Volkswagen - 1 million BEV by 2023
Discussion
Carmaker says it expects to reach 1m cars by end 2023 and 1.5m by end 2025.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/27/v...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/27/v...
Is there nothing that car company cannot do to try and get rid of dieselgate?
I'm actually surprised after all those fines they still have enough money to lead the german charge. Hats off to their current bigwigs.
Can they drag BMW and Mercs on the path? Yes they will, the internal German battle will move over to the EV world.
I'm actually surprised after all those fines they still have enough money to lead the german charge. Hats off to their current bigwigs.
Can they drag BMW and Mercs on the path? Yes they will, the internal German battle will move over to the EV world.
The reason for all these electric vehicles is, I think, the new EU rules:
"From 2021, phased in from 2020, the EU fleet-wide average emission target for new cars will be 95 g CO2/km. This emission level corresponds to a fuel consumption of around 4.1 l/100 km of petrol or 3.6 l/100 km of diesel. A phase-in period will apply to the target of 95 g/km. In 2020, the emission targets will apply for each manufacturer’s 95% least emitting new cars. From 2021 on, the average emissions of all newly registered cars of a manufacturer will have to be below the target.
If the average CO2 emissions of a manufacturer's fleet exceed its target in a given year, the manufacturer has to pay an excess emissions premium for each car registered. From 2019 on, the penalty will be €95 for each g/km of target exceedance."
Since no petrol or diesel vehicle can meet the 95 g CO2/km level, and the fines are massively expensive, to achieve the average, manufacturers must build electric cars in order to continue selling ICE ones. This means that manufacturers have to build a large number of BEVs. I wonder if they will have to sell them very cheaply to shift enough to keep the fleet average down.
"From 2021, phased in from 2020, the EU fleet-wide average emission target for new cars will be 95 g CO2/km. This emission level corresponds to a fuel consumption of around 4.1 l/100 km of petrol or 3.6 l/100 km of diesel. A phase-in period will apply to the target of 95 g/km. In 2020, the emission targets will apply for each manufacturer’s 95% least emitting new cars. From 2021 on, the average emissions of all newly registered cars of a manufacturer will have to be below the target.
If the average CO2 emissions of a manufacturer's fleet exceed its target in a given year, the manufacturer has to pay an excess emissions premium for each car registered. From 2019 on, the penalty will be €95 for each g/km of target exceedance."
Since no petrol or diesel vehicle can meet the 95 g CO2/km level, and the fines are massively expensive, to achieve the average, manufacturers must build electric cars in order to continue selling ICE ones. This means that manufacturers have to build a large number of BEVs. I wonder if they will have to sell them very cheaply to shift enough to keep the fleet average down.
Having had 2 recent vw built vans and seeing the build quality of what they think is acceptable now I reckon if they get anywhere near that we will see firegate or electrocutiongate happening soon after. The care taken on assembly of the wiring and the quality of materials would make renault blush on the current gen of vw output.
Just had my 2019 4k miles van in the dealer twice for an electrical fault, got it 30 yards out the gate of the dealer today and the fault reoccurred. One mechanic says it must be a control module, another said I probably put a screw through the loom putting my shelves in.
Rather than take it back on monday for more scatterpart guesswork I spent a couple of hours looking it over and found an unprotected bit of loom chafing on the body to the point it shorted , the 4 inch bit of conduit that was supposed to be at the sharp edge had been installed about 7 inches too far up the cable at the factory. I also found another 2 bits on different areas where the strain relief and conduit were in the wrong place and had started rubbing through the fabric loom binding tape but hadn't yet shorted but it was in the post. Finally i found a control module where they had totally messed up the routing to the point where the loom was trying to rip the module off its mounting permanently, it was distorting the hard plastic bracket, and one of the wires in particular was taught like a guitar string. I had to remove a parts and snip the cable ties and reroute everything as the designers intended. That was what I found on the small amount of the loom I could easily access on the driveway in the dark.
This van is the replacement for the one I bought last year which had many major failures then caught fire on a customers driveway.
You don't want that sort of carelessness around high voltage and very energy dense explosive batteries.
