BritishVolt no more?

[Otispunkmeyer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303149

Well I can't say I'm surprised by this but at the same time its still disappointing. Why can't we do stuff like this here? is it british management ability? is it government? what is it?

[OutInTheShed]

I don't think you can ever create a successful factory just by some politicians saying it would be a good idea and throwing some money at it.

You need either a competitive edge or a full order book.

All the other battery factories are based on a manufacturer having an established product and experience in the market.
The idea that you can just earmark a muddy field and conjure a manufacturing facility and business out of thin air shows a complete lack of understanding and respect of industry. Whatever you make, it's hard to compete from scratch if your rivals have been making the same thing for 10 years and have their processes fine tuned over a few generations.

British Volt, British Steel, British Leyland.

If we had kept up this farce, it would probably have produced its first Lithium batteries when real industry was moving on to Solid State or Sodium or whatever is next.

[SydneyBridge]

Not suprising but a shame

Article in one of the sunday newspapers said it would be ideal for JLR to take it over to build the batteries it would need

[Nomme de Plum]

The Eu are charging ( no pun intended) ahead with their battery factories and here we, the UK, are again. Complete lack of focus from the government.

If we do not develop these battery factories we will not have a car manufacturing capacity within the UK in a few years time.

[Hammersia]

Nomme de Plum said:

The Eu are charging ( no pun intended) ahead with their battery factories and here we, the UK, are again. Complete lack of focus from the government.

If we do not develop these battery factories we will not have a car manufacturing capacity within the UK in a few years time.

I disagree. We have quite a lot of world beating automotive tech on the electronic, motor and software side of things.
Battery production for the foreseeable future is a nasty, hazardous, polluting, and inefficient process that we would be far better to buy as a commodity until we invent something better.

[ettore]

SydneyBridge said:

Not suprising but a shame

Article in one of the sunday newspapers said it would be ideal for JLR to take it over to build the batteries it would need

I think they have their own plan which is amongst a number chasing some govt funding. I rather worry that our inept and sclerotic administration may balls the whole thing up..

[Nomme de Plum]

Hammersia said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The Eu are charging ( no pun intended) ahead with their battery factories and here we, the UK, are again. Complete lack of focus from the government.

If we do not develop these battery factories we will not have a car manufacturing capacity within the UK in a few years time.

I disagree. We have quite a lot of world beating automotive tech on the electronic, motor and software side of things.
Battery production for the foreseeable future is a nasty, hazardous, polluting, and inefficient process that we would be far better to buy as a commodity until we invent something better.

Not that simple if you wish to export a completed car. How will you circumvent Rules of Origin requirements?

Why do you think the Eu and USA are ensuring they have battery manufacturing capability to support their EV car production?

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Tuesday 17th January 15:17

[Hammersia]

Nomme de Plum said:

Hammersia said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The Eu are charging ( no pun intended) ahead with their battery factories and here we, the UK, are again. Complete lack of focus from the government.

If we do not develop these battery factories we will not have a car manufacturing capacity within the UK in a few years time.

I disagree. We have quite a lot of world beating automotive tech on the electronic, motor and software side of things.
Battery production for the foreseeable future is a nasty, hazardous, polluting, and inefficient process that we would be far better to buy as a commodity until we invent something better.

Not that simple if you wish to export a completed car. How will you circumvent Rules of Origin requiurements?

Why do you think the Eu and USA are ensuring they have battery manufacturing to support the EV car production.

Your original comment was about producing cars here, not exporting, so I was answering that.

Although you've not posted any specific link, goods are normally considered to originate from where more than 50% of their value comes from. Battery prices are decreasing continuously, now less than $100/kW, so that's not likely to be a problem for export.

[Nomme de Plum]

Hammersia said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Hammersia said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The Eu are charging ( no pun intended) ahead with their battery factories and here we, the UK, are again. Complete lack of focus from the government.

If we do not develop these battery factories we will not have a car manufacturing capacity within the UK in a few years time.

I disagree. We have quite a lot of world beating automotive tech on the electronic, motor and software side of things.
Battery production for the foreseeable future is a nasty, hazardous, polluting, and inefficient process that we would be far better to buy as a commodity until we invent something better.

Not that simple if you wish to export a completed car. How will you circumvent Rules of Origin requiurements?

Why do you think the Eu and USA are ensuring they have battery manufacturing to support the EV car production.

Your original comment was about producing cars here, not exporting, so I was answering that.

Although you've not posted any specific link, goods are normally considered to originate from where more than 50% of their value comes from. Battery prices are decreasing continuously, now less than $100/kW, so that's not likely to be a problem for export.

We manufacture products to export. Do you believe that the UK could build cars just for UK consumers? It would not be viable.

We would also be exposed to the vagaries of external suppliers and other countries attitude to the UK. We are already seeing the damage that Brexit has done.

The BV thing is unfortunate but I'm reasonably confident if the government properly engage maybe someone like Tata may be pursuaded to invest.

[Hammersia]

Nomme de Plum said:

Hammersia said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Hammersia said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The Eu are charging ( no pun intended) ahead with their battery factories and here we, the UK, are again. Complete lack of focus from the government.

