Plug In hybrids & Adv Fuel Rates & Merc DE opinions?

[wassap]

Hi Folks,

I'll be looking to change my Company car early next year, as much as i love my XC60, paying tax is not pleasent!

So im thinking about moving to a plug in hybrid, something like the Merc C300 DE. I will be charging, but id like to still have the option of having decent MPG with no charge, i currently do 23k a year.

But I noticed the advisory fuel rate is 11ppm for a <2000cc. The merc comes in at 1950cc, im wondering (or hoping lol) if they round up the CC? As >2000c means you get 14ppm.

Also does anyone have experience of the Merc C300 DE, what sort of MPG do you get with no charge?

Other options could be the Passat estate GTE or the Superb IV, the BMW 3 series touring wont be out for ages

Thanks

[Scrump]

The cc is not rounded up. Can’t help with the other questions.

[Throttle Body]

The first budget of the new government is expected in February. I wonder if Javid will take the opportunity to set out a new, long term tax structure for vehicles. In particular, will plug-in hybrids be treated more like electric vehicles or ICE vehicles?

It seems to me that plug-in hybrids are now a great compromise between ICE and electric vehicles for most people's main family car - so long as you plug them in!

[wassap]

For me the only charging option is at home. I generally work from home, but im on the road for 3 days a week, and apart from a couple of my customers i wouldnt be able to charge on the bulk of my trips. So the Diesel PHEV makes more sense due to the improved economy when the charge has run out. Its going to be a close call between going for PHEV or sticking to diesel, as its only 11ppm that i can claim for the diesel PHEV, as for the diesel we get a pseudo fuel card where they still pay for the fuel, my private fuel cost is taken out of the pay at the end of the month, so im reliatively shielded from the increase in pump prices.

Sadly with our place the PUC required for a PHEV means that I dont fully benefit from the lower tax

[Ardennes92]

Throttle Body said:

The first budget of the new government is expected in February. I wonder if Javid will take the opportunity to set out a new, long term tax structure for vehicles. In particular, will plug-in hybrids be treated more like electric vehicles or ICE vehicles?

It seems to me that plug-in hybrids are now a great compromise between ICE and electric vehicles for most people's main family car - so long as you plug them in!

Personally if it has got an ice it should be treated as one as the environmental cost of ice and batteries/motor is increased

[Throttle Body]

Ardennes92 said:

Personally if it has got an ice it should be treated as one as the environmental cost of ice and batteries/motor is increased

I can understand why you say that. From a personal perspective, a fully electric vehicle is going to be a pain on long family journeys and holidays because of the inconvenience of recharging. However, I genuinely do want to cut down my personal contribution to air pollution, and to a lesser extent, carbon emissions, and I think that this would be a good, practical, way to do it.

[SWoll]

Throttle Body said:

Ardennes92 said:

Personally if it has got an ice it should be treated as one as the environmental cost of ice and batteries/motor is increased

I can understand why you say that. From a personal perspective, a fully electric vehicle is going to be a pain on long family journeys and holidays because of the inconvenience of recharging. However, I genuinely do want to cut down my personal contribution to air pollution, and to a lesser extent, carbon emissions, and I think that this would be a good, practical, way to do it.

How often do you make these long journeys where an EV would be an inconvenience out of interest? I ask as have heard any number of times posters state they can't go EV because adding 30 minutes to a journey a handful of times a year is unacceptable, which seems utterly ridiculous to me.

As you mention above the big problem with PHEV is that people get lazy and don't bother charging them as cost savings are limited. They'll purely get them to reap any benefits in tax etc. which is why they don't get the same level of support.

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 22 December 23:36

[HookyBeerMan]

I disagree. My current PHEV - total mileage 73367, electric distance driven 27351. Over a third of my mileage in the last 30 months has been electric only. My driving profile doesn't yet work for full electric, but I can very much see myself in a pure electric in the next few years. At the moment a PHEV is a stepping stone from diesel to pure electric, and everybody I know who has one religiously plugs them in. Its free fuel from our point of view....

[Throttle Body]

SWoll said:

How often do you make these long journeys where an EV would be an inconvenience out of interest? I ask as have heard any number of times posters state they can't go EV because adding 30 minutes to a journey a handful of times a year is unacceptable, which seems utterly ridiculous to me.

My answer to that question is to quote comments from a couple of EV advocates (for whom I have respect) who were giving advice to someone doing a 300 mile journey for the first time, and which say it all for me:

gangzoom said:

To make your life easier avoid Ecotricity unless you have no other choice, makes sure you have a 'Plan B' in case the charger your planning to use isn't working, and leave extra time incase you need to detour/drive at 50mph to make it to your destination.

