a few dealers with v.expensive stock. Do some dealers still have 100day limits?
I'm hoping to buy a used i3S in a couple of months.
I did some research by looking up the webuyanycar offers on some advertised cars, and the prices are so far apart it just means that there's no trade buyers right now. So there are a few dealers with v.expensive stock. Do some dealers still have 100day limits?
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