Thoughts on Lexus GS450H

[blueacid]

Hi everyone,
So I'm currently driving an older Volvo diesel. It's still running well, and I can understand that whole cliché of "just run in at 150k"; it's at 151k on the clock and is still running well. I'm doing around 15k a year currently.

Unfortunately I live in a city, so I'm often in traffic. Alternatively I'm on the motorway doing a long run, so cruise control set and wafting. It's rare that I'm on a winding A-road and having the opportunity for fun.

I'd love a tesla, or another electric car with that kind of range, but sadly they're still a bit out of my price range. However, I know a Euro 3 diesel in the city is horrifying, so I'm looking for a change. I got looking at the GS450h, and wondered if anyone has any better suggestions, or reasons to run away hiding from it.

I'm already aware to look for a facelift (since the battery got repackaged to give you slightly more space in the boot --although it's still small!), and to get a battery healthcheck done.

Thanks for any suggestions!

[Martyn76]

Try here: https://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/forum/95-l...

I'm eyeing up either the 300h\450h to replace my diesel this year.

[gangzoom]

Get the 450H. I've driven a RX 450H and we have a IS300H. The engine in the 450H setup is simply much more effortless and less harsh than the 300H, especially in a bigger car than the IS.

Not much if anything goes wrong with these cars.

GS doesn't have folding rear seats, one of the reasons we went for the IS.

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 1st February 16:35

[Garemberg]

I just picked up a RX450h as a family car with a 3 year warranty from Lexus - it's exceeded my expectations.

[DonkeyApple]

I keep getting tempted towards one of these to use as the general purpose local potterer but am heldback by the fact that it’s not a plug-in. It ticks so many other boxes though.

[gangzoom]

Not been a plugin hybrid is one of the best things about the Toyota hybrids. Plugin hybrids are too comprised, they aren't good EVs or combustion cars.

The Toyota hybrids are essentially petrol cars that use hybrid tech to enable real life efficiency that can match/beat diesels without needing to worry about turbos/DPFs etc.

I cannot say our IS300H as a driving experience , but I cannot fault the reliability/efficiency and overall ownership experience. The V6 in the 450H units is much less strained than the 4 cylinder unit in the 300H cars.

[DSLiverpool]

Loved my GS450 and I’ve had a GS430 as well - the 450 was lovely and it was fun to eek out the battery travel.
Very fast 50/70 on the motorway as well.

[blueacid]

DonkeyApple said:

I keep getting tempted towards one of these to use as the general purpose local potterer but am heldback by the fact that it’s not a plug-in. It ticks so many other boxes though.

Sadly my budget is around 6-8k; at that price the only plug-ins I could find might be a ropey Prius Plug-in or an equally ropey Ampera. But I agree, it'd be lovely to shift all the short local journeys completely away from using petrol.

[DSLiverpool]

A Zoe is £6k would that do?

[DonkeyApple]

blueacid said:

DonkeyApple said:

I keep getting tempted towards one of these to use as the general purpose local potterer but am heldback by the fact that it’s not a plug-in. It ticks so many other boxes though.

Sadly my budget is around 6-8k; at that price the only plug-ins I could find might be a ropey Prius Plug-in or an equally ropey Ampera. But I agree, it'd be lovely to shift all the short local journeys completely away from using petrol.

Yup. I’m keen to have a family sized runabout that can be charged up at home and then used for all the daily local pottering by the wife on EV but switch to a decent sized petrol for when I ferry the family on the longer weekend routes. What that would achieve for me is not needing two practical cars so permitting a larger number of impractical, fun cars.

[Merry]

DonkeyApple said:

Yup. I’m keen to have a family sized runabout that can be charged up at home and then used for all the daily local pottering by the wife on EV but switch to a decent sized petrol for when I ferry the family on the longer weekend routes. What that would achieve for me is not needing two practical cars so permitting a larger number of impractical, fun cars.

We had the same issue, ended up with an Outlander. Cost 14k though...

