Acceleration of new gen hybrids
Discussion
OK so I'm sure my next car will be elec or pet/elec hybrid. The missus has a 15 commute one way so the elec only is perfect and it can charge up overnight.
However every 2 weeks we drive from Coventry to Angelsey and back and the journey involves 1 hr motorway and 2 hrs on roads where you need an injection of acceleration to overtake those less heavy footed.
I see all the headline 0-60 figures are 6 or 7 sec and this is manageable but that's with the petrol AND elec being used together. So when that elec power runs out I'm back to sediatary acceleration again. Looking at the reviews of a few models including BMW x25e, new rav 4, xc40 T5 hybrid etc where the elec powers the rear they talk about you being able to select one of the 3 modes. But say I'm running in petrol only and quickly want the boost of the elec to overtake I'm assuming I have to change the drive mode manually. But how long does that boost last for before it runs out????
I know I'm asking the impossible as it's subjective but anyone offer their advice or wisdom from owning one?
However every 2 weeks we drive from Coventry to Angelsey and back and the journey involves 1 hr motorway and 2 hrs on roads where you need an injection of acceleration to overtake those less heavy footed.
I see all the headline 0-60 figures are 6 or 7 sec and this is manageable but that's with the petrol AND elec being used together. So when that elec power runs out I'm back to sediatary acceleration again. Looking at the reviews of a few models including BMW x25e, new rav 4, xc40 T5 hybrid etc where the elec powers the rear they talk about you being able to select one of the 3 modes. But say I'm running in petrol only and quickly want the boost of the elec to overtake I'm assuming I have to change the drive mode manually. But how long does that boost last for before it runs out????
I know I'm asking the impossible as it's subjective but anyone offer their advice or wisdom from owning one?
From my 10+ years experience of hybrids none of the driving modes allow you to disable the electric assistance element, the motor / battery will automatically kick in when maximum acceleration is required as long as there is some battery capacity remaining. As most hybrid systems are pretty much permanently harvesting energy back in to the battery pack I can not honestly remember a time when I have needed maximum acceleration and the hybrid element has not stepped in to support the ICE
You can select EV mode only but this generally works at below a pre-set max speed and only as long as you have sufficient battery power remaining
You can select EV mode only but this generally works at below a pre-set max speed and only as long as you have sufficient battery power remaining
Edited by Andy665 on Tuesday 14th January 18:43
I can't speak from experience so dismiss this as useless if you want, but do the roads requiring heavy acceleration also have corners requiring braking? If so then regen will be topping the batteries back up, along with the engine trickling in a bit of unused power on the steady speed bits.
The battery will not completely run out. It may not have sufficient energy to power the car but it will be recharged from the car running on the petrol motor and will retain sufficient energy for it to kick in and help the car under hard acceleration.
I have managed to drain the battery sufficiently to prevent it helping the petrol motor on 2 occasions. Both of these were on the continent with long motorway journeys. A very heavily laden car, clear roads so no braking or slowing down and extremely high speeds (higher than would be sensible in the UK) resulted in a warning that reduced power available as the battery was unavailable. After a short period of more normal driving speeds, to allow excess power from the petrol motor to go into the battery all was well again. Very extreme conditions and your concern is not something I would worry about.
I have managed to drain the battery sufficiently to prevent it helping the petrol motor on 2 occasions. Both of these were on the continent with long motorway journeys. A very heavily laden car, clear roads so no braking or slowing down and extremely high speeds (higher than would be sensible in the UK) resulted in a warning that reduced power available as the battery was unavailable. After a short period of more normal driving speeds, to allow excess power from the petrol motor to go into the battery all was well again. Very extreme conditions and your concern is not something I would worry about.
Think the OP is describing a PHEV rather than just a hybrid
My experience of the Golf GTE: Pure EV mode up to 80mph and very nippy up to 50mph in that mode
Hybrid fine for "normal" overtakes and hybrid even on a long journey will maintain some battery reserve so when need to use the GTE button
(ICE and battery) it's always available
My experience of the Golf GTE: Pure EV mode up to 80mph and very nippy up to 50mph in that mode
Hybrid fine for "normal" overtakes and hybrid even on a long journey will maintain some battery reserve so when need to use the GTE button
(ICE and battery) it's always availableI have a C350e which is a ‘bit’ more performance biased than most PHEV offerings and that goes pretty well when prompted, but one thing I have observed is that as battery charge drops, you lose volts of course, meaning you also lose some power. This translates into a loss of performance at low charge levels. You can really feel this when running on battery alone when near to ‘flat’. When left to it’s own devices in Comfort mode, it tries to retain a buffer of about 20% to aid performance and to allow electric cruising.
No doubt the different manufacturers have different strategies but I’d imagine most offer similar-ish.
No doubt the different manufacturers have different strategies but I’d imagine most offer similar-ish.
Thanks peeps, excuse my lack of correct terminology for the different types of vehicle. The type I'm considering is a PHEV where a petrol powers the front wheels and a separate elec motor powers the rear. If we look at the BMW 25e engine in the 225 (urgh) it states that you can have ** miles on single charge and that it can be recharged from a plug. That it has 3 modes of use and one of them is "save battery" where it states
"electric motor is spared from the drive process to preserve the charge for use later in your journey".