Also don't forget to check weather, wind direction, which will decrease range.

Welcome to long distance EV motoring smile

Hobo said:

As above, have a Plan A and Plan B charger just in case smile Is it 300 miles return or one way? Ideally you'd use destination charging when there on a 7kW post. I'd plan to stop and charge back up to ~80% after about 180 miles and also stick to 70mph.

It will be a learning experience and go in with your eyes wide open, it might not be totally smooth sailing until you get used to planning!

Basically, the days of a long car journey being an expedition ended in about 1945. I really do look forward to the day when the charging network is well enough developed to support normal use.

[SWoll]

What % of people do you think do 300 mile trips even once a year? I've not done that kind of distance one way in the last 10 years and covered 25k miles per year up until recently. Even 300 miles round trip in a day is an exceptionally rare occurrence.

This is where Tesla have a real advantage though for anyone who does. Superchargers dotted all over the motorway network and beyond, fast charging and lots of bays. Not hard to plan in a 30 minute stop to stretch you legs, have a coffee etc in a very occasional 5 hour trip?

[Gojira]

SWoll said:

What % of people do you think do 300 mile trips even once a year? I've not done that kind of distance one way in the last 10 years and covered 25k miles per year up until recently. Even 300 miles round trip in a day is an exceptionally rare occurrence.

This is where Tesla have a real advantage though for anyone who does. Superchargers dotted all over the motorway network and beyond, fast charging and lots of bays. Not hard to plan in a 30 minute stop to stretch you legs, have a coffee etc in a very occasional 5 hour trip?

Hmm, I'll do about 280 miles on Saturday taking SWMBO to visit her sister and her neice either side of Salisbury, a trip we do most months, and it isn't possible to charge while we're there, unless I take a 250 yard extension lead

I've had a look, and there appear to be no Superchargers within about 10-15 miles of my route?

And if I was to suggest to SWMBO that we'd need to add even an extra half hour to the journey, I'd not be very popular - the point is to spend time with family.

Another fairly regular journey is up to Glasgow which is again about 280 miles each way, with no Supercharger within miles of my destination that I can find.

In the fairly recent past, I've got bored and driven to Great Yarmouth and back which is just about 400 miles in a day.

I don't do 25,000 miles a year, more like 10-12,000, but I do plenty of long journeys.

I'm happy to accept that I'm an exception, but those are the miles I do, probably at least once a month!

I'm sure both the car ranges and the charger networks will improve between now and when I replace my XE, but at the moment, they don't do what I need.

Once I can get something that will do a genuine 350 miles on a charge, on the motorways in winter, that isn't any more expensive than my XE, I'll be interested.

[SWoll]

Gojira said:

I'm happy to accept that I'm an exception, but those are the miles I do, probably at least once a month!

Totally agree that they won't work for everyone's circumstances but as you say your use is exceptional rather than the norm, which is why I commented on this.

Throttle Body said:

Basically, the days of a long car journey being an expedition ended in about 1945. I really do look forward to the day when the charging network is well enough developed to support normal use.

300+ mile trips are very obviously not normal use for the vast majority of drivers, even occasionally.

[Pica-Pica]

SWoll said:

Gojira said:

I'm happy to accept that I'm an exception, but those are the miles I do, probably at least once a month!

Totally agree that they won't work for everyone's circumstances but as you say your use is exceptional rather than the norm, which is why I commented on this.

Throttle Body said:

Basically, the days of a long car journey being an expedition ended in about 1945. I really do look forward to the day when the charging network is well enough developed to support normal use.

.

300+ mile trips are very obviously not normal use for the vast majority of drivers, even occasionally.

Oh but they are. I do 350 each way, once a month and 100 mile each way twice a month. On the 350 mile trip (North Wales to Kent) there are several routes I can take, and I do not wish to be dictated as to when, where, and how long I have to stop (which I sometimes limit to 20 minutes). I specifically have my car for long trips, for local trips I can walk or get the bus

[SWoll]

Pica-Pica said:

SWoll said:

Gojira said:

I'm happy to accept that I'm an exception, but those are the miles I do, probably at least once a month!

Totally agree that they won't work for everyone's circumstances but as you say your use is exceptional rather than the norm, which is why I commented on this.

Throttle Body said:

Basically, the days of a long car journey being an expedition ended in about 1945. I really do look forward to the day when the charging network is well enough developed to support normal use.