If we do not develop these battery factories we will not have a car manufacturing capacity within the UK in a few years time.

I disagree. We have quite a lot of world beating automotive tech on the electronic, motor and software side of things.
Battery production for the foreseeable future is a nasty, hazardous, polluting, and inefficient process that we would be far better to buy as a commodity until we invent something better.

Not that simple if you wish to export a completed car. How will you circumvent Rules of Origin requiurements?

Why do you think the Eu and USA are ensuring they have battery manufacturing to support the EV car production.

Your original comment was about producing cars here, not exporting, so I was answering that.

Although you've not posted any specific link, goods are normally considered to originate from where more than 50% of their value comes from. Battery prices are decreasing continuously, now less than $100/kW, so that's not likely to be a problem for export.

We manufacture products to export. Do you believe that the UK could build cars just for UK consumers? It would not be viable.

We would also be exposed to the vagaries of external suppliers and other countries attitude to the UK. We are already seeing the damage that Brexit has done.

The BV thing is unfortunate but I'm reasonably confident if the government properly engage maybe someone like Tata may be pursuaded to invest.

Well tens of thousands of car jobs were lost when Peugeot, Vauxhall Luton and Ford Southampton closed, all when we were in Europe, so thank goodness we've left.

Anyway it's not a Brexit thread.

[Silvanus]

Hammersia said:

Well tens of thousands of car jobs were lost when Peugeot, Vauxhall Luton and Ford Southampton closed, all when we were in Europe, so thank goodness we've left.

Anyway it's not a Brexit thread.

I don't remember us leaving Europe

[Nomme de Plum]

Silvanus said:

Hammersia said:

Well tens of thousands of car jobs were lost when Peugeot, Vauxhall Luton and Ford Southampton closed, all when we were in Europe, so thank goodness we've left.

Anyway it's not a Brexit thread.

I don't remember us leaving Europe

We haven't. But paints a picture of some posters mindset.

The impact of leaving the Eu can't be ignored and does affect future car manufacturing in the UK.

[Hammersia]

Nomme de Plum said:

Silvanus said:

Hammersia said:

Well tens of thousands of car jobs were lost when Peugeot, Vauxhall Luton and Ford Southampton closed, all when we were in Europe, so thank goodness we've left.

Anyway it's not a Brexit thread.

I don't remember us leaving Europe

We haven't. But paints a picture of some posters mindset.

The impact of leaving the Eu can't be ignored and does affect future car manufacturing in the UK.

The Guardian, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, Cambridge University etc. etc. all state "Britain has left Europe". Maybe you need to have a word with their editors and tell them they're wrong:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2020/02/...
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/opinion-...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/07...
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/featured-reports/a...
https://observer.com/2016/07/after-brexit-britain-...

[Daaaveee]

Can we stop with the brexit rants before we're completely off topic please?

As previously highlighted, BritishVolt had no real product, and no orders. It was an ambitious plan to build something up from their start point. Its a shame it failed, but its not surprising.

Meanwhile Envision are well underway with the construction of their new Gigafactory across the road from Nissan in Sunderland. The result of a proven product and a good working relationship with their customer.

[Nomme de Plum]

Hammersia said:

The Guardian, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, Cambridge University etc. etc. all state "Britain has left Europe". Maybe you need to have a word with their editors and tell them they're wrong:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2020/02/...
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/opinion-...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/07...
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/featured-reports/a...
https://observer.com/2016/07/after-brexit-britain-...

I think you should brush up on geography. Europe is not the Eu. We have left the latter.

[Jon_Bmw]

What did the 230 employees do if they had no factory, no product and no order book?

[Hammersia]

Nomme de Plum said:

Hammersia said:

The Guardian, Forbes, New York Times, Washington Post, Cambridge University etc. etc. all state "Britain has left Europe". Maybe you need to have a word with their editors and tell them they're wrong:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2020/02/...
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/opinion-...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/07/07...
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/featured-reports/a...
https://observer.com/2016/07/after-brexit-britain-...

I think you should brush up on geography. Europe is not the Eu. We have left the latter.

Not me saying it. Please speak to the editor of the Guardian, cheers.

[Nomme de Plum]

Hammersia said:

Not me saying it. Please speak to the editor of the Guardian, cheers.

If you take your 'facts' from newspapers then you will likely be misled. Sloppy journalism or commentary does not by some miracle move the UK geographically from Europe which consists of more countries than are in the EU.

[Nomme de Plum]

Jon_Bmw said:

What did the 230 employees do if they had no factory, no product and no order book?

They may have been the development and design team. Just my guess though.

I used to be part of the team that built Class 1 clean rooms. A conditioned shell is required before any tools can be installed.

[sausage76]

Jon_Bmw said:

What did the 230 employees do if they had no factory, no product and no order book?

Work from home, design, sales, procurements, advertising, HR, directors, process engineers etc.

They had over 300 staff just before xmas when the last round of bad news hit and alot got out then.

They did have a product, just not alot and with no firm orders or backers was always a struggle for them