Dacia Spring

[smifffymoto]

It is available now in France to pre order.The base model,with government eco discount starts at 12,403€,which is very good value in my book.
If this is as good as the new Sandero(which I have)I can see Dacia gaining huge market share.

[Jag_NE]

That’s very impressive. Do you know what equivalent Uk pricing would be?

[jjwilde]

The tiny battery (26kwh) and the range claims (142miles) don't add up. This is just going to ps off people who buy it.

[Zoon]

Jag_NE said:

That’s very impressive. Do you know what equivalent Uk pricing would be?

It’s not confirmed for the UK market yet.

[Europa Jon]

jjwilde said:

The tiny battery (26kwh) and the range claims (142miles) don't add up. This is just going to ps off people who buy it.

Maybe their test route is all downhill!
If the PSA cars with 50kwh batteries can go 150 miles, the Dacia would be travelling way less than 100. This makes me think the 142 miles should be kilometres, then it'd be about right at 88 miles.
We mustn't be too negative about the Spring - it's made to be a cheap entry-level EV and there's nothing else comparable new for the money.

[HTP99]

jjwilde said:

The tiny battery (26kwh) and the range claims (142miles) don't add up. This is just going to ps off people who buy it.

22kWh ZOE would give 60-80 miles without trying too hard, 110 trying bloody hard (I've achieved that) with a claimed NEDC range of 150 miles, the Spring is 950kg (apparently) the ZOE is 1468 kg, trying hard I can see 120-130 miles on a charge.

Interesting it is available in Europe, there are concerns about its crash rating, it is based on the Indian Kwid which would achieve 0/1 NCAP score.

It is cheap but here in the UK we are badge snobs, far less so in mainland Europe.

Edited by HTP99 on Sunday 14th March 15:02

[Europa Jon]

Let's wait until the British version is on sale here. Then we'll know the price, range, NCAP rating, weight etc. They may even squeeze the Zoe's 50 kwh batteries in a dearer version, but I won't get too excited until it's available.

[HTP99]

Europa Jon said:

Let's wait until the British version is on sale here. Then we'll know the price, range, NCAP rating, weight etc. They may even squeeze the Zoe's 50 kwh batteries in a dearer version, but I won't get too excited until it's available.

Last I heard, there were no plans, however plans do change but I wouldn't expect it, if it did come over here, for a couple of years.

[croyde]

I've just bought a new petrol Duster, mighty impressed with it.

Looking forward to getting maybe 600 out of the tank without having to stop.

They have the right idea about an EV. They need to be cheap and simple, unlike current EVs.

I'd consider, if it could go 200miles between charges, similar urban range to my just sold 90s BMW.

[gangzoom]

Lots of love for Dacias it seems!! Pistonheads is a very different these days.

Though am fully aware owning an EV that I don't drive that much any more, and enjoying going out on B roads with the pedal bikes isn't very Pistonhead like either.

[raspy]

jjwilde said:

The tiny battery (26kwh) and the range claims (142miles) don't add up. This is just going to ps off people who buy it.

Why not? It runs on 14 inch wheels, and is relatively tiny. It's based on the Renault K-ZE, which has the same battery of 26.8 kWh and only weighs 921kg

I could only find one reference to weight of the Dacia Spring on the internet, with this site claiming it's 950kg https://ev-database.uk/car/1319/Dacia-Spring-Elect...

Do you really need a massive battery to shift 950kg of car?

WLTP range is calculated as an average across all four WLTP test cycles (‘low’= city driving;‘medium’= town; ‘high’= rural; ‘extra high’= motorway).

Furthermore, the WLTP range cited by Dacia in their press release is probably with the car's ECO mode enabled, which reduces power and limits top speed to 62mph, to offer 10% extra range when not using ECO mode.

[dapprman]

As others have said - light weight car, quote range will be WLTP which is always overly optomistic, however 52kW battery in a heavier Zoe and I was getting a legit 235/240 mile range during the summer, though that dropped to 190/200 in the autumn as the temperature hit single digits, so I would suspect as potential 120 mile real world range.

However, elephant in the room, launch piece I saw on it did say RHD model was only being made for India, so no plans for the UK.

