BBC midday news re electric cars in Madiera
Discussion
Wierd story that asks so many questions.
The island has a problem re making their electricity. They currently have a dirty diesel gen and solar, they wish to cut back on the diesel and use solar as much as they can, so they've installed reverse engineering into electric cars to put electricity back into the grid at night, when the cars are laid up doing squat and earning income. Apparently the cars batteries are made with a limiter so that not all the juice is sucked out during daytime use but kept back for nighttime.
Lots and lots of questions here.
The island has a problem re making their electricity. They currently have a dirty diesel gen and solar, they wish to cut back on the diesel and use solar as much as they can, so they've installed reverse engineering into electric cars to put electricity back into the grid at night, when the cars are laid up doing squat and earning income. Apparently the cars batteries are made with a limiter so that not all the juice is sucked out during daytime use but kept back for nighttime.
Lots and lots of questions here.
mikal83 said:
Wierd story that asks so many questions.
The island has a problem re making their electricity. They currently have a dirty diesel gen and solar, they wish to cut back on the diesel and use solar as much as they can, so they've installed reverse engineering into electric cars to put electricity back into the grid at night, when the cars are laid up doing squat and earning income. Apparently the cars batteries are made with a limiter so that not all the juice is sucked out during daytime use but kept back for nighttime.
Lots and lots of questions here.
I haven't seen the story and can't find it on their site, but what questions? From what you've said it sounds pretty sensible to me. The island has a problem re making their electricity. They currently have a dirty diesel gen and solar, they wish to cut back on the diesel and use solar as much as they can, so they've installed reverse engineering into electric cars to put electricity back into the grid at night, when the cars are laid up doing squat and earning income. Apparently the cars batteries are made with a limiter so that not all the juice is sucked out during daytime use but kept back for nighttime.
Lots and lots of questions here.
mikal83 said:
Wierd story that asks so many questions.
The island has a problem re making their electricity. They currently have a dirty diesel gen and solar, they wish to cut back on the diesel and use solar as much as they can, so they've installed reverse engineering into electric cars to put electricity back into the grid at night, when the cars are laid up doing squat and earning income. Apparently the cars batteries are made with a limiter so that not all the juice is sucked out during daytime use but kept back for nighttime.
Lots and lots of questions here.
V2GThe island has a problem re making their electricity. They currently have a dirty diesel gen and solar, they wish to cut back on the diesel and use solar as much as they can, so they've installed reverse engineering into electric cars to put electricity back into the grid at night, when the cars are laid up doing squat and earning income. Apparently the cars batteries are made with a limiter so that not all the juice is sucked out during daytime use but kept back for nighttime.
Lots and lots of questions here.
Or vehicle to grid
Been mooted for a long time. Plenty of work going into the viability of it. Universities here working hard with the likes of Nissan (who are one of the first to look into using their Leaf EVs as a means of storing and supplying grid energy) on V2G... the actual infrastructure to do it and all the way down to looking at how the batteries cope (i.e. we they see early degredation?).
My old boss, I think, was one of the first, if not still the only private individual, to have V2G fitted to his house and the company Leaf parked outside to take charge from the grid and from his solar array during the day and then supply later on.
It didn't seem to work all that seamlessly, but then again, he had very early hardware. I think once, he was left with no charge to go anywhere. But, teething troubles really.
I think its a good idea really, so long as battery condition is not unduly affected (or you are at least compensated to cover it). Our cars sit idle for most of the time... I do 15k miles a year and probably drive on average, 2 hours a day. 2 hours out of 24. If it can be parked and doing something useful, even earning me money for the other 22... great.
IMO the real problem is calendar management. One of the selling points for EVs is that they are charged up in the morning. With this approach, they might not be - you get to your car and rather than the 200 miles you assumed you had.... you have 10. Great if you aren’t going anywhere that day, pretty annoying if you had planned a trip.
Spain is a bloody obvious country for Solar, but they’ve had some weird taxes on it - as in you install solar, and you pay a fee, rather than in the UK where you are handed a subsidy. I’ve hardly ever seen solar PV on Spain - loads of solar DHW because its so bloody hot there....
(Yeah, I know Madeira is Portugal, but the point applies.... :-). )
Spain is a bloody obvious country for Solar, but they’ve had some weird taxes on it - as in you install solar, and you pay a fee, rather than in the UK where you are handed a subsidy. I’ve hardly ever seen solar PV on Spain - loads of solar DHW because its so bloody hot there....
(Yeah, I know Madeira is Portugal, but the point applies.... :-). )
Good idea.
Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
rxe said:
IMO the real problem is calendar management. One of the selling points for EVs is that they are charged up in the morning. With this approach, they might not be - you get to your car and rather than the 200 miles you assumed you had.... you have 10. Great if you aren’t going anywhere that day, pretty annoying if you had planned a trip.
