Talk to me about electric cars
Discussion
I'm seriously considering my next taxi will be a BEV. However, I'm confused by the jargon and a bit concerned about the range.
It must have room for five adults including the driver, have four doors and be less than five years old. Ideally not massively expensive to purchase, so no new Tesla X.
Nissan Leaf seems to tick the boxes, but what realistically can I expect range wise and how long does it take to charge from empty? I'm comfortable plugging it in overnight, but what if it needs a top up during the day? My fossil fuel taxis do about 300 miles a day, but I suspect that is a bridge too far for battery cars at this moment in time.
What am I missing? Or are BEV not quite there yet for me?
It must have room for five adults including the driver, have four doors and be less than five years old. Ideally not massively expensive to purchase, so no new Tesla X.
Nissan Leaf seems to tick the boxes, but what realistically can I expect range wise and how long does it take to charge from empty? I'm comfortable plugging it in overnight, but what if it needs a top up during the day? My fossil fuel taxis do about 300 miles a day, but I suspect that is a bridge too far for battery cars at this moment in time.
What am I missing? Or are BEV not quite there yet for me?
I suppose it will depend on what the breakdown of your daily journeys is, how much is motorway mileage (uses a lot more battery), how long you wait between appointments (time to top up), whether there’s a rapid charger nearby, whether you could fit a charger at your base, how many other cars you have in the taxi fleet etc.
Nissan Leaf 30kWh - roughly 100 miles around town and commuting.
Nissan Leaf 40kWh - roughly 130 miles around town and commuting.
On a rapid charger (50kW) you’ll add around 30 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
On a fast charger (6.6kW) you’ll add around 4 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
There’s a taxi company in Cornwall (C&C) who have been using Nissan Leafs for a while now - I don’t know exactly how they manage the day to day charging, but I’ve got one of their old cars with 150000 miles on it, and it’s still going (well, it needed a new battery, but after that sort of mileage and being rapid charged multiple times every day, it’s not surprising).
BEV is great but it requires a bit more planning if you want to do more miles than a single charge in a day can hold, especially when it’s business related. I’m happy to sit about for 20 minutes while the car charges enough to get where I’m going, but I work for a company who make the charging equipment, so they’re also happy for me to sit about if it’s work related, and for personal use I need to stop for a pee anyway!
Nissan Leaf 30kWh - roughly 100 miles around town and commuting.
Nissan Leaf 40kWh - roughly 130 miles around town and commuting.
On a rapid charger (50kW) you’ll add around 30 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
On a fast charger (6.6kW) you’ll add around 4 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
There’s a taxi company in Cornwall (C&C) who have been using Nissan Leafs for a while now - I don’t know exactly how they manage the day to day charging, but I’ve got one of their old cars with 150000 miles on it, and it’s still going (well, it needed a new battery, but after that sort of mileage and being rapid charged multiple times every day, it’s not surprising).
BEV is great but it requires a bit more planning if you want to do more miles than a single charge in a day can hold, especially when it’s business related. I’m happy to sit about for 20 minutes while the car charges enough to get where I’m going, but I work for a company who make the charging equipment, so they’re also happy for me to sit about if it’s work related, and for personal use I need to stop for a pee anyway!
Hmm. Charging wouldn't be a problem between jobs, as I'm office based and just go out to cover when we are busy.
However, a lot of mileage is done on the M5, A361, A38. By no means all the mileage but perhaps 50%.
So charging is not done by plugging in to the mains then? I need a specialist charger?
However, a lot of mileage is done on the M5, A361, A38. By no means all the mileage but perhaps 50%.
So charging is not done by plugging in to the mains then? I need a specialist charger?
Yes and no. There are different types of charger:
“Granny” Charger - a 13 amp plug on one end and a plug for the car on the other. Very slow, about 16 hours to charge the battery completely. One of these comes with the car.
“Fast” Charger - a box on the wall connected to your (normally single phase) mains that you plug the car into Draws up to 32A. This is normally what you’d have at home. Cost about £500.
“Rapid” Charger - installed and maintained by a variety of third parties in seemingly random locations. Biggest companies are Ecotricity (motorway), Polar and Instavolt. This is where it gets messy, each company has its own bespoke app and payment mechanism, contactless isn’t widely adopted yet. This bit is why BEV is harder work than ICE for longer distances at the moment, you need to plan and allow for chargers not working, being in use etc.
You can get an app called Zap Map which shows all the different chargers, so you should be able to work out if there are rapid chargers near to where you’re located and whether this will therefore work when you’re out and about (if you need to, depends on the distance you’re covering).
The Zap map website has loads of useful information, as does the SpeakEV forum.
You could get a rapid charger installed at the office, but they’re expensive - I don’t have an accurate price, but £30k wouldn’t be too far out for a 50kW job.
What sort of distance do you need to do before either returning to base or being able to stop for half an hour without inconveniencing customers?
“Granny” Charger - a 13 amp plug on one end and a plug for the car on the other. Very slow, about 16 hours to charge the battery completely. One of these comes with the car.
“Fast” Charger - a box on the wall connected to your (normally single phase) mains that you plug the car into Draws up to 32A. This is normally what you’d have at home. Cost about £500.
“Rapid” Charger - installed and maintained by a variety of third parties in seemingly random locations. Biggest companies are Ecotricity (motorway), Polar and Instavolt. This is where it gets messy, each company has its own bespoke app and payment mechanism, contactless isn’t widely adopted yet. This bit is why BEV is harder work than ICE for longer distances at the moment, you need to plan and allow for chargers not working, being in use etc.
