Which i3 and have I calculated running costs right?
Discussion
Hi,
Am seriously considering an i3 for my 62 mile round trip, rural commute. Have done lots of searches and reading on here and else where.
The cheapest ones are about 10k, have 90k miles and are the early 22kw REX versions, which have some issues in reliability, apparently.
Its difficult to work out exact costs but I'm going for £2.00 for the 60 mile journey - mostly between 40 and 60 mph, very few stops but a lot of coasting. Does that seem about right?
I'm planning on about 18k miles per year, mostly rural. Only have charging at home, not at work. No motorway. Not much town.
The 10k ones are very attractive because the savings over the current car would pay for the i3 in 3 years. Meaning I could just have an extra car. Paying for itself so fast is helpful as the need to bring the total number of cars to 4 is proving difficult explain.
However, for 15k you can get sub 50k miles 22kw or 85k miles for a 33k. £15k would entail borrowing money, which is more difficult to justify. And. obviously take longer to repay, also problematic.
I rarely travel round trips of much over 70 miles, so the older, smaller, battery should be enough, especially with the range extender. We will have at least 2 ICE cars for long journeys.
Also, would it charge up enough in 13hours overnight on a 3 pin plug?
So - can I get away with a 100k miles, 22kw i3, charged on a 3 pin at about £2 per 60 mile journey?
Thanks
Am seriously considering an i3 for my 62 mile round trip, rural commute. Have done lots of searches and reading on here and else where.
The cheapest ones are about 10k, have 90k miles and are the early 22kw REX versions, which have some issues in reliability, apparently.
Its difficult to work out exact costs but I'm going for £2.00 for the 60 mile journey - mostly between 40 and 60 mph, very few stops but a lot of coasting. Does that seem about right?
I'm planning on about 18k miles per year, mostly rural. Only have charging at home, not at work. No motorway. Not much town.
The 10k ones are very attractive because the savings over the current car would pay for the i3 in 3 years. Meaning I could just have an extra car. Paying for itself so fast is helpful as the need to bring the total number of cars to 4 is proving difficult explain.
However, for 15k you can get sub 50k miles 22kw or 85k miles for a 33k. £15k would entail borrowing money, which is more difficult to justify. And. obviously take longer to repay, also problematic.
I rarely travel round trips of much over 70 miles, so the older, smaller, battery should be enough, especially with the range extender. We will have at least 2 ICE cars for long journeys.
Also, would it charge up enough in 13hours overnight on a 3 pin plug?
So - can I get away with a 100k miles, 22kw i3, charged on a 3 pin at about £2 per 60 mile journey?
Thanks
The question is, how many miles does a £10k i3 Rex have left in it?
I doubt it's as much as 100,000 or as little as 20,000.
Which puts depreciation somewhere between 10 and 50p per mile.
10p a mile plus electricity is very tempting.
50p/mile rather less so.
How confident are you it's good for say 50k miles?
The cost of the electricity que sera sera TBH.
Other costs from 'unreliability' might be significant in the scheme of things. Or not.
What is the nature of that, and is it stuff that's been sorted, or stuff that will get worse as the car gets older?
Other annual costs of having an extra car? Insurance and is it 2025 for VEL and how much will that be?
If it had 400 miles of petrol range it would be hard to resist.
I doubt it's as much as 100,000 or as little as 20,000.
Which puts depreciation somewhere between 10 and 50p per mile.
10p a mile plus electricity is very tempting.
50p/mile rather less so.
How confident are you it's good for say 50k miles?
The cost of the electricity que sera sera TBH.
Other costs from 'unreliability' might be significant in the scheme of things. Or not.
What is the nature of that, and is it stuff that's been sorted, or stuff that will get worse as the car gets older?
Other annual costs of having an extra car? Insurance and is it 2025 for VEL and how much will that be?
If it had 400 miles of petrol range it would be hard to resist.
Realistically the 2015 may be a bit of a stretch in the winter. A 33Kwh would be fine. A 42Kwh would be perfect.
You may find this useful:
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2018/i3
Get a 7Kw charger at home. Either a 32 Amp master socket or a proper charger (zap will be about £1200) and you will be fine charging overnight (you can go onto Octopus and program it to charge between 12:30am and 4:30am for 12.5p Kwh.) You could get enough juice on a 3 pin if that is the only option.
Economy wise 60 miles would be about 75% of the 22kw battery so £2 per day seems reasonable at the low octopus rate.
If you get a referral code for octopus you even get £50 credit - so about 400kwh free !
You may find this useful:
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/bmw/2018/i3
Get a 7Kw charger at home. Either a 32 Amp master socket or a proper charger (zap will be about £1200) and you will be fine charging overnight (you can go onto Octopus and program it to charge between 12:30am and 4:30am for 12.5p Kwh.) You could get enough juice on a 3 pin if that is the only option.
