Give and take... my stored energy
Discussion
Not sure what I just read as slightly drunk and think I knew it already.....I assume its charge when cheap and power when in demand
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-plan-for-sm...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-plan-for-sm...
This is off the back of the infrastructure and tech that has been developed by octopus (kraken) and discussed at length on these forums for well over a year.
They've invested hugely to find solutions the politicians can stand behind and push into mass adoption.
This is why I've rolled my eyes at those that have imagined a long list of problems in the future because of the problems we have today. It's always been obvious and apparent what was steadily ticking away behind the scenes and that, as a result, the future will change shape to either address or adapt to future problems.
They've invested hugely to find solutions the politicians can stand behind and push into mass adoption.
This is why I've rolled my eyes at those that have imagined a long list of problems in the future because of the problems we have today. It's always been obvious and apparent what was steadily ticking away behind the scenes and that, as a result, the future will change shape to either address or adapt to future problems.
paradigital said:
So it’s basically describing the already existing Intelligent Octopus tariff?
I’ve had no problems with it thus far.
That's a big part of it, it goes beyond that in terms of charging availability and grid feed in too.I’ve had no problems with it thus far.
But the octopus system can easily be applied to work with public or community chargers as we use it with our home chargers already.
TheDeuce said:
paradigital said:
So it’s basically describing the already existing Intelligent Octopus tariff?
I’ve had no problems with it thus far.
That's a big part of it, it goes beyond that in terms of charging availability and grid feed in too.I’ve had no problems with it thus far.
But the octopus system can easily be applied to work with public or community chargers as we use it with our home chargers already.
Please corr3ct the pissed enthusiast if needed..
TheDrownedApe said:
TheDeuce said:
paradigital said:
So it’s basically describing the already existing Intelligent Octopus tariff?
I’ve had no problems with it thus far.
That's a big part of it, it goes beyond that in terms of charging availability and grid feed in too.I’ve had no problems with it thus far.
But the octopus system can easily be applied to work with public or community chargers as we use it with our home chargers already.
Please corr3ct the pissed enthusiast if needed..
Will it ever actually be needed? Maybe, maybe not. If you put enough juice into millions of EV's then in doing so you relieve demand from the next time there might have been a shortfall of supply - because the EV's mostly won't want to charge then will they? They'll wait for the next time there's an excess and it's cheaper.
The very basic functionality of existing intelligent octopus won't be the extent of the design. It'll have far more well considered potential application, dependant on what is deemed best in the future.
A few million quid spread over a lot of pretty small projects.
One of them:
BEVScanV2X
Total project grant: £165,405
Project location: London
Participant Organisation Project Cost Project Grant
Agile Charging Ltd £191,222 £133,855
Hiyacar Limited £45,072 £31,550
Project summary
BEVScanV2X seeks to overcome battery degradation and perception challenges by creating a cost-effective tool to monitor battery health and advise optimal approaches to maximise battery life and financial returns from V2X. It will apply innovative algorithms across data obtained from the vehicle and battery to provide the most accurate health assessment possible outside of a battery test lab. This will support customers to increase V2X uptake by removing their concerns and breeding confidence that they are optimising their battery health.
If you go to the Agile Charging Ltd website, you'll find job adverts to start work in 2020 and they're not even called that any more....
The big question remains, what will V2whatever do to your 8 year battery warranty?
One of them:
BEVScanV2X
Total project grant: £165,405
Project location: London
Participant Organisation Project Cost Project Grant
Agile Charging Ltd £191,222 £133,855
Hiyacar Limited £45,072 £31,550
Project summary
BEVScanV2X seeks to overcome battery degradation and perception challenges by creating a cost-effective tool to monitor battery health and advise optimal approaches to maximise battery life and financial returns from V2X. It will apply innovative algorithms across data obtained from the vehicle and battery to provide the most accurate health assessment possible outside of a battery test lab. This will support customers to increase V2X uptake by removing their concerns and breeding confidence that they are optimising their battery health.
If you go to the Agile Charging Ltd website, you'll find job adverts to start work in 2020 and they're not even called that any more....
The big question remains, what will V2whatever do to your 8 year battery warranty?
OutInTheShed said:
The big question remains, what will V2whatever do to your 8 year battery warranty?
Well, as you no doubt are aware you're supposed to charge 20-80% ideally, and not use too much DC charging. So it follows logically that it's not great to be forever charging and discharging an li-ion battery.But.. We know that the first raft of Tesla buyers were given extensive battery warranties and unlimited free DC charging. I don't expect many of them stopped charging at 80% when it was free and they had a warranty to lean back on, do you? Yet those early cars are now a decade old and under testing have been found to generally have only about 10% degradation - despite their owners not giving a toss about how kindly they treated them.
We also have well over a decade of home installed batteries swapping solar to house/grid without major headlines about the batteries failing before they have easily paid for their cost.
So I would say, don't worry about it. Or if you do, don't take part.
OutInTheShed said:
The big question remains, what will V2whatever do to your 8 year battery warranty?
search for the utrecht V2x trial. one of the unexpected benefits was that regular battery cycling via V2x was actually beneficial for them. think about putting your foot down and calling on 150kW or plugging in to a 50kW+ charger, verses a couple of kW in or out of the battery. much less stressful on the cells.Will be interesting to see who first contact with the punters pans out when trying to take electricity back off them during times of higher cost. 
There is a reason why most firms wouldn't rush to build a business that was reliant upon Barry in Hemel, what level his car is charged to and whether he has decided to unplug it to keep his electrons safe from 'The Man'.
The first day the Grid plucks a single electron from a punter's car there will be an uproar of 5g, vaccine nanobot proportions.