Just had my 2019 4k miles van in the dealer twice for an electrical fault, got it 30 yards out the gate of the dealer today and the fault reoccurred. One mechanic says it must be a control module, another said I probably put a screw through the loom putting my shelves in.
Rather than take it back on monday for more scatterpart guesswork I spent a couple of hours looking it over and found an unprotected bit of loom chafing on the body to the point it shorted , the 4 inch bit of conduit that was supposed to be at the sharp edge had been installed about 7 inches too far up the cable at the factory. I also found another 2 bits on different areas where the strain relief and conduit were in the wrong place and had started rubbing through the fabric loom binding tape but hadn't yet shorted but it was in the post. Finally i found a control module where they had totally messed up the routing to the point where the loom was trying to rip the module off its mounting permanently, it was distorting the hard plastic bracket, and one of the wires in particular was taught like a guitar string. I had to remove a parts and snip the cable ties and reroute everything as the designers intended. That was what I found on the small amount of the loom I could easily access on the driveway in the dark.
This van is the replacement for the one I bought last year which had many major failures then caught fire on a customers driveway.
You don't want that sort of carelessness around high voltage and very energy dense explosive batteries.
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Saturday 28th December 23:41
Edited by topsey.mod on Monday 30th December 09:00
connoisseur21 said:
Wow, ev discussion and potential ownership finally reaches the uk massif. A major milestone suitably marked by a lo iq idiot seemingly unable to resist finding a reason to include mention of 'nazis'. Basil Fawlty lives he heh
Have I ever done anything to you?Why do you feel the need to hurl personal insults. Everything I typed is 100% accurate and verifiable and if facts offend you that is your problem. I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to anybodies face, but I suspect you wouldn't speak to me like that in person, but you are billy big balls behind a keyboard.
The company had a dubious start, cranked out some decent products for a while but now they are turning out dangerous defective junk and have a very recent history of some very shady illegal practice. I was pointing out the current quality of their electrical wiring can be dangerously sub standard which is quite relevant to the topic.
kambites said:
Looking at the numbers, one million cars by 2023 would be around 1% of their passenger car sales in that time, which makes it sound somewhat less impressive.
VW/Audi make about 10 million a year.What is by 2023? Is that 2020/21/22 ? So 3 years , 30 million cars 1:30 or about 3% I guess?
Ramp up past that will be fast through the 2020s, but I suspect at least half of cars produced will still be ice (mostly hybrid) by 2030, we just cant build batteries (make factories and supply the resources for) fast enough for more
Edit -
Ok its by the end of 2023.. And they must have 200,000 egolfs out already? So yeah perhaps 1%
Edited by RobDickinson on Sunday 29th December 19:39
kambites said:
Looking at the numbers, one million cars by 2023 would be around 1% of their passenger car sales in that time, which makes it sound somewhat less impressive.
Going from no evs, to being capable of making and , as importantly, marketing and selling a million, in multiple markets and in multiple shapes and designs is a little impressive 
Have I ever done anything to you?
Why do you feel the need to hurl personal insults. Everything I typed is 100% accurate and verifiable and if facts offend you that is your problem. I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to anybodies face, but I suspect you wouldn't speak to me like that in person, but you are billy big balls behind a keyboard.
The company had a dubious start, cranked out some decent products for a while but now they are turning out dangerous defective junk and have a very recent history of some very shady illegal practice. I was pointing out the current quality of their electrical wiring can be dangerously sub standard which is quite relevant to the topic.
[/quote]
No you weren't, you were indulging in lazy stereotype racism against Germans, bringing up a disastrous war from 75yrs ago which you and your type never saw, and never would. Racism is to be called out wherever it is found, and I do so online or face to face, wherever it happens. You should know better, but it's just soo easy to be racist hiding behind a keyboard eh....
Why do you feel the need to hurl personal insults. Everything I typed is 100% accurate and verifiable and if facts offend you that is your problem. I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to anybodies face, but I suspect you wouldn't speak to me like that in person, but you are billy big balls behind a keyboard.