[kambites]

raspy said:

Why not? It runs on 14 inch wheels, and is relatively tiny. It's based on the Renault K-ZE, which has the same battery of 26.8 kWh and only weighs 921kg

Weight really doesn't have much effect on range as long as you have a decent regenerative braking setup. It's really all about drive-train efficiency and CdA, and it hardly looks the most aerodynamic of cars even if it does OK on the A bit.

If it has a realistic motorway range of more than about 90 miles I'll be be very impressed. Which is not to say it's going to be a bad car - most people who buy this sort of car will rarely, if ever, to 90 mile journeys. If they can get it out here for under £15k, it'll sell some units.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 14th March 19:04

[rriggs]

There’s two issues here for me. First, the range is just not enough. I know it’s a city car but just not good enough. Secondly, when I have driven Dacias the quality of the interior and some of the fittings are cheap (obviously). I can forgive this in something that is cheap but I would want a £20k car to have a better interior than a cheap van.

[dapprman]

kambites said:

Weight really doesn't have much effect on range as long as you have a decent regenerative braking setup. It's really all about drive-train efficiency and CdA, and it hardly looks the most aerodynamic of cars even if it does OK on the A bit.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 14th March 19:04

You mean aside from the energy required to start moving the car adn then to maintain that movement ?

rriggs said:

There’s two issues here for me. First, the range is just not enough. I know it’s a city car but just not good enough. Secondly, when I have driven Dacias the quality of the interior and some of the fittings are cheap (obviously). I can forgive this in something that is cheap but I would want a £20k car to have a better interior than a cheap van.

Based on expected Euro prices you're talking about £12-13k, at which point it becomes a lot more attractive (considering I'm not sure it can actually go fast enough to be safe on then motorway).

[The Rotrex Kid]

I really don’t think we’ll see it over here TBH. I hope (for my wallets sake!) to be proven wrong!

[kambites]

dapprman said:

kambites said:

Weight really doesn't have much effect on range as long as you have a decent regenerative braking setup. It's really all about drive-train efficiency and CdA, and it hardly looks the most aerodynamic of cars even if it does OK on the A bit.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 14th March 19:04

You mean aside from the energy required to start moving the car adn then to maintain that movement ?

You don't need energy to keep something moving - it does that on its own unless it has a reason not to. Weight has a minor impact on things like mechanical drag in bearings, but it's pretty minimal. Whilst yes you need to put more energy in to accelerate a heavy car in the first place, you also get more back through regenerative braking.

Weight is obviously bad, regenerative braking is far from 100% efficient, but it has a far smaller effect on an EV's efficiency than an ICE car's. I think the most efficient EV on WLTP today is the Ioniq, which records just under 4.8 miles/kwh. This would need to get nearly 5.5 miles/kwh for that figure to be accurate.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 14th March 20:18

[rriggs]

dapprman said:

Based on expected Euro prices you're talking about £12-13k, at which point it becomes a lot more attractive (considering I'm not sure it can actually go fast enough to be safe on then motorway).

Yeah, looks like I read that wrong in the article I read I guess that’ll teach me for skimming over something rather than reading it all... £12-13k is better but the range still needs to be better (this applies to all EVs to be fair!)

[raspy]

kambites said:

Weight really doesn't have much effect on range as long as you have a decent regenerative braking setup. It's really all about drive-train efficiency and CdA, and it hardly looks the most aerodynamic of cars even if it does OK on the A bit.

If it has a realistic motorway range of more than about 90 miles I'll be be very impressed. Which is not to say it's going to be a bad car - most people who buy this sort of car will rarely, if ever, to 90 mile journeys. If they can get it out here for under £15k, it'll sell some units.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 14th March 19:04

Noted. Discussing motorway range for this type of car is largely irrelevant, given it's designed and marketed for people who only drive in urban environments and according to the press release,

"In Europe, the average daily driving distance is 31 km in the (A) city car segment. On this basis, the Spring would only need a single battery charge per week."

[kambites]

raspy said:

Noted. Discussing motorway range for this type of car is largely irrelevant, given it's designed and marketed for people who only drive in urban environments and according to the press release,

Agreed, but WLTP, unlike NEDC, has enough of a motorway speed component that the figure given above for this car is very surprising, verging on unbelievable.