more speeding fines?
Discussion
Well, most EVs have a nice large speedometer, often digital, often on a nice bright screen. So if Doris pins the throttle off the lights and ignores this, then yes, she might well get done for speeding.
Sort of curious as to what your point is though? Are you saying this is a bad thing?
Sort of curious as to what your point is though? Are you saying this is a bad thing?
blueacid said:
Well, most EVs have a nice large speedometer, often digital, often on a nice bright screen. So if Doris pins the throttle off the lights and ignores this, then yes, she might well get done for speeding.
Sort of curious as to what your point is though? Are you saying this is a bad thing?
the girlfriend recently got done in a 20 zone, and she normally pays attention. Auntie Doris may have more frequent brain farts.Sort of curious as to what your point is though? Are you saying this is a bad thing?
Tough s
t I say 
AB said:
As EVs become more common, they're not all going to do 60 in under 3 seconds are they.
I imagine there'll still be plenty of options for those that don't want supersonic speed instantly.
To be fair even those that can't do a particularly notable 0-60 dash are still very prompt 0-40 ish... And so smooth if you're not paying attention (which you should be but humans are a bit... human) it's incredibly easy to pull out of junction smartish to get out ahead of an approaching car on the road you're turning on to, and then look down and realise that you're immediately and unintentionally at 37mph in a 30 zone.I imagine there'll still be plenty of options for those that don't want supersonic speed instantly.
I caught myself a few times when we first got an EV, to this day my wife is a bugger for it - almost every time she's driving, as we turn out of the estate onto the 30mph main road, she's always straight up to 40mph!
But apart from unintended zoominess around town... I actually expect the average EV owner will be slightly less likely to get caught speeding, because at least half of the owners out there will be more interested in preserving range and economy than speed, and as such I'm forever seeing EV's trundling in the inner lane on motorways and dual carriageways, or perhaps cruise-control 60mph in the middle lane. I don't make any such effort myself, I drive it like I would any other car, but I am aware that a lot of chatter around EV's is concerned with going a bit slower to go further.
I also think that there are a lot of very straight laced and dare I say 'virtuous' (sanctimonious) people that drive them and these strange being's actually don't tend to speed, ever. Most won't even drive upto the speed limit most of the time...
blueacid said:
Well, most EVs have a nice large speedometer, often digital, often on a nice bright screen. So if Doris pins the throttle off the lights and ignores this, then yes, she might well get done for speeding.
Sort of curious as to what your point is though? Are you saying this is a bad thing?
I am curious about the point too.Sort of curious as to what your point is though? Are you saying this is a bad thing?
Just because something can be done doesn't mean it will always be done that way. If you drive an EV like the throttle is an on-off switch you'll make yourself and your passengers very sick very quickly.
Rapid 0-60 times aren't the be-all-and-end-all of EVs. They're a much quieter, more relaxing way to travel. Conversely I would suggest this having the opposite effect on speeding.
Folks on here and many other forums love to poke fun at "Oh look at the Tesla doing 60mph in the inside lane trying to eek out his economy"
The reality is (for me at least) sitting at 60mph is because of multiple reasons, nothing to do with gaining or extending range:
It's quieter, more relaxing
Road noise / wind noise seems much worse at 70 than 60! (so much for double laminated front glass)
If you travel at the same speed as everyone else, idiots will try to race you. Usually in some dreary mid-spec diesel A-class.
Rapid 0-60 times aren't the be-all-and-end-all of EVs. They're a much quieter, more relaxing way to travel. Conversely I would suggest this having the opposite effect on speeding.
Folks on here and many other forums love to poke fun at "Oh look at the Tesla doing 60mph in the inside lane trying to eek out his economy"
The reality is (for me at least) sitting at 60mph is because of multiple reasons, nothing to do with gaining or extending range:
It's quieter, more relaxing
Road noise / wind noise seems much worse at 70 than 60! (so much for double laminated front glass)
If you travel at the same speed as everyone else, idiots will try to race you. Usually in some dreary mid-spec diesel A-class.
TheDeuce said:
To be fair even those that can't do a particularly notable 0-60 dash are still very prompt 0-40 ish... And so smooth if you're not paying attention (which you should be but humans are a bit... human) it's incredibly easy to pull out of junction smartish to get out ahead of an approaching car on the road you're turning on to, and then look down and realise that you're immediately and unintentionally at 37mph in a 30 zone.
I caught myself a few times when we first got an EV, to this day my wife is a bugger for it - almost every time she's driving, as we turn out of the estate onto the 30mph main road, she's always straight up to 40mph!
This is also my observation to date.I caught myself a few times when we first got an EV, to this day my wife is a bugger for it - almost every time she's driving, as we turn out of the estate onto the 30mph main road, she's always straight up to 40mph!
It's the effortless speed that can result in money-spinning fines.
I doubt however that it's a collusion between governments and manufacturers.
sparta6 said:
An effortless 0-60 with auntie Doris at the EV wheel are we going to see a rise in revenue collection via speeding fines ? With many town zones now at 20 or 30, a sudden whoosh from the lights and ping - easy money it seems.
