Limping home - how brave are you?

[ZesPak]

So, I have a S 70D loaner for a while now.

It does 330km in the summer.
Past Monday I had to do about 310km, mainly highway.
I was already late for dinner so I didn't feel like supercharging.

Anyway, I got home with this on my display (4km):



I've actually emptied my bikes and a couple of cars, always cut it very close and don't really think about the consequences so (range) anxiety isn't really a thing I experience. I picked up the wife 8km from home, and the range said 10km then. She was less than psyched .
I did notice a significant drop in performance when flooring it! It was on some sort of battery saving mode, felt more like a 150bhp car rather than a 300+ one .

How close have you guys cut it? Anyone been out by surprise?

[anonymous-user]

The Leaf stops showing range below about 4% or something... Anyway I had it down to the "--" display a couple of times, although never into turtle (reduced power) mode. Never ran out.

[SWoll]

I've not gone below 10% in the i3 (so 12-17 miles or so). Trouble enough in an ICE car if you run out of juice but the pain and cost of recovering an ICE car doesn't bear consideration.

[gangzoom]

ZesPak said:

How close have you guys cut it? Anyone been out by surprise?

People on FaceBook group like to get to the SC with 0 miles.....

Just don't forget the BMS is at best 'guessing' the remaining charge in the cells, I've seen the battery % jump up/down 1-2% within 30 seconds some times. Not a problem normally but if your planning to arrive at 0%, that might be enough to leave you stuck on the side of the road.

Bare in mind unlike a petrol car where even if you run out its usually a simple case of finding a petrol station and buying a jerry can - 30 minutes inconvenience if that, with any EV its sitting by the side of the road waiting for recovery, than been transported to the nearest charger and than waiting to charge. So that's the rest of the day/night gone for the sake of getting a picture with 0km/miles on the dash.

50K of EV driving lowest SOC I've seen in any EV is '--' on my old Leaf, never got to turtle stage, still yet to see power limit in any Tesla due to low SOC, no intention/interest of seeing it either .

[FurtiveFreddy]

Someone on FB yesterday was stranded 500 yards from a Supercharger when his Model S suddenly shut down when it hit 0%.
He thought there was always some 'reserve' left, but there wasn't in his.
Chademos on the route were all out of service apparently.
Getting low in a BEV is probably a lot more stressful than an ICE.

[anonymous-user]

I ran my Zoe flat once, just to see what happened.

In normal use, I have got home with 4 and 5 miles remaining a couple of times. Only one of which wasn't planned for and required some truck slipstreaming and real gentle pedal use until I was sure I was going to make it

[romeogolf]

JPJPJP said:

I ran my Zoe flat once, just to see what happened.

In normal use, I have got home with 4 and 5 miles remaining a couple of times. Only one of which wasn't planned for and required some truck slipstreaming and real gentle pedal use until I was sure I was going to make it

What happened...?

We've also run our Zoe down to about 4 or 5 miles.

[anonymous-user]

It just stopped. I was only going a couple of miles an hour.

The lights and radio still worked (from the 12V I suppose), but there was no power available for driving

Then I rang Renault and a flat bed truck came and took me home. From the call to the truck arriving was about 30 minutes and I was about 10 minutes from home

A bit of an abuse of Renault's guarantee to rescue you for free service that came with the car, but it scratched an itch I had...

[SpikeBmth]

romeogolf said:

JPJPJP said:

I ran my Zoe flat once, just to see what happened.

In normal use, I have got home with 4 and 5 miles remaining a couple of times. Only one of which wasn't planned for and required some truck slipstreaming and real gentle pedal use until I was sure I was going to make it

What happened...?

We've also run our Zoe down to about 4 or 5 miles.

Do Zoes just stop when it gets to 0, or was there a little extra?

We've not been below 30% yet

[anonymous-user]

From the display showing zero to actually stopping was, maybe, 800m. Certainly no more than that

[SpikeBmth]

JPJPJP said:

From the display showing zero to actually stopping was, maybe, 800m. Certainly no more than that

Thanks, not a lot extra lol

Heres our Zoe in a Tesla sandwich.... Certainly can see why we say its a simple park

[bimjim]

In the I-Pace last Monday evening I hit zero miles of range with 2.5 miles still to go, but made it back OK.

Reading the comments above, I'm glad I didn't try that in the Zoe!

[Heres Johnny]

There are no guarantees even if your car has done it before - the Tesla owners group fanboys came out recently and said you shouldnt drive below 10% - I bet they don’t tell prospective owners that the battery is only usable between 90% and 10% when they’re stuffing referral codes onto everyone they can.

[gangzoom]

Heres Johnny said:

There are no guarantees even if your car has done it before - the Tesla owners group fanboys came out recently and said you shouldnt drive below 10% - I bet they don’t tell prospective owners that the battery is only usable between 90% and 10% when they’re stuffing referral codes onto everyone they can.

