Toyota Mirai? Fuel Cell Vehicle
Discussion
telecat said:
The Idea is good but please can you stop trying to make the car look like it's from "UFO". It's ugly as sin and we need it to be a "normal" vehicle to take off.
It's never going to take off as hydrogen is a terrible way to store energy and crazy expensive to make. Enjoy £12 a gallon.ProTantoQuid said:
I’ve seen the Met Police in London using them, both unmarked and marked. As well as Green Tomatoes taxis. I wonder how easy it is to fuel in terms of availability.
Theres 6 h2 fueling stations within the m25. I expect the met were given those vehicles as part of a trial. Its a pretty poor idea now though compared to BEV.
I’ve driven one at an exhibition here in Stuttgart. The looks are somewhat challenging but it was very comfortable and had plenty of toys. It was very smooth to drive and had no problems on the autobahn. I asked the sales guy where the nearest hydrogen filling station was, he told me Berlin! Maybe they have more filling station now but without the infrastructure it will never be viable.
Hydrogen is just another type of EV battery. And a pretty crappy one at that. Unstable, difficult and expensive to produce, transport, and store, and rendered obsolete by imminent advances in solid state batteries and supercapacitors.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/11/hydrogen-fuel...
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/11/hydrogen-fuel...
LG9k said:
IIRC Japan (which tends to go its own way with these things ad they were right about diesel) is still very much behind Hydrogen. Large scale investments all over the place, there. Or have they changed tack?
They seem to be quietly moving over to EV tech. The thing was that Toyota didn't see the EV coming and had invested horrendous amounts of money in to hydrogen for about 15 years. They sort of had to produce something for all that investment.jjwilde said:
They seem to be quietly moving over to EV tech. The thing was that Toyota didn't see the EV coming and had invested horrendous amounts of money in to hydrogen for about 15 years. They sort of had to produce something for all that investment.
Found this from May this year:https://japantoday.com/category/tech/power-of-choi...
LG9k said:
Found this from May this year:
https://japantoday.com/category/tech/power-of-choi...
And that article ends with 'We have said in the past that we would increase production volume of our hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle, the Mirai, from about 3,000 vehicles per year until 2020 to about 30,000 vehicles per year in the 2020s,'https://japantoday.com/category/tech/power-of-choi...
In other words they know the jig is up and it's always going to be a niche oddball vehicle with crazy refuelling/storage problems.
jjwilde said:
And that article ends with 'We have said in the past that we would increase production volume of our hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle, the Mirai, from about 3,000 vehicles per year until 2020 to about 30,000 vehicles per year in the 2020s,'
In other words they know the jig is up and it's always going to be a niche oddball vehicle with crazy refuelling/storage problems.
Not quite sure why you're trying to start an argument?In other words they know the jig is up and it's always going to be a niche oddball vehicle with crazy refuelling/storage problems.
Anyway, it seems they have (or will have) a reasonably good network of fuelling stations in Japan and are going ahead with things in their own insular way, it's quite interesting to watch.
So from the article referenced, GM, Toyota, Honda and Nissan think hydrogen is worth pursuing. Not forgetting Hyundai/Kia and various bus and train manufacturers, but a couple of blokes on an internet forum says "Oh no it isn't" whilst offering no reasons whatsoever. OK you've convinced me.
Andy
Andy
andyalan10 said:
So from the article referenced, GM, Toyota, Honda and Nissan think hydrogen is worth pursuing. Not forgetting Hyundai/Kia and various bus and train manufacturers, but a couple of blokes on an internet forum says "Oh no it isn't" whilst offering no reasons whatsoever. OK you've convinced me.
Andy
Hydrogen is an energy store, not a fuel (so its battery), with the added benefit of being very very inefficient. If you think BEV's will impact the grid, imagine something that needs 3x the energyAndy
Hydrogen has to be stored at massive pressures (700 bar/10000 psi).
It leaks out of everything, and it's very flammable.
It degrades metals it comes into contact with.
Fuel cells are crap at delivering sudden peaks in power, so you also need batteries.
Nobody has been able to build one that's commercially viable (last time I checked the cost to build was over 100k per car)
I could keep going but those alone shows it's a dead end.
andyalan10 said:
So from the article referenced, GM, Toyota, Honda and Nissan think hydrogen is worth pursuing. Not forgetting Hyundai/Kia and various bus and train manufacturers, but a couple of blokes on an internet forum says "Oh no it isn't" whilst offering no reasons whatsoever. OK you've convinced me.
Andy
I agree, and if this small Welsh company had the mega bucks of certain Silicon valley then maybe just maybe we would have a UK Hydrogen vehicle out there right now https://www.riversimple.com/the-design-of-the-rasa...Andy
98elise said:
Hydrogen is an energy store, not a fuel (so its battery), with the added benefit of being very very inefficient. If you think BEV's will impact the grid, imagine something that needs 3x the energy
Hydrogen has to be stored at massive pressures (700 bar/10000 psi).
It leaks out of everything, and it's very flammable.
It degrades metals it comes into contact with.
Fuel cells are crap at delivering sudden peaks in power, so you also need batteries.
Nobody has been able to build one that's commercially viable (last time I checked the cost to build was over 100k per car)
I could keep going but those alone shows it's a dead end.
Maybe your right maybe your not, but its great to see there are some willing to give it a go. Edited to say, no batteries involved just capacitors Hydrogen has to be stored at massive pressures (700 bar/10000 psi).
It leaks out of everything, and it's very flammable.
It degrades metals it comes into contact with.
Fuel cells are crap at delivering sudden peaks in power, so you also need batteries.
Nobody has been able to build one that's commercially viable (last time I checked the cost to build was over 100k per car)
I could keep going but those alone shows it's a dead end.
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