Would have loved an Ampera instead but they only have 4 seats, and dealer support is not great.

[craigjm]

The problem with something like the GS450 is that once you are out on the Motorway you are just driving a big petrol engine car. If you do plenty of round town driving they become probably about as economical as a diesel. The biggest issue though is the gearbox, CVT gearboxes are just awful.

[DonkeyApple]

Merry said:

We had the same issue, ended up with an Outlander. Cost 14k though...

Would have loved an Ampera instead but they only have 4 seats, and dealer support is not great.

Yup. As per usual, I am probably completely out of step with society but for me, I’d like one modern car which can be used as pure EV for the day to day chores but when I am driving I want a nice big petrol engine and for it all wrapped in a generally higher end package. The current crop of hybrids that potentially fit that bill are all silly tax wheezes so have the bare minimum EV range.

Something like a Cayenne or Rangie with a solid 50 mile electric range would do me. Wheezy little electric motors for 30mph work and then 4-5 litres of V8 petrol goodness for when I have to drive the thing.

I suspect it will never happen and I’ll keep running two modern cars instead.

[blueacid]

DSLiverpool said:

A Zoe is £6k would that do?

Locally, yes. I've got a fair few mates & family 4 hours drive away though, and currently none of the electric cars that I can afford are at the point where a 200 mile journey is do-able without plenty of faff. Couple of years from now, maybe the situation will have changed appreciably, but in the meantime why not run something that's a bit quick... at least, that's the thought in my head.

Ditch the man maths and the sensible answer is of course to keep the Volvo until it's taxed out of the city or until it fails to proceed in a spectacular fashion. It doesn't seem to be showing any sign of doing the latter any time soon... but I'm a bit bored of it!

craigjm said:

The problem with something like the GS450 is that once you are out on the Motorway you are just driving a big petrol engine car. If you do plenty of round town driving they become probably about as economical as a diesel. The biggest issue though is the gearbox, CVT gearboxes are just awful.

Yeah I've heard so many split views about the CVT. For everyone bemoaning their awfulness there's an equally sized crowd who adore them, from what it seems. Mostly I'm either commuting in traffic, or cruising on the motorway; it's rare that I'm on a winding B-road, so I figure that it's probably tolerable given that kind of driving.. surely it's better than the somewhat dimwitted geartronic in the diesel Volvo, and I've coped with that for the past 5 or so years :P


I guess the other question is: can anyone think of anything else that can be had for <£8k which will do the commute/motorway slog, which isn't diesel and which is of a similarly barge-y charactaristic to a S60?

[blueacid]

DonkeyApple said:

Yup. As per usual, I am probably completely out of step with society but for me, I’d like one modern car which can be used as pure EV for the day to day chores but when I am driving I want a nice big petrol engine and for it all wrapped in a generally higher end package. The current crop of hybrids that potentially fit that bill are all silly tax wheezes so have the bare minimum EV range.

Something like a Cayenne or Rangie with a solid 50 mile electric range would do me. Wheezy little electric motors for 30mph work and then 4-5 litres of V8 petrol goodness for when I have to drive the thing.

I suspect it will never happen and I’ll keep running two modern cars instead.

Yep, agreed. I'm in exactly the same boat as you; I'd imagine that the WLTP-compliant plug in hybrids will answer that cry for a bit more battery range; perhaps the sucessor to the BMW 330e (and any vehicles that are similar to it) will be the answer. Because I'd assume that even if you're on the motorway run, the battery and motor is still doing regen braking etc, so you'll recoup a bit of efficiency... hopefully the batteries and motors work out as a net positive for fuel economy compared to their not being fitted at all!

[Chris-S]

Looked at a GS450 a while back. Would have done us pretty well, but it was just a tad too big, and although it worked perfectly fine, the CVT thing was somewhat off-putting after so many years of more conventional transmissions. Sure I'd have got over it though.