There are murmurings about limiting EV acceleration for safety reasons. That will lead to a 'gentlemen's agreement' and eventual legislation.My guess is that 'regular cars' will be limited to 3 m/s^2. That's 0-60 mph in 9 secs. Quick enough for the average driver and vulnerable road users they will encounter.
https://www.whichev.net/2020/04/24/should-ev-accel...
bigothunter said:
sparta6 said:
An effortless 0-60 with auntie Doris at the EV wheel are we going to see a rise in revenue collection via speeding fines ? With many town zones now at 20 or 30, a sudden whoosh from the lights and ping - easy money it seems.
There are murmurings about limiting EV acceleration for safety reasons. That will lead to a 'gentlemen's agreement' and eventual legislation.My guess is that 'regular cars' will be limited to 3 m/s^2. That's 0-60 mph in 9 secs. Quick enough for the average driver and vulnerable road users they will encounter.
https://www.whichev.net/2020/04/24/should-ev-accel...
sparta6 said:
An effortless 0-60 with auntie Doris at the EV wheel are we going to see a rise in revenue collection via speeding fines ? With many town zones now at 20 or 30, a sudden whoosh from the lights and ping - easy money it seems.
No… but it will mean fewer burnt out clutches as Doris reverses out of a parking space using 5500rpm in the Honda jazz.Edited by thebraketester on Tuesday 7th February 15:44
bigothunter said:
sparta6 said:
An effortless 0-60 with auntie Doris at the EV wheel are we going to see a rise in revenue collection via speeding fines ? With many town zones now at 20 or 30, a sudden whoosh from the lights and ping - easy money it seems.
There are murmurings about limiting EV acceleration for safety reasons. That will lead to a 'gentlemen's agreement' and eventual legislation.My guess is that 'regular cars' will be limited to 3 m/s^2. That's 0-60 mph in 9 secs. Quick enough for the average driver and vulnerable road users they will encounter.
https://www.whichev.net/2020/04/24/should-ev-accel...
Although have any of the gentlemen's agreements around the world actually become law? I always saw it as a way proactively avoided worrying the lawmakers whilst still letting the odd really special car slip the net... When the Japanese were in agreement to stick to the 280bhp limit, it always struck me as odd that they would claim the N/A ZX300 had 280hp, and the twin turbo variant that was clearly far quicker also supposedly had the same 280hp.. The same could be said about some BMW's that were all apparently limited to 155mph, but some seemed to do more like 175.
I think a useful thing these agreements is achieve is that they take the focus of certain aspects of a cars on paper performance which prevents the manufacturers glamourising that aspect too much. Although I'm not sure I see manufacturers racing to agree to make all cars as slow as a 1 litre Corsa.
Of course, they could put into law that and car in excess of 'x' m/s^2 that leads to an incident will be automatically classified as being driven dangerously. That wouldn't prevent car makers continuing to offer speed and power for those that enjoy it responsibly out on a back road with great visibility etc, and potentially without actually breaking any rules whatsoever.
I do agree that it's got the potential to become an issue if surrey school run mums go out and buy a Tesla because it's fashionable, and have no clue what a horse power is or that their new car has about one thousand of them... I don't like 'extra rules' but the power and torque of some new EV's is quite astonishing really and I do think it might trigger some form of rule tightening or better tools for enforcement and determination of what is sensible and reasonable driving. Currently, as I understand it, there is no definition of rapid acceleration equating to dangerous driving unless it causes the wheels to spin or the car to change direction in a manner the driver did not intend - which the police will always put in their report if either thing was witnessed. But powerful EV's just don't do that! You mash the pedal all you want and they just silently shoot off, most won't even emit a chirp from they tyres.
TheDeuce said:
Please no... 9 seconds is pitifully slow...
I think a useful thing these agreements is achieve is that they take the focus of certain aspects of a cars on paper performance which prevents the manufacturers glamourising that aspect too much. Although I'm not sure I see manufacturers racing to agree to make all cars as slow as a 1 litre Corsa.
According to figures released by the DVLA, the top ten most common cars in the UK are as follows: I think a useful thing these agreements is achieve is that they take the focus of certain aspects of a cars on paper performance which prevents the manufacturers glamourising that aspect too much. Although I'm not sure I see manufacturers racing to agree to make all cars as slow as a 1 litre Corsa.
1. Ford Fiesta – 1.54m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 10.1 sec (100ps)
2. Ford Focus – 1.3m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 9.7 sec (125ps)
3. Vauxhall Corsa – 1.11m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 17.0 s (66ps)
4. Volkswagen Golf – 1.07m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 9.7 sec (130ps)
5. Vauxhall Astra – 0.96m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 9.3 (130ps)
Mid-range variants selected for models 1,2,4 & 5. Low power 1.0L variant selected for model 3 following your slow Corsa reference.
Average 0-60mph of the four quicker mid-range variants is 9.7 seconds. Regulating 0-60mph in minimum time of 9.0 secs is generous. Perhaps a minimum time of 10.0 secs is more appropriate (<=2.7 m/s^2).