It doesn't talk about regenerative braking or recharging the battery on a journey giving the impression that when it's gone, it's gone. I know this is probably my anxiety but my concern is seeing an opportunity to overtake, starting to get past then the elec giving up as its nearly exhausted.
"electric motor is spared from the drive process to preserve the charge for use later in your journey".
It doesn't talk about regenerative braking or recharging the battery on a journey giving the impression that when it's gone, it's gone. I know this is probably my anxiety but my concern is seeing an opportunity to overtake, starting to get past then the elec giving up as its nearly exhausted.
Chris-S said:
I have a C350e which is a ‘bit’ more performance biased than most PHEV offerings and that goes pretty well when prompted, but one thing I have observed is that as battery charge drops, you lose volts of course, meaning you also lose some power. This translates into a loss of performance at low charge levels. You can really feel this when running on battery alone when near to ‘flat’. When left to it’s own devices in Comfort mode, it tries to retain a buffer of about 20% to aid performance and to allow electric cruising.
No doubt the different manufacturers have different strategies but I’d imagine most offer similar-ish.
hydrogen cars also suffer from this after periods of high loadNo doubt the different manufacturers have different strategies but I’d imagine most offer similar-ish.
You ask "But say I'm running in petrol only and quickly want the boost of the elec to overtake I'm assuming I have to change the drive mode manually."
I have a BMW 330e and often do long motorway trips like you mention. The 'eboost' as BMW call it is available in normal motoring, as the car always keeps between 3% and 15% of charge in the battery (depending on the drive setting 'Comfort' 'ECO Pro' etc) to power the boost when needed by generating it via the engine, or by regenerating from braking.
'Eboost' comes in automatically, there is no need to turn it on manually regardless of what mode you are driving in or the battery level.
The only time 'eboost' is not available is if you start the car with the battery very low, say less than 5%, you might get a warning message saying 'Electric Drive is not available' but after a few hundred metres driving the car has charged it back up again for it to start working.
Hope all this helps and makes sense.
I have a BMW 330e and often do long motorway trips like you mention. The 'eboost' as BMW call it is available in normal motoring, as the car always keeps between 3% and 15% of charge in the battery (depending on the drive setting 'Comfort' 'ECO Pro' etc) to power the boost when needed by generating it via the engine, or by regenerating from braking.
'Eboost' comes in automatically, there is no need to turn it on manually regardless of what mode you are driving in or the battery level.
The only time 'eboost' is not available is if you start the car with the battery very low, say less than 5%, you might get a warning message saying 'Electric Drive is not available' but after a few hundred metres driving the car has charged it back up again for it to start working.
Hope all this helps and makes sense.
S1bs said:
You ask "But say I'm running in petrol only and quickly want the boost of the elec to overtake I'm assuming I have to change the drive mode manually."
I have a BMW 330e and often do long motorway trips like you mention. The 'eboost' as BMW call it is available in normal motoring, as the car always keeps between 3% and 15% of charge in the battery (depending on the drive setting 'Comfort' 'ECO Pro' etc) to power the boost when needed by generating it via the engine, or by regenerating from braking.
'Eboost' comes in automatically, there is no need to turn it on manually regardless of what mode you are driving in or the battery level.
The only time 'eboost' is not available is if you start the car with the battery very low, say less than 5%, you might get a warning message saying 'Electric Drive is not available' but after a few hundred metres driving the car has charged it back up again for it to start working.
Hope all this helps and makes sense.
Thanks, yes it makes sense and the "always keeps some charge" is the answer I wanted. However the literature for the new X1 and X2 25e models does state that you can choose your driving mode and use just the engine or just the battery or both combined. I have a BMW 330e and often do long motorway trips like you mention. The 'eboost' as BMW call it is available in normal motoring, as the car always keeps between 3% and 15% of charge in the battery (depending on the drive setting 'Comfort' 'ECO Pro' etc) to power the boost when needed by generating it via the engine, or by regenerating from braking.
'Eboost' comes in automatically, there is no need to turn it on manually regardless of what mode you are driving in or the battery level.
The only time 'eboost' is not available is if you start the car with the battery very low, say less than 5%, you might get a warning message saying 'Electric Drive is not available' but after a few hundred metres driving the car has charged it back up again for it to start working.
Hope all this helps and makes sense.
Zcd1 said:
Why not just get a Tesla Model 3? Why lug around 2 separate drivetrains with all of the extra complexity and weight?
It is about £100 a month too prohibitive at the moment for us. Believe me i tried to make it work but i enjoy my lifestyle and that extra £100 would mean tightening the belts. Golf/Passat GTE.
Just needs a press of 1 button to engage both ICE and electric motor. Some may call it the Get There Earlier button. But not me, cos that's a bit sad.
Another press of the button and it's back to normal.
You can run in GTE mode permanently if you like but when battery approaches empty, it will burn more fuel to keep battery topped up. But then there's also battery charge mode for those occasions! Jesus there are more modes on these cars than tasteful radio stations.
Just needs a press of 1 button to engage both ICE and electric motor. Some may call it the Get There Earlier button. But not me, cos that's a bit sad.
Another press of the button and it's back to normal.
You can run in GTE mode permanently if you like but when battery approaches empty, it will burn more fuel to keep battery topped up. But then there's also battery charge mode for those occasions! Jesus there are more modes on these cars than tasteful radio stations.
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