The company had a dubious start, cranked out some decent products for a while but now they are turning out dangerous defective junk and have a very recent history of some very shady illegal practice. I was pointing out the current quality of their electrical wiring can be dangerously sub standard which is quite relevant to the topic.
[/quote]
No you weren't, you were indulging in lazy stereotype racism against Germans, bringing up a disastrous war from 75yrs ago which you and your type never saw, and never would. Racism is to be called out wherever it is found, and I do so online or face to face, wherever it happens. You should know better, but it's just soo easy to be racist hiding behind a keyboard eh....
hyphen said:
Going from no evs, to being capable of making and , as importantly, marketing and selling a million, in multiple markets and in multiple shapes and designs is a little impressive
The E-Golf has been out years and is already has sales in six figures. There's also the E-Up although I don't think I've ever seen one. It's a respectable number, I was just pointing out that 1m sounds a lot more impressive than 1% (although as someone pointed out above it might actually be closer to 2%). They're basically saying that in four years time they will have caught up with the current UK BEV market share.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 29th December 20:51
connoisseur21 said:
Have I ever done anything to you?
Why do you feel the need to hurl personal insults. Everything I typed is 100% accurate and verifiable and if facts offend you that is your problem. I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to anybodies face, but I suspect you wouldn't speak to me like that in person, but you are billy big balls behind a keyboard.
The company had a dubious start, cranked out some decent products for a while but now they are turning out dangerous defective junk and have a very recent history of some very shady illegal practice. I was pointing out the current quality of their electrical wiring can be dangerously sub standard which is quite relevant to the topic.
Why do you feel the need to hurl personal insults. Everything I typed is 100% accurate and verifiable and if facts offend you that is your problem. I haven't said anything I wouldn't say to anybodies face, but I suspect you wouldn't speak to me like that in person, but you are billy big balls behind a keyboard.
The company had a dubious start, cranked out some decent products for a while but now they are turning out dangerous defective junk and have a very recent history of some very shady illegal practice. I was pointing out the current quality of their electrical wiring can be dangerously sub standard which is quite relevant to the topic.
someone said:
No you weren't, you were indulging in lazy stereotype racism against Germans, bringing up a disastrous war from 75yrs ago which you and your type never saw, and never would. Racism is to be called out wherever it is found, and I do so online or face to face, wherever it happens. You should know better, but it's just soo easy to be racist hiding behind a keyboard eh....
Calm down dear, all those vw diesel fumes must going to your head! (At a very safe level according to VW).Edited by WonkeyDonkey on Sunday 29th December 21:04
Edited by WonkeyDonkey on Sunday 29th December 21:05
connoisseur21 said:
No you weren't, you were indulging in lazy stereotype racism against Germans, bringing up a disastrous war from 75yrs ago which you and your type never saw, and never would. Racism is to be called out wherever it is found, and I do so online or face to face, wherever it happens. You should know better, but it's just soo easy to be racist hiding behind a keyboard eh....
Nazis aren't a race, and I don't equate all german cars with the third reich, but VW was directly founded by hitler and the nazis, It is history, it is a fact. I remember conversations with my grandad about it when I was young, as I was a petrolhead from the moment I could talk. He could never bring himself to buy a german car, as he had a hard time as a Jew in egypt, although they were supposed to be neutral and allowed allies to be stationed there there were a lot of nazi sympathisers in power. He never grudged my parents from getting a german car though, and he stocked german products in his shop. He always said you should always look forward but never forget history.When VW make claims about what they are going to do, those claims should be taken in the context of what they are doing right now, putting out defective vehicles, what they have done in the very recent past, significant emissions fraud then downgrading customers vehicles after sale, further back in history to bumping all the germans who saved up for the original beetle with the savings stamps, and also back to their historical foundation.
What is it about that which gets you so aggressive?
To be truthful though, if you did try to defend nazis to my face i would probably lose my composure.
I don't appreciate being called a racist, being a quarter eqyptian, quarter ulster, quarter scottish and quarter belgian wasnt an easy combo growing up in a scheme. It was common at school to be asked why did I have a
grandad.Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Sunday 29th December 21:18
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