You can get an app called Zap Map which shows all the different chargers, so you should be able to work out if there are rapid chargers near to where you’re located and whether this will therefore work when you’re out and about (if you need to, depends on the distance you’re covering).
The Zap map website has loads of useful information, as does the SpeakEV forum.
You could get a rapid charger installed at the office, but they’re expensive - I don’t have an accurate price, but £30k wouldn’t be too far out for a 50kW job.
What sort of distance do you need to do before either returning to base or being able to stop for half an hour without inconveniencing customers?
Dave Hedgehog said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Typically I would do a max of an hour's driving, perhaps two. But that would virtually flatten a full charge I think.
Depends on the car, I get about 14 hours of commuting in London on one charge in my M3If that’s two hours at 70mph with a customer and you couldn’t stop, it’s probably a bit much for a Leaf within a sensible budget.
If it’s an hour with a customer at 70mph and you can then charge for 20 minutes and then drive back again, that’s do-able.
If it’s two hours of trundling around town, no problem, and you can then charge back at base.
Have you considered a Tesla Model 3?
That said, if using a Tesla for commercial use i.e. a taxi then I think the Tesla terms and conditions do not allow you to use their super charger network.
I could well be wrong about this, but worth checking before you commit to a Tesla.
That said, if using a Tesla for commercial use i.e. a taxi then I think the Tesla terms and conditions do not allow you to use their super charger network.
I could well be wrong about this, but worth checking before you commit to a Tesla.
Edited by Notreallymeeither on Sunday 10th November 19:09
Notreallymeeither said:
Have you considered a Tesla Model 3?
That said, if using a Tesla for commercial use i.e. a taxi then I think the Tesla terms and conditions do not allow you to use their super charger network.
I could well be wrong about this, but worth checking before you commit to a Tesla.
https://www.tesla.com/en_NZ/about/legal?#supercharger-fair-useThat said, if using a Tesla for commercial use i.e. a taxi then I think the Tesla terms and conditions do not allow you to use their super charger network.
I could well be wrong about this, but worth checking before you commit to a Tesla.
Yep not allowed, you get spotted and reported and they could block you, but plenty other CCS chargers around.
Check out this Taxi drivers youtube channel, he gets about 320miles of range in London, lasts him all day.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8F2JWz_IR4eO1b4P...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8F2JWz_IR4eO1b4P...
Ollie1991EV said:
But on the drive in and out of London are there any (queue-free) Charging Points? I would be travelling up from Brighton and I never seem to see any.
http://abetterrouteplanner.com/kuro68k said:
Ollie1991EV said:
But on the drive in and out of London are there any (queue-free) Charging Points? I would be travelling up from Brighton and I never seem to see any.
London to Brighton and back with a 250+ mile range EV doesn't need en-route charging.SimpleSimonSays said:
I suppose it will depend on what the breakdown of your daily journeys is, how much is motorway mileage (uses a lot more battery), how long you wait between appointments (time to top up), whether there’s a rapid charger nearby, whether you could fit a charger at your base, how many other cars you have in the taxi fleet etc.
Nissan Leaf 30kWh - roughly 100 miles around town and commuting.
Nissan Leaf 40kWh - roughly 130 miles around town and commuting.
On a rapid charger (50kW) you’ll add around 30 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
On a fast charger (6.6kW) you’ll add around 4 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
There’s a taxi company in Cornwall (C&C) who have been using Nissan Leafs for a while now - I don’t know exactly how they manage the day to day charging, but I’ve got one of their old cars with 150000 miles on it, and it’s still going (well, it needed a new battery, but after that sort of mileage and being rapid charged multiple times every day, it’s not surprising).
BEV is great but it requires a bit more planning if you want to do more miles than a single charge in a day can hold, especially when it’s business related. I’m happy to sit about for 20 minutes while the car charges enough to get where I’m going, but I work for a company who make the charging equipment, so they’re also happy for me to sit about if it’s work related, and for personal use I need to stop for a pee anyway!
Do you know at what millage the battery was changed and how many capacity bars it had left. Also did they get a new or 2nd hand battery, I've seen a few on eBay.Nissan Leaf 30kWh - roughly 100 miles around town and commuting.
Nissan Leaf 40kWh - roughly 130 miles around town and commuting.
On a rapid charger (50kW) you’ll add around 30 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
On a fast charger (6.6kW) you’ll add around 4 miles of range for every 10 minutes charging.
There’s a taxi company in Cornwall (C&C) who have been using Nissan Leafs for a while now - I don’t know exactly how they manage the day to day charging, but I’ve got one of their old cars with 150000 miles on it, and it’s still going (well, it needed a new battery, but after that sort of mileage and being rapid charged multiple times every day, it’s not surprising).
BEV is great but it requires a bit more planning if you want to do more miles than a single charge in a day can hold, especially when it’s business related. I’m happy to sit about for 20 minutes while the car charges enough to get where I’m going, but I work for a company who make the charging equipment, so they’re also happy for me to sit about if it’s work related, and for personal use I need to stop for a pee anyway!
granada203028 said:
Do you know at what millage the battery was changed and how many capacity bars it had left. Also did they get a new or 2nd hand battery, I've seen a few on eBay.
Around 150k, was showing at 9 bars but the battery was completely shot, only 23 miles range and discharge wasn’t linear, so we suspect one or more cells had died.It was a second hand pack from eBay, and it’s reliably returning 100+ miles in summer now.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff