My thoughts on a weekend with a 2015 Nissan Leaf 24Kw Acenta
Discussion
Well, I could be seriously tempted to be honest.
Driving:
I was well well, well impressed. The performance pleased me muchly.
Like..on Saturday morning, I was on an errand at 7am to collect a parcel from the Royal Mail depot….the roads were v quiet….so I took off from a set of lights onto a DC and climbed to an indicated 99.... (where it seemed to be limited to) in what seemed like no time at all. The other traffic that was at the lights behind me….were nowhere to be seen.
And all of this in near silence (other than a bit of wind and road noise). You do get a little whine from the motor….but even that it amplified. You can turn this ‘sound’ off…and when you do, it really is almost silent. Too quiet for pedestrians etc, I left the sound on.
I later timed a 0-60 twice on a local straight flat road, and they came out as 8.8 and 9.0s which isn’t amazing by any stretch….but I gather the 0-30 and 0-40 times will be more impressive.
It was just like….really responsive effortless performance! The lack of any gearchanges just gives a seamless pull, which is very satisfying. It’s strange though….it doesn’t feel like ‘push you into the back of your seat’ kinda ‘go’….it just feels lively and sprightly.
Sadly…..a bit of this driving really does get the range down. But I’ll keep talking about the good stuff before turning to the less good.
Other good stuff – it rides and handles nicely. The ride has a generally soft edge so it’s quite comfortable – but not wallowy. The handing is good! I’m guessing because of the batteries being all down the middle of the floor must work wonders for CoG. The steering is light…but not bad, I’ve used much worse.
The brakes are a bit weird. They are the only bit of the driving where you get the sense there is a compromise. They feel a bit spongy….but inconsistent. You can tell they are doing more than just braking and that other electro-trickery is going on whilst you brake. It’s not bad….but to me it was a bit noticeable.
It’s just….serene. It’s relaxing…..but quick and response when required.
The above is all with Eco mode off.
When you put Eco mode on, this immediately dulls the throttle response (and performance as a whole I believe) by….i would say….approx 20-30%. It feels pretty rubbish (in comparison) to start with…..but if you leave it in Eco, you get used to it….and performance is still decent.
The reason I persisted with Eco is because you can put it in ‘B’ mode, which gives you stronger like…..off throttle braking. It’s not braking….it’s like….you know…I can’t remember what it’s called, but when you release the throttle, you slow down. I like this as you don’t need to use the brakes. And it seems to give more green dots on the display, so it’s putting a little bit back into the battery.
However! The ‘regen’ isn’t very strong. And it doesn’t really do this at all when not in B mode. This surprised me as when I’ve driven the Outlander PHEVS (i work with/for a Mitsubishi dealer), you can set the B to ‘5’ which is a nice strong regen, it really does kinda bring about ‘1 pedal driving’. (The new Leaf does this I think, they called it ‘E Pedal’ and you can set it to be like this)
Plus – if you drive in Eco most of the time….when you take it off….you get a real grin as you feel live you’ve engaged a turbo switch (hehe, turbo, how rudimentary……)
Erm, what else.
Practicality – the Leaf is nice and spacious inside. Front room is good, rear room is good and the boot is large and deep (but sadly doesn’t have a spare wheel, which probably is why it’s so deep). Plentiful space for our family.
It’s perhaps a bigger car than it looks though. I it felt like more of a squeeze on the drive than my C3 Picasso (in terms of both length and width (Matron).
The interior is smart and decent quality…and highly specced (sat nav, rear camera, cruise, climate etc blab la bla plenty of stuff) I DID notice a couple of squeaks and rattles when driving..but these were very slight…and felt I was only noticing them as there was no engine noise or vibration etc.
At speeds….like….60+mph…I wouldn’t say it was any quieter than any other car. By those speeds the wind and road noise become a thing and so it just seems like any other car. However….below this and especially in town etc, it’s super quiet.
So, it’s great to drive, comfy, spacious, very refined....it’s great!
BUT.
And yes, there sadly is a but….
The range. Range anxiety. It really is a thing.
When you drive away with a full charge….and before you have driven a mile….the battery display changes to 99%.....you know it’s a thing. And you just keep checking that graphic as the miles and percent go down and down.
You kinda wish they weren’t there….as it’s a constant reminder….but they need to be there….purely because the range isn’t great and you need to be kept aware of how you are doing.
On a very good day (or days) you will could approx. 90 miles from the battery (full). Normal is probably 70-80 miles...?.
With lots of use of the go pedal for fun driving, I can see below 50 miles being a realistic thing.
And again, in winter or on a cold wet day with use of heater, lights and everything else, people do indeed report the usable range as being 50 miles or less.
Now really – this shouldn’t be a thing. If you don’t do more than 70 miles a day, which I well undercut (mine is 30 max, usually less) But it’s that thing of not having much in reserve in case you need to do an extra journey etc.
It would absolutely be more than enough for me as a commuting car. But you would have to have that ‘other’ car for bigger journeys.
Yes, you can do long journeys in the leaf if you plan ahead and use rapid chargers etc but that’s a lot of extra organisation – AND….you have to know you’ll have a rapid charger available at the time…and there is no guarantee of that.
I've done some sums and at the minute, a £5-6k Leaf would break even. The cost of financing (and charging) the car would be less than i currently spend on fuel alone for the Picasso.
Come on now…these numbers are seriously starting to work!!!!!
(Lets make sure we ignore the elephant in room of the gradual degradation of the battery…..and the risk of potential failure of it would would surely wipe out a huge chunk of the savings….BUT – then an ICE car would have associated maintenance/repair costs too….lets keep things balanced)
So there you go. My thoughts and some approx. sums.
Surely it could happen…sometime?
Open to thoughts and recommendation from forum Leaf owners/tryers/thinkers?!!
Thank you!
Nice write up! I do think people new to EVs tend to hang on to the 'range anxiety' point a bit too much though.
First, yes its a small battery car which is relatively old when you consider the speed at which the tech has advanced, so it doesn't have that great a range in comparison to others. Second, when you are new to seeing a battery % display and the range dropping, you do fixate on it much more than when you've had the car a couple months and are used to how often you need to charge, how efficient or not you are at driving it on average.
I doubt many EV owners have any range anxiety once they're used to the car unless they often do longer journeys which require multiple charges to new places where they don't know the state of the charging infrastructure. Even then, personally its not a problem with the help of Plugshare and Zap-Map keeping us informed of the availability and location of chargers.
First, yes its a small battery car which is relatively old when you consider the speed at which the tech has advanced, so it doesn't have that great a range in comparison to others. Second, when you are new to seeing a battery % display and the range dropping, you do fixate on it much more than when you've had the car a couple months and are used to how often you need to charge, how efficient or not you are at driving it on average.
I doubt many EV owners have any range anxiety once they're used to the car unless they often do longer journeys which require multiple charges to new places where they don't know the state of the charging infrastructure. Even then, personally its not a problem with the help of Plugshare and Zap-Map keeping us informed of the availability and location of chargers.
I have never driven one, only sat in one at a dealership but I was quite surprised that I liked the interior and it felt a lot more grown up than the Zoe I had just got out of (at the same Renault/Nissan dealer).
For me the perfect car would be one that is as quiet as possible, as cheap to run as possible and as smooth as possible. From your description the Leaf perfectly fits this criteria, the only issue I have is that I have to make a 120 mile round trip once a week so the car would be no use for me.
If I had a daily commute of less than 50 miles I would get one of these in a heartbeat. I assume going back to an ICE car after driving one of these feels like going back in time?
For me the perfect car would be one that is as quiet as possible, as cheap to run as possible and as smooth as possible. From your description the Leaf perfectly fits this criteria, the only issue I have is that I have to make a 120 mile round trip once a week so the car would be no use for me.
If I had a daily commute of less than 50 miles I would get one of these in a heartbeat. I assume going back to an ICE car after driving one of these feels like going back in time?
Nice writeup.
Obviously depends where you live, but I don't think of it so much as range anxiety (ie. will I be able to make it to a charger?) but more as time anxiety - will I have to wait for a charger to free up? Will I have to reroute a bit to a different one if it's broken? It would take a very bad combination of circumstances to leave you stranded, but while long trips are possible in a fairly short range EV you do need to allow a bit more time. The more range you have, the more flexibility you have to stop when you want to stop, and to just push on if there's broken or busy chargers.
Obviously depends where you live, but I don't think of it so much as range anxiety (ie. will I be able to make it to a charger?) but more as time anxiety - will I have to wait for a charger to free up? Will I have to reroute a bit to a different one if it's broken? It would take a very bad combination of circumstances to leave you stranded, but while long trips are possible in a fairly short range EV you do need to allow a bit more time. The more range you have, the more flexibility you have to stop when you want to stop, and to just push on if there's broken or busy chargers.
I bought an old Leaf in April (2012 model) 24 kWh which had only done 12K miles, I've done 5K since.
My findings are exactly the same as yours.
My commute is a 33 miles round trip, so not a problem with range.
Really cheap to run too, on Octopus Go electricity tariff I'm only paying 1p per mile.
Put that into perspective, my diesel used to cost £75 to fill, the same money will take me 7500 miles!
Rapid charging seems fine, not had to wait once on the occasions I've done it.
If you live near a Nissan dealer you are allowed to rapid charge 3 times per week for free (at each dealer), and occasionally motorway Ecotricity ones are found in 'free vend' mode too.
My findings are exactly the same as yours.
My commute is a 33 miles round trip, so not a problem with range.
Really cheap to run too, on Octopus Go electricity tariff I'm only paying 1p per mile.
Put that into perspective, my diesel used to cost £75 to fill, the same money will take me 7500 miles!
Rapid charging seems fine, not had to wait once on the occasions I've done it.
If you live near a Nissan dealer you are allowed to rapid charge 3 times per week for free (at each dealer), and occasionally motorway Ecotricity ones are found in 'free vend' mode too.
Edited by superpp on Tuesday 10th September 15:48
Edited by superpp on Tuesday 10th September 15:49
Leaf is a great car as long as you can live with 50 miles range in winter - so 25 mile max distance trip if its a return journey.
You cannot argue with the running costs and get one cheap enough and your loss hardly any money in depreciation. Yes newer EVs have alot more range but newer EVs are all £30k+ for the same functionality as a car, so if you don't the extra range thats plenty of cash saved.
I was increasingly frustrated by the lack of range towards the end of my ownership, as even a mildly busy weekend of popping to see friends around the city required watching the guessometer with a careful eye. Even so what limited our use of the Leaf was the 14k miles PCP limit not the range.
You cannot argue with the running costs and get one cheap enough and your loss hardly any money in depreciation. Yes newer EVs have alot more range but newer EVs are all £30k+ for the same functionality as a car, so if you don't the extra range thats plenty of cash saved.
I was increasingly frustrated by the lack of range towards the end of my ownership, as even a mildly busy weekend of popping to see friends around the city required watching the guessometer with a careful eye. Even so what limited our use of the Leaf was the 14k miles PCP limit not the range.
2nd hand leaf owner here. Bought a '63 plate model 4 yrs ago with 20000 on the clock. Now got 90000 on the clock. No issues. Replaced tyres once and had a couple of "services" Not sure they did much but wash the car. No idea how much i've saved on fuel - but 70000 miles i a lot of petrol .......
24kw battery here.
I've just looked on AT - note the cars for about 6k are 1st gen cars. (Light dash, electronic handbrake) They were prone to a number of issues, especially in regards to the elec. handbrake, and also the heater system tends to either not work, or drain the battery.
All the recommendations are to go a bit higher in price (if you can) and get a gen 2 model - 2013 onwards - manaul handbrake (Left foot) and you should have no issues. mines a 24kw model still showing all bars, Battery health 96% (note - leaf spy and a dongle invaluable when looking at 2nd hand cars as you'll get an idea of battery health) and I can't fault it. Still get about 70 miles in the summer, and 60 winter (with roofbars and 2x bike carriers left on all the time as I can't be arsed to remove them)
Seems to me if you can cope with the lower range the gen ii is the one to have. Bought mine for under £6K, and despite approaching 100k now its just been valued at £9K!!
I do a 40 mile commute 5 days per week + other driving at evenings and weekends. We average 450 - 500 miles per week in it, and can fit 3 kids (in car seats - 7,4,1) in the back. Dog in the boot. What's not to like!
24kw battery here.
I've just looked on AT - note the cars for about 6k are 1st gen cars. (Light dash, electronic handbrake) They were prone to a number of issues, especially in regards to the elec. handbrake, and also the heater system tends to either not work, or drain the battery.
All the recommendations are to go a bit higher in price (if you can) and get a gen 2 model - 2013 onwards - manaul handbrake (Left foot) and you should have no issues. mines a 24kw model still showing all bars, Battery health 96% (note - leaf spy and a dongle invaluable when looking at 2nd hand cars as you'll get an idea of battery health) and I can't fault it. Still get about 70 miles in the summer, and 60 winter (with roofbars and 2x bike carriers left on all the time as I can't be arsed to remove them)
Seems to me if you can cope with the lower range the gen ii is the one to have. Bought mine for under £6K, and despite approaching 100k now its just been valued at £9K!!
I do a 40 mile commute 5 days per week + other driving at evenings and weekends. We average 450 - 500 miles per week in it, and can fit 3 kids (in car seats - 7,4,1) in the back. Dog in the boot. What's not to like!
Edited by scotlandtim on Tuesday 10th September 16:21
Range anxiety is the one thing you quickly loose as an EV owner. You get used to the car just been "full" every morning, you soon get to know how far (and fast) you can drive, and the best places to "top up" is you need too whilst out and about. We are all creatures of habit, even if we don't think we are, and so far i do probably 99.9% driving to and from the same places over the same roads, so you get to know the range showing vs where you are in your journey.
In fact, recently i had "range issues" with our diesel. I was late for work, ran out the house, jumped in, fired it up, started off to work, then looked at the dash. And the " <15 mile range" warning was flashing away merrily to itself, so i had to detour to a fuel station, i this case, about 8 miles out of my way!
In fact, recently i had "range issues" with our diesel. I was late for work, ran out the house, jumped in, fired it up, started off to work, then looked at the dash. And the " <15 mile range" warning was flashing away merrily to itself, so i had to detour to a fuel station, i this case, about 8 miles out of my way!
A500leroy said:
Its only the thought of a battery replacement thats stopping me, ive heard its mega money.
They don't just go pop one day, they slowly degrade.There's two ex-taxi 24kw Leafs for sale on one of the facebook groups, both done over 170k miles, both still have 10 of 12 battery bars left - so probably around 20-25% of range lost.
Saw a video of one of the worst degraded ones, which had lost about half it's capacity - they fare much worse in very hot climates. Still working fine, just has less range. A car that does 40 miles on a charge will still be useful to somebody.
Thank you everyone for your your responses and comments, recommendations 
The car 'belonged' to a friend who works for NMUK and had the car on lease. I didn't really want to give it back.
One thing i did wonder - would be if the whole electric car thing would...have a kind of....honeymoon effect....and once gone, would be boring?!
But it seems like you owners are still very happy.
Yeah, it does seem like the Gen2 is the one to get to, if i can. I am really strongly considering it now.
My electric at home is very cheap. We have a pre-paid 'key' meter thing and i refuse to get it changed as the electric bills have definitely worked out cheaper in this house than our last one.