.

300+ mile trips are very obviously not normal use for the vast majority of drivers, even occasionally.

Oh but they are. I do 350 each way, once a month and 100 mile each way twice a month. On the 350 mile trip (North Wales to Kent) there are several routes I can take, and I do not wish to be dictated as to when, where, and how long I have to stop (which I sometimes limit to 20 minutes). I specifically have my car for long trips, for local trips I can walk or get the bus

Average UK annual mileage is 7.5k according to 2018 MOT tests, average daily commute is < 30 miles round trip.

Anecdotal evidence from a handful of posters who do big mileages does not make it normal practice for the wider population. Not sure what's so difficult to understand or are people unable to see past their own experiences? No-one has ever suggested EV's currently suit everyone, just a lot more than certain parites would have you believe.

[wassap]

Throttle Body said:

The first budget of the new government is expected in February. I wonder if Javid will take the opportunity to set out a new, long term tax structure for vehicles. In particular, will plug-in hybrids be treated more like electric vehicles or ICE vehicles?

I though all the rates and taxes were set till 22/23 now? I doubt we'll see anything refgarding company cars, certainly nothing to make the tax burden any less

[CaterBram]

I've been running a Mercedes C350e for the last 3 years, averaging 52mpg between petrol and Electric.

going for a Mercedes C300de AMG Estate, route, being delivered mid April

BIK Rates have been published, best reference chart is the one on Next Green Cars
https://www.nextgreencar.com/company-car-tax/bik-r...

If registered before 6th April, you are looking at 12% BIK for 20-21/ 21-22 / 22-23 tax years

If registered after 6th April, you are looking at 10%BIK in 20-21, 11% BIK in 21-22 and 12% BIK in 22-23

[Pica-Pica]

SWoll said:

Pica-Pica said:

SWoll said:

Gojira said:

I'm happy to accept that I'm an exception, but those are the miles I do, probably at least once a month!

Totally agree that they won't work for everyone's circumstances but as you say your use is exceptional rather than the norm, which is why I commented on this.

Throttle Body said:

Basically, the days of a long car journey being an expedition ended in about 1945. I really do look forward to the day when the charging network is well enough developed to support normal use.

.

300+ mile trips are very obviously not normal use for the vast majority of drivers, even occasionally.

Oh but they are. I do 350 each way, once a month and 100 mile each way twice a month. On the 350 mile trip (North Wales to Kent) there are several routes I can take, and I do not wish to be dictated as to when, where, and how long I have to stop (which I sometimes limit to 20 minutes). I specifically have my car for long trips, for local trips I can walk or get the bus

Average UK annual mileage is 7.5k according to 2018 MOT tests, average daily commute is < 30 miles round trip.

Anecdotal evidence from a handful of posters who do big mileages does not make it normal practice for the wider population. Not sure what's so difficult to understand or are people unable to see past their own experiences? No-one has ever suggested EV's currently suit everyone, just a lot more than certain parites would have you believe.

Define average, and quote source (otherwise just ‘anecdotal’).

[SWoll]

Pica-Pica said:

Define average, and quote source (otherwise just ‘anecdotal’).

https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobili...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Hopefully more accurate than just basing it on my experience and that of some bloke I know?

[Throttle Body]

SWoll said:

Pica-Pica said:

Oh but they are. I do 350 each way, once a month and 100 mile each way twice a month. On the 350 mile trip (North Wales to Kent) there are several routes I can take, and I do not wish to be dictated as to when, where, and how long I have to stop (which I sometimes limit to 20 minutes). I specifically have my car for long trips, for local trips I can walk or get the bus

Average UK annual mileage is 7.5k according to 2018 MOT tests, average daily commute is < 30 miles round trip.

Anecdotal evidence from a handful of posters who do big mileages does not make it normal practice for the wider population. Not sure what's so difficult to understand or are people unable to see past their own experiences? No-one has ever suggested EV's currently suit everyone, just a lot more than certain parites would have you believe.

Averages tell you nothing about how people actually use their cars, and doing a low average annual mileage doesn't mean that you don't do long journeys. My average journey length is probably about 8 miles, which sounds like an EV would be ideal, but I make 3 or 4 journeys a year from Kent to places like the Lake District, North Wales and the like, which are not yet well suited to EVs. My annual mileage is quite low at about 6,000 miles, but this doesn't mean that I don't do long journeys. Every person has their own unique pattern of journeys.

I completely agree with you that EVs don't suit everyone.

[CaterBram]

Especially if you are also towing :-)