Ended up with a C350e, and frankly, wish I hadn't - an expensive mistake brought on by too much enthusiasm for a new car and not enough due diligence. Car itself is generally OK-ish, ride, performance, spec, toys, comfort etc all good, but the ICE sounds like a bag of spanners in a tumble dryer, particularly on a cold morning when it insists on firing up regardless of battery charge state. At least it's barely audible inside the car, which is something. I don't quite understand how they managed to make it sound so ste though. Again, lack of due diligence, I never actually tried one before buying - drove a C300h, the diesel non-plug in hybrid and extrapolated. Muppet. Only shred of defence is that I had requested a test drive but the dealers utterly failed - yeah, not a great defence is it....

Battery-only range is poor - best case in 'normal' gentle driving has been about 14 miles. Could get it slightly better by messing with the thing I suppose. Winter range is laughable - often can't get 6 miles without the ICE having to fire up. Worst part though is MB and their dealers. Should have bought a Lexus.

Having compounded the initial bad decision by buying it outright with cash, topped off by being a salesman's perfect customer, I now have to live with it. At least it's cheap to run, although given the level of depreciation, it needs to be.

If they ever get round to putting the updated battery and drivetrain into a C class, a used one might make a decent proposition....if you fancy trusting MB and their dealers. Personally, I wouldn't.

[gangzoom]

DonkeyApple said:

Something like a Cayenne or Rangie with a solid 50 mile electric range would do me. Wheezy little electric motors for 30mph work and then 4-5 litres of V8 petrol goodness for when I have to drive the thing.

Plug in hybrids struggle to better 2 miles per kWh at best if times (I think the current RR PHEV struggles to manage even 1.5 miles per kWh).

So your need a 30kWh+ battery to get anything close to 50 miles in real world use- thats 300kg+ in battery weight ontop of all the combustion engine weight, if you want a V8 thats going to be 3ton+ machine.

Even if they made such a monstrosity I suspect your need a 6 figure budget, in which case why not just get a Model X/eTron/iPace etc or alternatively get a Cayenne Turbo/SVR RR. Lets face it if your seriously in the market for a V8 petrol SUV why even worry about mpg.

Or you just get an RX450H, mpg isn't great, but no petrol V6 SUV is. I saw around 25mpg which is similar to what I managed in a 4 cylinder diesel XC60, and I know which I rather would own if forced to pick between the two.

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 3rd February 22:43

[DonkeyApple]

This is the issue, I’m out of step with the general market and so I don’t expect to find a product to fit. The efficiency of the electric element doesn’t concern me as we can produce more than we need for local driving. The advantage would be to combine the need for a local pottering wagon with the need for a large family car for longer journeys rather than running two modern cars. An SVR or Cayenne fits my usage of the family car and something like an i3 would be perfect for the local stuff but in an ideal world being able to merge that into one car would be handy.

The iPace comes really close but it’s range isn’t enough. I’m not going to faff about with needing to charge away from home. The X I just found to not be nice enough inside for the price.

At the moment, the Lexus is the closest to ticking all the boxes, it’s just a shame it isn’t a plug in.

[gangzoom]

^If you want a plugin why not just get the current Cayenne Plugin or a RR Plugin. Your clearly interested in EVs, so why not give them a go??

My wifes Lexus hybrid is one of the reasons I first got interested in EVs.

[DonkeyApple]

gangzoom said:

^If you want a plugin why not just get the current Cayenne Plugin or a RR Plugin. Your clearly interested in EVs, so why not give them a go??

My wifes Lexus hybrid is one of the reasons I first got interested in EVs.

The range on the Cayenne is terrible. It’s not really a hybrid but rather an urban tax avoidance scheme. I borrowed one for a few days over the summer and it couldn’t achieve the morning usage on EV and I can only imagine that’s not any better in the winter. I haven’t bothered with the RRS as the purpose would be to go down to one car and modern Rangies work best when there is a second car to use when it’s having a hissy fit.

I have a very keen interest in EVs but they simply aren’t cost effective as of yet as utility boxes and there isn’t yet a single product that meets my personal wishes. I suspect that will change over the next couple of years but at the moment choice is just too small.