You really have some kind of issue with Tesla referrals dont you? No EVs should be charged above 90% or taken to below 10% on a regular basis, its nothing to do with Tesla.

On the point of referrals has your Powerwall arrived yet? We've just had the engineer visit and should be good to go for the install as soon as WesternPower gives the go ahead .

[Heres Johnny]

gangzoom said:

Heres Johnny said:

There are no guarantees even if your car has done it before - the Tesla owners group fanboys came out recently and said you shouldnt drive below 10% - I bet they don’t tell prospective owners that the battery is only usable between 90% and 10% when they’re stuffing referral codes onto everyone they can.

You really have some kind of issue with Tesla referrals dont you? No EVs should be charged above 90% or taken to below 10% on a regular basis, its nothing to do with Tesla.

On the point of referrals has your Powerwall arrived yet? We've just had the engineer visit and should be good to go for the install as soon as WesternPower gives the go ahead .

Do BMW say don’t charge above 90%?

Do Nissan say do t charge above 90%?

Do Hyundai say don’t charge above 90%?

I have an issue with bullsut

Edited by Heres Johnny on Thursday 1st August 23:06

[Dave Hedgehog]

Heres Johnny said:

Do BMW say don’t charge above 90%?

Do Nissan say do t charge above 90%?

Do Hyundai say don’t charge above 90%?

i doubt any manufacturer says don’t but it’s about how cell damage occurs, the clever electronics try’s to ensure all the cells in a bank never reach actual zero (permanent death for cell) or go over 100% (boom time), it try’s to make sure all the cells are as close to each other charge % wise. However if one cell is not performing as well as the others it’s possible that it will be a few % +/- different to the rest of the bank. The logic is that if you never go below 10% or above 90% you will never push that cell to failure. If a cell is more than 10% out the banks pretty much fubar at that point.

[gangzoom]

Heres Johnny said:

Do BMW say don’t charge above 90%?

Do Nissan say do t charge above 90%?

Do Hyundai say don’t charge above 90%?

I have an issue with bullsut

Yes we all know established manufactures always have the best interest of consumers at heart and will never ever lie to consumers about their products .

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

i doubt any manufacturer says don’t but it’s about how cell damage occurs

The cynical side in me says manufacture WANT owners to charge 0-100% everyday, who knows may be even the built in buffers are designed to keep the pack alive just long enough till the warranty ends.

After all if the packs dies after the warranty period the consumer will have to come back to buy another car, if the pack doesn't die than its a potential lost sale.......Am I been too cynical?

But wanting to test car exhaust fumes on a monkey when we know its toxic isn't something a normal non psychotic human being would ever even think of doing, so no, wanting EV battery packs to fail just after the warranty period is probably just standard practice for car manufacturers.

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 2nd August 05:30

[Heres Johnny]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Heres Johnny said:

Do BMW say don’t charge above 90%?

Do Nissan say do t charge above 90%?

Do Hyundai say don’t charge above 90%?

i doubt any manufacturer says don’t but it’s about how cell damage occurs, the clever electronics try’s to ensure all the cells in a bank never reach actual zero (permanent death for cell) or go over 100% (boom time), it try’s to make sure all the cells are as close to each other charge % wise. However if one cell is not performing as well as the others it’s possible that it will be a few % +/- different to the rest of the bank. The logic is that if you never go below 10% or above 90% you will never push that cell to failure. If a cell is more than 10% out the banks pretty much fubar at that point.

Tesla tell you not to charge to 100% on a regular basis.

Whereas BMW have a buffer they release as the inevitable small amount of degradation occurs to maintain range.

So one make has no issue with 100% charging and they seek to maintain the range over the life of the car, and one pushes the envelope as hard as they can then complains at the drive for using it and then through software updates takes away chunks of range and charging speed in an attempt to limit their warranty exposure.

[ZesPak]

Heres Johnny said:

So one make has no issue with 100% charging and they seek to maintain the range over the life of the car, and one pushes the envelope as hard as they can then complains at the drive for using it and then through software updates takes away chunks of range and charging speed in an attempt to limit their warranty exposure.

Audi has a 95Kwh battery and allow 400km of range on paper. They have this buffer built in and software releases it when needed.

Tesla has a 100Kwh battery and allow 600km of range on paper. They say: on your day-to-day, don't use more than 90% as it's better for the battery.
The result is the same, however when you want to go on a trip, the car does really have the 100kwh available for you.
In the end they give an 8 year warranty on the battery, regardless of your charging habits.

Check out Tesloop, they've done hundreds of thousands of miles on some cars and have written some experience on their blog.
One excerpt:
https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-te...

tesloop said:

Battery degradation over the course of the first 194,000 miles was ~6% with multiple supercharges a day to 95-100%, instead of the recommended 90-95%.

over 300k km with 6% battery degradation when doing "all the wrong stuff" (supercharging+100% charging), I'll take it.