There is a reason why most firms wouldn't rush to build a business that was reliant upon Barry in Hemel, what level his car is charged to and whether he has decided to unplug it to keep his electrons safe from 'The Man'.
The first day the Grid plucks a single electron from a punter's car there will be an uproar of 5g, vaccine nanobot proportions.
DonkeyApple said:
Will be interesting to see who first contact with the punters pans out when trying to take electricity back off them during times of higher cost.
There is a reason why most firms wouldn't rush to build a business that was reliant upon Barry in Hemel, what level his car is charged to and whether he has decided to unplug it to keep his electrons safe from 'The Man'.
The first day the Grid plucks a single electron from a punter's car there will be an uproar of 5g, vaccine nanobot proportions.
Is that the likely scenario, or will there be mechanisms to push "Barry in Hemel" to run his home off "his" electrons at certain times?There is a reason why most firms wouldn't rush to build a business that was reliant upon Barry in Hemel, what level his car is charged to and whether he has decided to unplug it to keep his electrons safe from 'The Man'.
The first day the Grid plucks a single electron from a punter's car there will be an uproar of 5g, vaccine nanobot proportions.
That seems a much easier sell, getting the punters to arbitrage their own electricity.
Like this…
https://octopusev.com/powerloop was a successful trial.
The kit at the moment is expensive for bi direction and CHAdeMO only but ISO. 11518:20 gives far more clarity to how V2G could work over CCS2 connection in most cars now.
https://octopusev.com/powerloop was a successful trial.
The kit at the moment is expensive for bi direction and CHAdeMO only but ISO. 11518:20 gives far more clarity to how V2G could work over CCS2 connection in most cars now.
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Tuesday 17th January 23:45
TheDeuce said:
OutInTheShed said:
The big question remains, what will V2whatever do to your 8 year battery warranty?
Well, as you no doubt are aware you're supposed to charge 20-80% ideally, and not use too much DC charging. So it follows logically that it's not great to be forever charging and discharging an li-ion battery.But.. We know that the first raft of Tesla buyers were given extensive battery warranties and unlimited free DC charging. I don't expect many of them stopped charging at 80% when it was free and they had a warranty to lean back on, do you? Yet those early cars are now a decade old and under testing have been found to generally have only about 10% degradation - despite their owners not giving a toss about how kindly they treated them.
We also have well over a decade of home installed batteries swapping solar to house/grid without major headlines about the batteries failing before they have easily paid for their cost.
So I would say, don't worry about it. Or if you do, don't take part.
The reason there are no headlines about batteries wearing out from cyclic use is that it's not news.
A battery with an infinite cycle life would be news.
Last year people were talking about small discharges being non-harmful or possibly even beneficial.
Now we are talking about running your domestic heat pump from your car.
That's a fair bunch of kWh every day, but then again, maybe there are not that many December, January, February days before you're supposed to recycle your EV at 8 years old?
Of course it may be optimal to thrash a lot of cycles through your battery every year, because the thing has a finite calendar life too.
It's herding cats.
Everyone is talking about V**, not so much moving goalposts as every con-sultant is promoting a different game.
Mikehig said:
Is that the likely scenario, or will there be mechanisms to push "Barry in Hemel" to run his home off "his" electrons at certain times?
That seems a much easier sell, getting the punters to arbitrage their own electricity.
We are talking about the oppression of the people there Mike. The jackboot of corporate kleptocracy crushing down on the throat of the fine upstanding and free Englishman to take his electrons. It would certainly be easier to use pricing to trick Barry into not wanting any dirty, evil high price corporate electrons and to instead switch to using his nice, British, fair value electrons that he has stored in his castle for just an emergency. Trying to physically draw those electrons from inside his castle so as to make corporate profit just is too difficult a sell even if you said it was for the NHS or to help keep out immigrants. That seems a much easier sell, getting the punters to arbitrage their own electricity.
Mikehig said:
Is that the likely scenario, or will there be mechanisms to push "Barry in Hemel" to run his home off "his" electrons at certain times?
That seems a much easier sell, getting the punters to arbitrage their own electricity.
We are talking about the oppression of the people there Mike. The jackboot of corporate kleptocracy crushing down on the throat of the fine upstanding and free Englishman to take his electrons. It would certainly be easier to use pricing to trick Barry into not wanting any dirty, evil high price corporate electrons and to instead switch to using his nice, British, fair value electrons that he has stored in his castle for just an emergency. Trying to physically draw those electrons from inside his castle so as to make corporate profit just is too difficult a sell even if you said it was for the NHS or to help keep out immigrants. That seems a much easier sell, getting the punters to arbitrage their own electricity.
DonkeyApple said:
Will be interesting to see who first contact with the punters pans out when trying to take electricity back off them during times of higher cost.
There is a reason why most firms wouldn't rush to build a business that was reliant upon Barry in Hemel, what level his car is charged to and whether he has decided to unplug it to keep his electrons safe from 'The Man'.
The first day the Grid plucks a single electron from a punter's car there will be an uproar of 5g, vaccine nanobot proportions.
I suspect we will see amateur electron traders unable to get to work on a Monday morning, because North Sea conditions failed to drop the price to their buy point on Sunday night.There is a reason why most firms wouldn't rush to build a business that was reliant upon Barry in Hemel, what level his car is charged to and whether he has decided to unplug it to keep his electrons safe from 'The Man'.
The first day the Grid plucks a single electron from a punter's car there will be an uproar of 5g, vaccine nanobot proportions.
It could be like a few other 'booms' early adopters do well, but when everyone piles in, the costs outweigh the gains.
A side effect might be that a cohort of BEVs have their lives shortened, which cuts off supply of electro-sheds to the value conscious motorist?
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