Economy wise 60 miles would be about 75% of the 22kw battery so £2 per day seems reasonable at the low octopus rate.
If you get a referral code for octopus you even get £50 credit - so about 400kwh free !
I would avoid the Rex and get the biggest battery you can afford and worry less about the mileage.
I run a 120 Ah and it is a fab commuting car.
As for cost - work on around 4 miles per kWh on average across the year (mine is currently 3.8).
I use Octopus Intelligent and only charge at home and at night = 12 per kWh = about 3p a mile. Or equivalent in price to 222 mpg in a petrol car.
They seem incredibly reliable (Rex aside). My car has been faultless.
PS I charged mine on a 3 pin (at at least 8 miles per hour) for 18 months.
I run a 120 Ah and it is a fab commuting car.
As for cost - work on around 4 miles per kWh on average across the year (mine is currently 3.8).
I use Octopus Intelligent and only charge at home and at night = 12 per kWh = about 3p a mile. Or equivalent in price to 222 mpg in a petrol car.
They seem incredibly reliable (Rex aside). My car has been faultless.
PS I charged mine on a 3 pin (at at least 8 miles per hour) for 18 months.
Edited by Discombobulate on Sunday 29th January 16:56
Have factored in servicing and insurance. Depreciation more difficult, though the cheaper one lasts just over 3 years it would then "pay" £250 month in saved petrol and be worth what ever it is worth.
Added complication is estimating the massive reduction in wear and tear and mileage / depreciation on my otherwise non-depreciating "modern classic" that will then barely being used.
Still work to be done!
Added complication is estimating the massive reduction in wear and tear and mileage / depreciation on my otherwise non-depreciating "modern classic" that will then barely being used.
Still work to be done!
I have a similar usage to you - 40 miles per day rural commute. I looked at 94Ah but in the end went for a 120 Ah (42kWh) as it gives me more flexibility and its so nice to drive I end up using it for even long journeys. The older 60Ah aren't unreliable its just that the very early ones had quite a few issue to iron out but by now they will all have been fixed but of course they are 10 year old cars. When i was looking i could see that the REX versions have many more failures than the pure electric cars. Quite a few of these are because people buy the REX for the comfort blanket and then never use it so its full of cobwebs by the day they actually need it.
If you haven't found it already look at this site for stock https://tesla-info.com/bmw/bmw-inventory.php
Prices are falling sharply at the moment so you should be looking for a substantial discount from the currently advertised levels.
The highest mileage car currently for sale is at 140,000 miles and there are quite a few over 100,000, there is little evidence that they wear out.
And running costs- the electricity cost isn't a problem about £380 for 12,000 miles on octopus off peak at 11p/kWh. Its costing more in tyres than electricity and my last set went to 25,000miles. It's a BMW so any bits that need doing are at BMW rates. Realistically its going to be depreciating at more than £3 per day and that is probably more than all the running costs put together.
If you haven't found it already look at this site for stock https://tesla-info.com/bmw/bmw-inventory.php
Prices are falling sharply at the moment so you should be looking for a substantial discount from the currently advertised levels.
The highest mileage car currently for sale is at 140,000 miles and there are quite a few over 100,000, there is little evidence that they wear out.
And running costs- the electricity cost isn't a problem about £380 for 12,000 miles on octopus off peak at 11p/kWh. Its costing more in tyres than electricity and my last set went to 25,000miles. It's a BMW so any bits that need doing are at BMW rates. Realistically its going to be depreciating at more than £3 per day and that is probably more than all the running costs put together.
Edited by GT6k on Sunday 29th January 17:59
Duke Caboom said:
Thanks for the replies. Very helpful.
I'm attracted to the rex partly to cope with any decrease in battery condition over time. And have wondered if doing the last miles of each day on petrol might be better for it than never using it.
But you are hauling an extra 150kg around that you don't need with your use. One of the joys on the i3 is that it is so light. Having a Rex is like carrying two extra people in the car (sitting in the boot). My car is three years old. Never seen a DC charger (which helps with battery life). And range is still the same as it was was when new.I'm attracted to the rex partly to cope with any decrease in battery condition over time. And have wondered if doing the last miles of each day on petrol might be better for it than never using it.
Discombobulate said:
But you are hauling an extra 150kg around that you don't need with your use. One of the joys on the i3 is that it is so light. Having a Rex is like carrying two extra people in the car (sitting in the boot). My car is three years old. Never seen a DC charger (which helps with battery life). And range is still the same as it was was when new.