PLUS - i could very likely charge it at work too. So thats a bonus. But my daily commute is probably....20 miles...sometimes less, sometimes more. We do do a 40 mile-ish round trip to the out-laws once a week but that should still be fine.
As someone mentioned/asked - i did indeed feel strange going back into my Picasso - it's a 2011 1.6 Diesel....and although it's actually fairly refined compared to similar diesels of that age/type....it did feel so......stone age?! The vibrations and noise from the engine, the clunky gearchange....it really did seem like going back in time in many ways. I felt like...WHY? Why would you have this....when the Leaf was so....smooth, quiet, quick?!!
I think i could make it work. It would defintely do for 90% of my usage, i reckon. And we have the other car for other stuff...
Hmmmm.....veery tempted. Just wish i'd been properly tempted say....12-18 months ago as Leafs seemed cheaper then! The prices are definitely holding up.
It'd have to be a battery owned one, the figures dont work out for me on a flex one.
The car 'belonged' to a friend who works for NMUK and had the car on lease. I didn't really want to give it back.
One thing i did wonder - would be if the whole electric car thing would...have a kind of....honeymoon effect....and once gone, would be boring?!
But it seems like you owners are still very happy.
Yeah, it does seem like the Gen2 is the one to get to, if i can. I am really strongly considering it now.
My electric at home is very cheap. We have a pre-paid 'key' meter thing and i refuse to get it changed as the electric bills have definitely worked out cheaper in this house than our last one.
PLUS - i could very likely charge it at work too. So thats a bonus. But my daily commute is probably....20 miles...sometimes less, sometimes more. We do do a 40 mile-ish round trip to the out-laws once a week but that should still be fine.
As someone mentioned/asked - i did indeed feel strange going back into my Picasso - it's a 2011 1.6 Diesel....and although it's actually fairly refined compared to similar diesels of that age/type....it did feel so......stone age?! The vibrations and noise from the engine, the clunky gearchange....it really did seem like going back in time in many ways. I felt like...WHY? Why would you have this....when the Leaf was so....smooth, quiet, quick?!!
I think i could make it work. It would defintely do for 90% of my usage, i reckon. And we have the other car for other stuff...
Hmmmm.....veery tempted. Just wish i'd been properly tempted say....12-18 months ago as Leafs seemed cheaper then! The prices are definitely holding up.
It'd have to be a battery owned one, the figures dont work out for me on a flex one.
Used leaf owner here too. It’s the perfect commuter frankly. It’s even preheated and defrosted in the winter.
It can’t be an only car IMHO, you need access to something with more range occasionally.
I’ve never pushed the eco button. You can drive it in B mode with brake regen and full performance. Just select drive twice.
Be aware it doesn’t illuminate the brake lights when in regen, which can surprise people behind you.
Ride is good. Handling is distinctly dull, but I expected no less.
30kw batteries appear to degrade much faster than the smaller 24Kw items.
It can’t be an only car IMHO, you need access to something with more range occasionally.
I’ve never pushed the eco button. You can drive it in B mode with brake regen and full performance. Just select drive twice.
Be aware it doesn’t illuminate the brake lights when in regen, which can surprise people behind you.
Ride is good. Handling is distinctly dull, but I expected no less.
30kw batteries appear to degrade much faster than the smaller 24Kw items.
Ah, that's interesting about the B mode in normal, thank you.
As I liked the responsiveness of the whole thing in normal...but liked the B mode in ECO...so to hear that you can have B mode in normal is great.
Understood about the rear lights not coming on, thank you.
As I say, if anything I prefer a stronger B mode as per the PHEV.
As I liked the responsiveness of the whole thing in normal...but liked the B mode in ECO...so to hear that you can have B mode in normal is great.
Understood about the rear lights not coming on, thank you.
As I say, if anything I prefer a stronger B mode as per the PHEV.