Spain is a bloody obvious country for Solar, but they’ve had some weird taxes on it - as in you install solar, and you pay a fee, rather than in the UK where you are handed a subsidy. I’ve hardly ever seen solar PV on Spain - loads of solar DHW because its so bloody hot there....
Easily managed in the software though. Just set your requirements and have the system work around them.Spain is a bloody obvious country for Solar, but they’ve had some weird taxes on it - as in you install solar, and you pay a fee, rather than in the UK where you are handed a subsidy. I’ve hardly ever seen solar PV on Spain - loads of solar DHW because its so bloody hot there....
SpeckledJim said:
Good idea.
Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
If / as people switch away from ICE to electric the Govt will have to tax something electricity related so I don't see how you will be able to "make money"?Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
TX.
SpeckledJim said:
Good idea.
Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
+1Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
Although as someone who likes to have my phone charged as much as possible at all times, the anxiety about only having 60% when I could've had 100% would be hard to get past.
(I didn't say it was logical)
Durzel said:
SpeckledJim said:
Good idea.
Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
+1Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
Although as someone who likes to have my phone charged as much as possible at all times, the anxiety about only having 60% when I could've had 100% would be hard to get past.
(I didn't say it was logical)
So you can get home from work and use whatever remains in your car to power your house for the evening, and send what's left back to the grid at, say, 12p per kWh.
Then, from midnight to 6am, buy it back at 5p per kWh. And start the day with a fully charged car.
Having an electric car and/or a domestic battery working in this way means you can be buying in the middle of the night when it's cheap, and selling during the evening when it's expensive. And if you've got panels as well, then you can be using that to top up your car/battery and/or sell it to the grid at daytime prices.
SpeckledJim said:
Good idea.
Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
Exactly - not to mention that most people won't use even close to a full charge every day that leaves a huge capacity available for interim storage... All those times when the price goes negative can be snapped up for later.Simply say to the system "make sure I've got at least 60% charge by 8am. Other than that, make me some money"
Combined with panels on the roof, and ideally a battery in the house, you could potentially receive a cheque from nPower every month instead of sending one.
There are times where the price of electricity in the grid actually goes negative and you can be paid for consuming/absorbing it.
The world needs to get its head around this. So much wasted energy and opportunity in the current methods.
My thought was, the lack of use of the car at night and draining the battery. They said that a certain amount would be kept back by the car for reverse power BUT that would limit range/usage of the car wouldn't it? And then theres the extra cost of electric cars. Its seems to me that they are very keen to get rid of the diesel plant at any cost.
I think people need to understand just how many KWh's something tiny like a Nissan Leaf need to fully charge.
You need to either pull a lot of current out of the wall, or have a massive solar panel array to get the thing anywhere near fully charged.
This story is BS and won't work in practice. It was probably dreamt up by the Green Party or something?
You need to either pull a lot of current out of the wall, or have a massive solar panel array to get the thing anywhere near fully charged.
This story is BS and won't work in practice. It was probably dreamt up by the Green Party or something?
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I think people need to understand just how many KWh's something tiny like a Nissan Leaf need to fully charge.
You need to either pull a lot of current out of the wall, or have a massive solar panel array to get the thing anywhere near fully charged.
This story is BS and won't work in practice. It was probably dreamt up by the Green Party or something?
In Madeira with the sun they get, a normal house roof of panels could charge a Leaf in 5-6 hours. You need to either pull a lot of current out of the wall, or have a massive solar panel array to get the thing anywhere near fully charged.
This story is BS and won't work in practice. It was probably dreamt up by the Green Party or something?
I've got 14 panels on my roof, admittedly pointing in a pretty-much optimal direction, and on a sunny day it generates 4 or 5 kilowatts I think.
rxe said:
IMO the real problem is calendar management. One of the selling points for EVs is that they are charged up in the morning. With this approach, they might not be - you get to your car and rather than the 200 miles you assumed you had.... you have 10. Great if you aren’t going anywhere that day, pretty annoying if you had planned a trip.
Which is probably why they are looking at it for Maderia, as the island is only 30 miles long by 10 miles wide, so no one will be leaving their house in the morning expecting to do a 200 mile journey 
SpeckledJim said:
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
I think people need to understand just how many KWh's something tiny like a Nissan Leaf need to fully charge.
You need to either pull a lot of current out of the wall, or have a massive solar panel array to get the thing anywhere near fully charged.
This story is BS and won't work in practice. It was probably dreamt up by the Green Party or something?
In Madeira with the sun they get, a normal house roof of panels could charge a Leaf in 5-6 hours. You need to either pull a lot of current out of the wall, or have a massive solar panel array to get the thing anywhere near fully charged.
This story is BS and won't work in practice. It was probably dreamt up by the Green Party or something?
I have no idea how many units it takes to charge a Leaf. Probably a shedload more?
13kWh translates into a 2kW electric kettle (just under 3hp) running for 6.5hrs. Assume 30hp = 0.65 hrs for the car.
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