The Corsa example suggests 0-60mph in 15 secs would be enough (<=1.8 m/s^2), especially as few drivers extract maximum performance from their cars.
Average performance is adequate for the average motorist possessing average ability. Vehicle performance will be constrained accordingly in the interest of safety.
If we think back just 25 years and what the average car was like then and compare that to now, they are massively different. Your modern car is smoother, often better riding and usually a hell of a lot quieter. Not saying they are all like this, but things have progressed a lot and NVH has been a big thing for a while, so your modern cars tend to be pretty isolated driving experiences.
Does it make it easier to speed in them? Maybe. A modern EV is even quieter. Does it make it easier to speed? Maybe. Are we getting smoother and more silent cars in the future? Absolutely. Now we have computer generated noises and much more quiet exhausts, it tends to be the tire noise that is the biggest impact.
However, I would say that a good quality modern EV can be very deceptive at speed. Swift acceleration to get to the limit and near instant response to the pedals means that its pretty easy to drift over too. However, the same could be said for my old C63S (may it have a wonderful garage in car heaven). Far from quiet or smooth, but the way that thing felt at 100, you would swear it was 20 MPH slower. Effortless and no let up in shove. You had to be VERY careful driving that thing, and now modern M3 and C63S's are even more powerful!
Its a problem with cars in general though. We want them smoother, faster, quieter and nicer. And I can see why various governments around the world are trying to introduce mechanisms to keep speeds down.
Does it make it easier to speed in them? Maybe. A modern EV is even quieter. Does it make it easier to speed? Maybe. Are we getting smoother and more silent cars in the future? Absolutely. Now we have computer generated noises and much more quiet exhausts, it tends to be the tire noise that is the biggest impact.
However, I would say that a good quality modern EV can be very deceptive at speed. Swift acceleration to get to the limit and near instant response to the pedals means that its pretty easy to drift over too. However, the same could be said for my old C63S (may it have a wonderful garage in car heaven). Far from quiet or smooth, but the way that thing felt at 100, you would swear it was 20 MPH slower. Effortless and no let up in shove. You had to be VERY careful driving that thing, and now modern M3 and C63S's are even more powerful!
Its a problem with cars in general though. We want them smoother, faster, quieter and nicer. And I can see why various governments around the world are trying to introduce mechanisms to keep speeds down.
off_again said:
Its a problem with cars in general though. We want them smoother, faster, quieter and nicer. And I can see why various governments around the world are trying to introduce mechanisms to keep speeds down.
Generally, cars are too fast for the limited ability of their average drivers. Enthusiasts need to lower their sights before the authorities do it for them.Mediocrity matters...
bigothunter said:
TheDeuce said:
Please no... 9 seconds is pitifully slow...
I think a useful thing these agreements is achieve is that they take the focus of certain aspects of a cars on paper performance which prevents the manufacturers glamourising that aspect too much. Although I'm not sure I see manufacturers racing to agree to make all cars as slow as a 1 litre Corsa.
According to figures released by the DVLA, the top ten most common cars in the UK are as follows: I think a useful thing these agreements is achieve is that they take the focus of certain aspects of a cars on paper performance which prevents the manufacturers glamourising that aspect too much. Although I'm not sure I see manufacturers racing to agree to make all cars as slow as a 1 litre Corsa.
1. Ford Fiesta – 1.54m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 10.1 sec (100ps)
2. Ford Focus – 1.3m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 9.7 sec (125ps)
3. Vauxhall Corsa – 1.11m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 17.0 s (66ps)
4. Volkswagen Golf – 1.07m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 9.7 sec (130ps)
5. Vauxhall Astra – 0.96m on UK roads 0-60 mph in 9.3 (130ps)
Mid-range variants selected for models 1,2,4 & 5. Low power 1.0L variant selected for model 3 following your slow Corsa reference.
Average 0-60mph of the four quicker mid-range variants is 9.7 seconds. Regulating 0-60mph in minimum time of 9.0 secs is generous. Perhaps a minimum time of 10.0 secs is more appropriate (<=2.7 m/s^2).
The Corsa example suggests 0-60mph in 15 secs would be enough (<=1.8 m/s^2), especially as few drivers extract maximum performance from their cars.
Average performance is adequate for the average motorist possessing average ability. Vehicle performance will be constrained accordingly in the interest of safety.
Yes my corsa reference was a little heavy handed...
But I don't see that the shift to EV is going to tip us into acceleration limits, cars have been getter faster and more powerful for decades - but they have also progressively become safer to an even greater extent than at any other point in motoring history we could compare to.
I really don't see that we're at a milestone moment that is likely to bring heavy new legislation that will force manufacturers to stop pushing power increases. I haven't heard anyone pushing for such a thing - I'm sure someone is somewhere, always, but nothing that has picked up any real media/political/social interest.
People like to express themselves via their cars, they like choice. Why are you on PH suggesting a 9, now 10 second minimum 0-60 pace?! Stop it!!!!
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