Yes, this makes sense. Thanks. But I don't think I can stretch to a 120Ah. They are just too new to have depreciated enough to make the maths work (lots of complex reasons behind wanting to keep current cars and add another one)I had a 60 Rex but my commute was 80 mile round trip. it’s not the 62 miles that will get you, it’s the two lots of 32 miles that will - quite a few times I arrived at the office with plenty of range to get home, but after the car had completely cooled down there was no longer enough (though 50 miles was motorway) - a second journey from really cold will hurt the range. That said, I reckon a rural commute of 62 miles would be doable - many times I came home on a non motorway route to avoid petrol
I would agree that avoiding the Rex is sensible - get a 90 of you can, and you will have no problem.
I would agree that avoiding the Rex is sensible - get a 90 of you can, and you will have no problem.
Duke Caboom said:
Hi,
Am seriously considering an i3 for my 62 mile round trip, rural commute. Have done lots of searches and reading on here and else where.
The cheapest ones are about 10k, have 90k miles and are the early 22kw REX versions, which have some issues in reliability, apparently.
Its difficult to work out exact costs but I'm going for £2.00 for the 60 mile journey - mostly between 40 and 60 mph, very few stops but a lot of coasting. Does that seem about right?
I'm planning on about 18k miles per year, mostly rural. Only have charging at home, not at work. No motorway. Not much town.
The 10k ones are very attractive because the savings over the current car would pay for the i3 in 3 years. Meaning I could just have an extra car. Paying for itself so fast is helpful as the need to bring the total number of cars to 4 is proving difficult explain.
However, for 15k you can get sub 50k miles 22kw or 85k miles for a 33k. £15k would entail borrowing money, which is more difficult to justify. And. obviously take longer to repay, also problematic.
I rarely travel round trips of much over 70 miles, so the older, smaller, battery should be enough, especially with the range extender. We will have at least 2 ICE cars for long journeys.
Also, would it charge up enough in 13hours overnight on a 3 pin plug?
So - can I get away with a 100k miles, 22kw i3, charged on a 3 pin at about £2 per 60 mile journey?
Thanks
The simply answer is no, the car new can do 70miles round trip with that size battery and after a few years and in winter you might be getting 50miles. You may find a 42kwh i3 for around 20k which would be a far more viable option.Am seriously considering an i3 for my 62 mile round trip, rural commute. Have done lots of searches and reading on here and else where.
The cheapest ones are about 10k, have 90k miles and are the early 22kw REX versions, which have some issues in reliability, apparently.
Its difficult to work out exact costs but I'm going for £2.00 for the 60 mile journey - mostly between 40 and 60 mph, very few stops but a lot of coasting. Does that seem about right?
I'm planning on about 18k miles per year, mostly rural. Only have charging at home, not at work. No motorway. Not much town.
The 10k ones are very attractive because the savings over the current car would pay for the i3 in 3 years. Meaning I could just have an extra car. Paying for itself so fast is helpful as the need to bring the total number of cars to 4 is proving difficult explain.
However, for 15k you can get sub 50k miles 22kw or 85k miles for a 33k. £15k would entail borrowing money, which is more difficult to justify. And. obviously take longer to repay, also problematic.
I rarely travel round trips of much over 70 miles, so the older, smaller, battery should be enough, especially with the range extender. We will have at least 2 ICE cars for long journeys.
Also, would it charge up enough in 13hours overnight on a 3 pin plug?
So - can I get away with a 100k miles, 22kw i3, charged on a 3 pin at about £2 per 60 mile journey?
Thanks
Regarding changing you best with Zappi or similar
dmsims said:
Why limit yourself to an I3 with such a focus on costs ?
Needs to be interesting, , rightly or wrongly, Leaf and Zoe not sufficiently interesting for me. Not necessarily great, just interesting. Cost focus due to already having 2 cars+ bike (plus wife's car) and therefore need to justify expenditure. Open to other suggestions.
For reference: Audi A2 and Honda CR-Z also on list, along with some 6 cylinder diesels.
Edited by Duke Caboom on Monday 30th January 11:15
I honestly wouldn't bother. The prices for older, small battery, low range BEV's are stupidly high at the minute and don't represent good value IMHO. £13k for an 8 year old city car with < 100 miles of range and 85k miles on the clock? Pull the other one.
If you're after a fun and impractical city car spend half as much on an Abarth 595 for the same age and mileage. You'll get a far better TCO despite fuel costs, not have to worry about winter range and likely have more fun anyway.
Nothing against the i3, we had a 120ah for 18 months and thought it was brilliant, but wouldnlt have another at current used prices.
If you're after a fun and impractical city car spend half as much on an Abarth 595 for the same age and mileage. You'll get a far better TCO despite fuel costs, not have to worry about winter range and likely have more fun anyway.
Nothing against the i3, we had a 120ah for 18 months and thought it was brilliant, but wouldnlt have another at current used prices.
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