I have had a 24 and now have a 30. You have to be very careful with the brakes when hitting any bumps in the road, the abs kicks in and the regen goes off and you have to press the brake twice as hard.
I have just done a journey of 220 miles, 4 rapids. I ran out of juice around Heathrow and all the chargers had a queue of taxi drivers, one was broken and then I ended up at a Shell one and it wouldn't work with my card, but the app did the trick thanks to a taxi driver.
They are big, you can remove the rear seats and its huge in there. One taxi drive I spoke to today had done 125k on a 17 plate 30, said the range was 80-90 miles. Another taxi driver said he was saving £800 a month.
Basically I save what I used to spend on derv so I get a free car.
I have just done a journey of 220 miles, 4 rapids. I ran out of juice around Heathrow and all the chargers had a queue of taxi drivers, one was broken and then I ended up at a Shell one and it wouldn't work with my card, but the app did the trick thanks to a taxi driver.
They are big, you can remove the rear seats and its huge in there. One taxi drive I spoke to today had done 125k on a 17 plate 30, said the range was 80-90 miles. Another taxi driver said he was saving £800 a month.
Basically I save what I used to spend on derv so I get a free car.
lost in espace said:
I have just done a journey of 220 miles, 4 rapids. I ran out of juice around Heathrow and all the chargers had a queue of taxi drivers
Woo that's brave in a 24 kWh Leaf!Best I managed was 150 miles but my wife was pregnant at the time so stakes higher if it went wrong :P
Why was there a queue? Was it a rapid on free vend or were Taxi drivers just killing time?
I thought they were PHEVs, so am surprised Taxi drivers queuing when they could be off driving and earning.
Is transferring to an EV a little like moving from the old school button handset to touchscreen? We all had a Nokia 3310 which you’d charge on a Monday and leave until next week. Now that we’ve all got smartphones most people I know are charging daily unless they’re super light users and plan accordingly, either with battery packs or top up charges in the office etc.
I feel like that’s the sort of mindset shift an EV might need.
I feel like that’s the sort of mindset shift an EV might need.
A500leroy said:
Its only the thought of a battery replacement thats stopping me, ive heard its mega money.
Does the thought of your ICE going pop at 150,000 miles stop you buying one?Because your ICE wears out every time you use it too, it's just that people conveniently forget that fact......
Max_Torque said:
Because your ICE wears out every time you use it too, it's just that people conveniently forget that fact......
What kind of cars have you been driving that wear out every time you use them?That slip aside, assuming you mean there's some wear each time you use a car, people are just nervous about the unknown with EV's. I wouldn't buy an EV without a warranty given the eye watering costs of the stuff that does go wrong.
The Leaf and Zoe forums have plenty of evidence that these failures can and do happen and suddenly your bargain fuel free £6k Leaf could land you with a major bill. The chances of it happening are slim (especially compared to a high mileage or older ICE car) but it's still a concern that's worth considering and not just batting away as nonsense.
With luck and and regular (costly) maintenance an ICE vehicle will last a long time.
Looking after the battery in an EV will result in long life (OK there is a small element of luck with regards to things like the electric handbrake on early Leafs).
I have three early Leafs and an e-NV200, all 24kW.
The annoying feature of the Leafs is lack of battery percent display - in the eNV it's always displayed - 1% being 1km on the open road. Lack of range? drive slower. (The range can be 50% higher at slow speeds)
Previous (Japanese) owners haven't done well with batteries, one Leaf with 10 bars, one with 8, one with seven (eNV has 12). This restricts the range.
If you can live within the range and charging time, an EV is literally a no brainer.
Replacing a Leaf battery will give you a new car, an NZ company is supposed to be doing a 38kW version.
The other advantage with NZ is effectively no rust.
Therefore there is no reason why an EV in NZ (with a very occasional battery fix), won't last for a lifetime.
I have no reason to ever buy another ICE vehicle, hateful things.
(For the rare long journey I have a 20 year old Honda Logo)
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